Need shellac, have varnish!
 

Hi, just wanted to know whether I should make a trip to the store for some amber shellac or can I just use varnish/polyurethane. In concept it seems similar but I don't know how it is in the long run. =7

I'd get the shellac. Different properties; faster dry time.

I brought this subject up in another thread. Shellac is a natural substance secreted from an insect, the best shellac is mixed fresh from flakes using alcohol. Shellac can always be re-dissolved with alcohol and it is not known to be a very durable finish, but it dries fast and is easy to use and can be completely non-toxic when dry. It is actually used to give gloss to food products. It was also one of the only choices back in the day as a finish.

Lacquer was designed as a synthetic shellac, it has a long shelf life and it dries fast and is more durable than shellac. Dye can be added to lacquer to make it any color.

Polyurethane is basically liquid plastic. It is very durable but takes longer to dry. I suppose it could be difficult to remove due to it's adhesion and flexibility.

I see no reason that shellac should be the product of choice for sealing bar tape, I think it's tradition more than anything. Lacquer should work just as well, if not better and dries fast. The ultimate finish should be polyurethane as it's the most UV, moisture resistant and flexible of the three finishes, it just takes longer to dry.

I haven't tested any of these finishes on bar tape but have used all of them extensively to finish furniture.

Here is a really good reason: besides the fact that shellac holds up well for this purpose anyhow, it can be dissolved with alcohol. (use denatured) Which means that it you get it anywhere else on accident, such as on the brake levers or if it drips down onto you wheels, or invariably seeps onto the handlebar, you can just wiped a bit of alcohol onto the spot and then wipe it with a clean cloth and your unwanted shellac is no longer present.

This is quite true. However, catch it before it dries and yes, it's easy. Well dried shellac is quite stable and pretty difficult to remove. OP; that Bullseye shellac, clear or amber, comes in a tiny can, quite enough for a bike or two, in good hardware stores.

Shellac. Period.

Your varnish will work just fine.

I agree, you COULD use varnish, but it will take a lot longer to dry. If you are in no hurry give it a try. I trust the varnish has not been sitting on the shelf for years. Shellac is so much easier and faster.

you guys put bug spit on your handlebars? YUK!

No, bug sh*t!

^ that is even worse!!

Really?! I thought it was made from beetle shells or something. To Wikipedia!

"Shellac is a resin secreted by the female lac bug, on trees in the forests of India and Thailand. It is processed and sold as dry flakes (pictured at right), which are dissolved in ethyl alcohol to make liquid shellac, which is used as a brush-on colorant, food glaze and wood finish." -wikipedia

I think shellackers are winning... and the one argument that I really like (beyond my personal affinity to natural resins) is that I can clean it up lol Not sure what the ultimate color will be but hey, first time for everything right? =7

Lacquer can be removed with lacquer thinner, but that is a more agressive solvent than the alcohol used for shellac, use with care.

If you buy shellac in a can, try to get a fresh can as it has a shelf life as it is a natural product. That is why it's often sold in dry form. If you use old canned shellac it may not dry properly or hold up well.

If you use a water base polyurethane it can be cleaned up with soap and water as long as it hasn't dried.

Would have never thought of that, thanks!

Where and when did the shellac tradition arise? Is the purpose to seal the cotton tape to make it easier to keep clean?

None of the major stores carry it, although Lowes did have a medium size can of clear shellac... I already PM'ed snydermann to see how shellac holds up in woodworking. If well I might get the bigger can or else just wait till I order from VO again for the flakes. I also drove by a random commercial bike shop and got blank stares at the question of shellac... -_-

Aside: where can i just get small tubes of vulcanized rubber cement without anything else? I do have plastic cement... does that work? =P So if they dry so easily what I should do it save the tubes and patch them all at once ...

I hate to see someone pay VO prices for a tiny bag of shellac flakes. PM me if you want a small bag of it. No charge. That is , if orange shellac will do, all I have at the moment in my shop. Not too orange-y. Kind of like amber. Nice color. What color cloth tape are you going over?.

You guys have shellac flakes? And I thought searching for 115 year old spoke nipples was "out there". Making your own shellac from bug poop is off the charts. Thanks for making me feel less nerdy.

That would be awesome! They are going over grey cloth tape (they turned out to be too light for my taste so I'm thinking a darker, brownish color would be better). You think that's achievable with your orange-amber shellac flake? I have 70% isopropyl alcohol, does that work? But I would feel better if this was a trade... I have various seeds if you have a backyard farm... can't think of anything else =P

The orange shellac will turn grey cloth a darker color but, not sure if it will come out dark brown. It ought to look nice though. You trying to match a saddle color? That alcohol should work. Denatured is better but I think isopropyl will work. Seeds? Sure. What have you got? No "farm" but, I'm pretty big on gardening. Small plot.

Shellac may be nerdy for bike guys, but us guitar builders have pounds of the stuff in 5 different varieties.

Your poly varnish will work fine, hold up better in wet conditions, last longer, and will dry overnight.

The more I learn about shellac the more I like it! So I assume this goes for all wood instruments? (violin, etc?) And what are the 5 varieties? Diff bug species, color difference? Does blood really stay red in it as in movie red violin?

Violins get varnish. Blood in varnish? must be Hollywood.

Varieties in shellac are: where it is harvested, what trees the bugs inhabit, what level of processing the shellac gets, from raw seeds to highly dewaxed and bleached, color, from dark to blonde. Raw is the best, but more work for the "polisher".

On a practical note. Shellac repairs easily. Coated bar wrap gets scuffs & little chunks gone. With shellac just wipe it down with alcohol and touch it up or add a coat and it just looks newly done again. It blends well. I use cork and everyone thinks it's leather.

That is beautiful. (the guitar)

Blood is hollywood - The Red Violin to be precise.

Bowed string instruments use either an oil varnish or a spirit varnish. My viola (I'm a musician) has a nice soft lustre oil varnish.

I'm trying to get some amber shellac too - my local store only carries clear. I'm hoping Home Despot will be able to help me out.

Apparently, you should make sure it's FRESH! So check the can date or use dry flakes (just learned this) and from reading other threads, www.shellac.net has good variety as well as prices. But why is the use of shellac instrument specific? Just how history turned out or has a specific influence on the instruments themselves...?

I hear some paint stores may carry it...at the very least I would assume they carry the premixed kind. I get by with it, but I keep meaning to check a nearby woodworking store. I am lucky to have a local place called Handyman (they are part of the True Value Retail Co-op) that seems to have what I need. I really like that they sell nuts, bolts, and a ton of other small bits like that in single units, so I leave paying with pocket change instead of buying 3 boxes of different hex bolts that I only need one of.

I am in the middle of a project of making my own cotton tape, and the next iteration should be final, so I am going to look at that wood store to see if I can't find flakes.

EDIT: D. Newton how long have you been doing that? Do you just finish or are you a Luthier? It looks good, I have been wanting to learn french polishing.

Yes, I'm a guitar builder, since '75. That is a ukulele I'm showing there, but you can see the little french polish pad and an oil dropper as well as the shellac in the bottle.
I changed over to french polishing when nitrocellulose lacquer started messing with my brain, it is nasty stuff, as well as other finishes. Shellac is non-toxic, but I wear gloves because of the denatured alcohol.
You can read on-line about french polish, google "milburn french polish tutorial" but it really helps to have some one-on-one with a teacher.
French polish finish is deceptively simple, but an instrument finish is a steep learning curve.