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Criteria for judging a saddle:
1. comfort 2. there is no 2, if it isn't comfortable, I don't really care how long it lasts. |
Originally Posted by Road Fan
(Post 12958927)
What does how far you can twist a saddle by hand have to do with how well it will perform when used as intended?
Companies sometimes design products to accommodate or withstand misuse. If that design greatly increases the cost or compromises performance, I think they would draw the line at that point, and attempt to tell teh buyer of a new saddle, "do not misuse this product." |
I actually got one of these on the way, a brand new one with Ti rails. Wanted to try something new, it has just been Brooks after Brooks for years with a smattering of Fujitas.
I did a lot of research, liked what I found. The only negative comment that seems to crop up with any regularity is that the screws can start working loose. This is pretty trivial, the recommend remedy is a dot of blue loctite. One thing that I really like is that it apparently really is waterproof, as in riding for miles through a deluge, not just a sprinkle. Some rider reports were very positive on this point. Man, I just hate it when I get caught out without a cover far from home w/out cover and have to start scrounging plastic shopping bags. The other thing that is neat (and bothersome to any), is that it is a departure from rigid adherence to dogma. It is authentically french in that it was designed by a real French/European guy, not Americans placing orders with Asian factories to make parts that sorta look like french parts from 30 or 40 years ago. And like a lot of contemporary European designs often are, this one is jarring at first to our American eyes. It is also authentically European in that swoon worthy price. Whether the saddles are good or not, I think Berthoud deserves a lot of credit for trying to move the leather saddle forward. It may ultimately be a failed attempt, but they are trying, not just stamping their name on the same saddles with laminate underside everyone else is hawking. Of course, the argument against that, and a particularly strong one on a C&V forum, is why depart from the proven stuff of the past. Who knows, but I'm glad we have the choice. Virtually all the reports I have read have balance out on the positive. Not all of them were blindly enthusiastic, there is a distinct set of people, a minority but a pattern, who seem to find them uncomfortable. |
I do think it's pretty freakin lame that such an expensive seat comes with plastic main parts, and certainly makes me question the cost, but being able to pop the rails out of them hardly makes it crap.
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Originally Posted by 3speed
(Post 12965370)
I do think it's pretty freakin lame that such an expensive seat comes with plastic main parts, and certainly makes me question the cost, but being able to pop the rails out of them hardly makes it crap.
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Bad luck? Friends of mine defend G.B saddles to the last penny. I would think former owner abused it or it is a monday speciment.
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I'm still waiting for the video and photos of the alleged poorly designed saddle ....
Think I should hold my breath and wait? Scott |
I eagerly await the "Selle Italia saddles are Junk!" thread.
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Originally Posted by bbattle
(Post 12965546)
I eagerly await the "Selle Italia saddles are Junk!" thread.
Beautiful! :lol: |
Wow. Not sure what to say about this thread.
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How about the Fujita Saddles are incorrigible thread?
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Originally Posted by robatsu
(Post 12965631)
How about the Fujita Saddles are incorrigible thread?
Scott |
Originally Posted by Scottryder
(Post 12965740)
Ah yes, they blow like the divine wind!
Scott |
Hey every part can be replaced , (#21), that alone has merit.
when a Brooks saddle rail fatigues and breaks , its a real PIA to replace and re use the leather upper that you finally got broken in just right.. in the replacement frame .. maybe if the end pieces had visible carbon fibers It would make a fancier look.. |
Originally Posted by 3speed
(Post 12965370)
I do think it's pretty freakin lame that such an expensive seat comes with plastic main parts, and certainly makes me question the cost, but being able to pop the rails out of them hardly makes it crap.
Seriously, I would judge it on comfort, longevity and aesthetics. I don't know about the first two, but I find no fault with how that saddle looks. I would fall in with the others who have expressed the sentiment that we now have another option for a leather saddle, one that seems to have some thought behind it. If my brooks saddles didn't last so long, I'd be trying one of these out...... |
Despite the OP's post, I think I'm really falling in love with the Berthoud saddles!:love:
I never could get myself to like Brooks because of their very eccletic elements and the anvilesque weights, but the modern and traditional mix on the Berthouds, I find really attractive and even more the longer I stare at the ones for sale at ebay. The black racing "Galibier" model with the Ti rails is buckling my knees!:love::love: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44...udGalibier.jpg Someone please give me 250 bucks quick!!:eek: My Vitus Carbone can use a nice French saddle and Ideales and Reydels just don't cut it for me!:rolleyes: Chombi |
Originally Posted by Chombi
(Post 12966128)
Despite the OP's post, I think I'm really falling in love with the Berthoud saddles!:love:
I never could get myself to like Brooks because of their very eccletic elements and the anvilesque weights, but the modern and traditional mix on the Berthouds, I find really attractive and even more the longer I stare at the ones for sale at ebay. The black racing "Galibier" model with the Ti rails is buckling my knees!:love::love: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44...udGalibier.jpg Someone please give me 250 bucks quick!!:eek: My Vitus Carbone can use a nice French saddle and Ideales and Reydels just don't cut it for me!:rolleyes: Chombi I think once the saddle is properly bolted to a post, the issues may vanish with a little break-in period.. Whadda ya say OP? Perhaps this Berthoud fella knows something? Carbon fiber is not the best material for the job in many cases. Today it's just a name that means very little. |
Can you buy the separate parts at the moment? How much do the individual replacement parts cost? I am being sincere.
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BUMP! Still waiting on the video for this.......
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oh you pot stirrer!
Asking for someone to give specific details to substantiate their claim, what is wrong with you?? |
Yeah. Seriously, Brian. Why would someone write something on the internet for everyone to see if they hadn't taken all things into consideration. You need a video? So cynical.
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Originally Posted by -holiday76
(Post 12983463)
oh you pot stirrer!
Asking for someone to give specific details to substantiate their claim, what is wrong with you?? |
Originally Posted by SoreFeet
(Post 12957333)
I got my Berthoud from ebay...seller claimed like new, 30 miles of use. To my dismay the hide was very dried out. I treated with Obenhaufs. It's better now. The saddle rail design is greatly inferior to Brooks.
The Berthoud saddle has rails that simply press fit into a plastic rear shell. This allows the rails to easily twist and flex. In fact I was curious to see how far I could twist it by hand...And guess what folks? The rail popped out of the saddle. I had to loosen the tension bolt to be able to pop the rail back in place. Berthoud saddles allow replaceable rails, but what good is this design if it flawed in the first place? The rails are not secure...unless you put tension bolt under higher pressure the rails will be sloppy and have oodles of play. So the saddle has basically has to be under full tension for the rails to be secure and tight. But even under increased tension the rails are still sloppy. Scouring the net I found a similar complaint. As angry as I am with my current Brooks saddle, this Berthoud is even worse. I'm going to be the first to give Berthoud bad press. The saddle flat out sucks. The hide is not all that thicker compared to a Brooks pro. The saddle nose design that claims to be improved over other leather saddle makers is not true. The tension bolt of the Berthoud must be extremely tight or else the rails will be flexy and twist. The Berthoud saddle is not a tensioned leather saddle, it is simple a slab of leather bolted to a half plastic shell. By not tensioning the leather saddle directly to a frame, you lose the benefit of riding a tensioned leather saddle. Another design flaw I see in the Berthoud saddle is that they don't leave enough hide for lacing. So when the saddle gets to be a little supple, it can go straight into the trash heap where it belongs. This is a real warning to those considering a Berthoud. I'm wondering if Berthoud will offer any service. We'll wait and see. Every thread you start = junk information |
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd
(Post 12983546)
Yeah. Seriously, Brian. Why would someone write something on the internet for everyone to see if they hadn't taken all things into consideration. You need a video? So cynical.
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