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Whats wrong with the Helicomatic hub?

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Old 10-06-11 | 08:01 AM
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Whats wrong with the Helicomatic hub?

I keep hearing that these are problematic. Well, now I'm riding one all over the place, and it does feel and sound a little clunky, but it works ok. Will it leave me stranded at the worst moment? Whats so bad about them?
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:10 AM
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As I understand, the biggest problem is that they weren't widely adopted and require different tools.

I also recall reading something about the drive-side bearings being slightly smaller and thus slightly less durable than on a normal freewheel hub.
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:14 AM
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Well, others may have different experiences with them. Pain #1: they only accept Helicomatic freewheels, which you can only get on ebay. Pain #2: They don't last very long, and when they crap out you need a special tool to remove them. I could probably handle Pain #1 and 2, but here is my experience:

Last year I was hammering up a steep hill in a fairly high gear when suddenly and without warning my Helicomatic freewheel said "Non!" and decided to freewheel forward instead. My pedal zipped around at an astonishing speed and cut right through my ankle, all the way to the bone. I looked down at my leg and in addition to all the grease and gore I could see a little dangling achilles tendon, like a fishing line, and the chipped bone. It took half an hour for the doctor in emergency using what looked like a pot-scrubber to clean all the grease out of the wound, and during that half hour I came up with all kinds of names for the Helicomatic system that I can't reprint here. So yeah, they freakin' suck, that's the problem with them. Just my opinion, of course.
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by devinfan
Well, others may have different experiences with them. Pain #1: they only accept Helicomatic freewheels, which you can only get on ebay. Pain #2: They don't last very long, and when they crap out you need a special tool to remove them. I could probably handle Pain #1 and 2, but here is my experience:

Last year I was hammering up a steep hill in a fairly high gear when suddenly and without warning my Helicomatic freewheel said "Non!" and decided to freewheel forward instead. My pedal zipped around at an astonishing speed and cut right through my ankle, all the way to the bone. I looked down at my leg and in addition to all the grease and gore I could see a little dangling achilles tendon, like a fishing line, and the chipped bone. It took half an hour for the doctor in emergency using what looked like a pot-scrubber to clean all the grease out of the wound, and during that half hour I came up with all kinds of names for the Helicomatic system that I can't reprint here. So yeah, they freakin' suck, that's the problem with them. Just my opinion, of course.
Well thats discouraging, to say the least.
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:20 AM
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The idea was to make it easier to remove your fw on the road to replace a broken drive side spoke. The little tool was carry easy. 'Hen's teeth' parts as of today. I also read the bit on smaller drive side bearings/which increased the odds on ds spoke breakage as well as faster wear. Best case scenario is finding one on a garage queen destined for a yard sale. LOL I too am wondering if it will lock up or what-when it goes. Not an appealing thought.
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by devinfan
Well, others may have different experiences with them. Pain #1: they only accept Helicomatic freewheels, which you can only get on ebay. Pain #2: They don't last very long, and when they crap out you need a special tool to remove them. I could probably handle Pain #1 and 2, but here is my experience:

Last year I was hammering up a steep hill in a fairly high gear when suddenly and without warning my Helicomatic freewheel said "Non!" and decided to freewheel forward instead. My pedal zipped around at an astonishing speed and cut right through my ankle, all the way to the bone. I looked down at my leg and in addition to all the grease and gore I could see a little dangling achilles tendon, like a fishing line, and the chipped bone. It took half an hour for the doctor in emergency using what looked like a pot-scrubber to clean all the grease out of the wound, and during that half hour I came up with all kinds of names for the Helicomatic system that I can't reprint here. So yeah, they freakin' suck, that's the problem with them. Just my opinion, of course.
WTF? What kind of pedals were these?
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:25 AM
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Sorry, didn't mean to be discouraging, but that's what happened. The good news is it's an easy fix: just switch out the rear wheel with something better and easier to work with. Is it a six speed freewheel with 126 spacing? If it is you'll find wheels like that are readily available. Also there's nothing wrong with the front hub, it's just the rear.
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mazdaspeed
WTF? What kind of pedals were these?
LOL they are MKS Touring Lite. I actually love them and believe it or not am still riding them. i was trying to upload a picture of them, but it wasn't working from the computer I'm on. When you see them it will make sense.
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:29 AM
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Anyway I don't know if this helps but... I once had a bike that had a helicomatic rear hub. It worked perfectly fine while I used it, but I did a bunch of research and found nothing but horror stories so I ditched it before it broke. YMMV as they say.
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Old 10-06-11 | 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by devinfan
Sorry, didn't mean to be discouraging, but that's what happened. The good news is it's an easy fix: just switch out the rear wheel with something better and easier to work with. Is it a six speed freewheel with 126 spacing? If it is you'll find wheels like that are readily available. Also there's nothing wrong with the front hub, it's just the rear.
Thats the absolute worst: catastrophic failure. I can handle noisy and clunky. But deadly? Not so much.
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And the unmitigated gaul of announcing your doom in French...!
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Old 10-06-11 | 09:01 AM
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Conceptually ahead of its time, The Helicomatic hub was a clever design sunk by substandard execution. Most failures are not nearly as gore-filled as devinfan's, but if a hub shoots out bearings or breaks an axle in the middle of a long ride, it'll ruin your day.
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Old 10-06-11 | 09:33 AM
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OK, while we're talking individual experiences: I've run Helicomatic on five different bikes over the past six years, currently have the setup on two bikes in the stable (my Trek 460, and the purple Rossin). I find the hubs work well, the worst problem I've had in that time is one (repeat, one) drive side spoke break while riding. Each of the bikes so equipped have put on 3-400 miles per year, the Trek currently has just shy of 2000 miles on it. With the set of hubs I originally built it with.

I love having the ability to carry a corncob (in a baggie, of course) in a pocket when I'm riding hilly country, be able to swap over on the side of the road when I'm going to be riding in the flats (say, Ashland, VA), then swap back to the wide range cluster for the hilly ride back home. I've currently got six spare clusters on the parts shelf at the shop, and four spare rear hubs - most of which will probably get built sometime in the future.

So far, so good. And I continue to love them. And will happily take any discards from anyone who's convinced they're junk.
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Old 10-06-11 | 09:39 AM
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I like the Helicomatic and find it to be a smooth running hub. The availability of spares and FW's however, is a big detriment, and though I have never had an issue with one, I would not rely on one for a long haul. Unfortunately for Maillard , this is exactly how many of them ended up being used - installed on touring Treks and the like, heavily loaded.

I think a few design modifications could have made them more robust and would have changed history.
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Old 10-06-11 | 09:42 AM
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Maillard, not Mavic.
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Old 10-06-11 | 09:47 AM
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See? Some people love them. I'm sure there are stories of catastrophic failure for lots of components out there, It's just the first time it's happened to me. Also, it might not have been so serious had I not been rockin' these at the time:
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Old 10-06-11 | 09:54 AM
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Helicomatic was a great idea that was poorly executed... like SB once said, if the hub has been designed properly it would not have been as prone to breaking drive side spokes and the excellent design of the cassette and tool would have not been needed as often.

They seem to hold up well under light use but for loaded touring they did not find a lot of favour.

Take a modern cassette hub with a decent build and spoke breakage should not be much of a worry.
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Old 10-06-11 | 09:57 AM
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I think the hubs get a bad rap. "They require a special tool"...as do ANY freewheel hubs, the difference is that the Heliocromatic ones are easier to remove.

The only flaw with them, besides becoming rather scarse, is that the drive-side hub bearings were not as robust as they should have been. If you have one, and you know this, and you take care of them, they are usually fine. If you want to ride them 5000 miles through the rain and grit without any grease, you will be disapointed.

If you have a Heliocromatic hub, and you want to keep using it, start a small collection of spare parts. When they show up at bike co-ops, bike swaps, etc, people are all too eager to get rid of them. No different that if you have an affinity for other strange things like Shimano AX, any Suntour index shifting, or French anything.
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Old 10-06-11 | 10:07 AM
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Good points, except when I say "special" I mean when you're on the road and have a problem, don't expect the nearest bike store to have it, whereas most other freewheels won't present a problem. Also with every other hub you can use a wide variety of freewheels, depending on the threading. Also there's the whole chopping my leg in half thing.
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Old 10-06-11 | 10:14 AM
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Hmm. Interesting comments. I guess I'll keep riding mine until a better wheel comes along, or until (if) I load the bike up for touring.
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Old 10-06-11 | 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by aixaix
............. a clever design sunk by substandard execution.......
..........Some may consider that as the French national design philosophy........

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Old 10-06-11 | 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by devinfan
Well, others may have different experiences with them. Pain #1: they only accept Helicomatic freewheels, which you can only get on ebay. Pain #2: They don't last very long, and when they crap out you need a special tool to remove them. I could probably handle Pain #1 and 2, but here is my experience:

Last year I was hammering up a steep hill in a fairly high gear when suddenly and without warning my Helicomatic freewheel said "Non!" and decided to freewheel forward instead. My pedal zipped around at an astonishing speed and cut right through my ankle, all the way to the bone. I looked down at my leg and in addition to all the grease and gore I could see a little dangling achilles tendon, like a fishing line, and the chipped bone. It took half an hour for the doctor in emergency using what looked like a pot-scrubber to clean all the grease out of the wound, and during that half hour I came up with all kinds of names for the Helicomatic system that I can't reprint here. So yeah, they freakin' suck, that's the problem with them. Just my opinion, of course.
Sorry to hear that horrific tale. Have you healed up OK?
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Old 10-06-11 | 01:51 PM
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Some may consider that as the French national design philosophy
Au contraire, M. Chombi! The French have produced some extraordinarily innovative & well-built devices: Citroen gave us the first effective front-wheel drive monococque in 1937 (Traction Avant: approximately 750,000 built from 1937-1956), over twenty years before the first Mini, which is usually given credit for these things; Mavic & Simplex have both produced cutting-edge, competitive and durable bicycle parts; Alex Singer's design and craftsmanship are very fine, despite being quirky and dependent on braze-ons.

And let's not get onto cooking. Or wine. Or art. Or literature. Or Bernard Carre.
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Old 10-06-11 | 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote
Sorry to hear that horrific tale. Have you healed up OK?
Thanks for asking - yeah I have. It's a funny story anyway. Now the back of my leg is completely numb, but I guess that might come in handy for party tricks if I wanted to stick a pin it or something.
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Old 10-06-11 | 02:18 PM
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I have a Helicomatic 13-25 on my Trek 460 as well. I have been looking for a new wheel, while riding this one into the ground. Perhaps I will just build the new one from scratch.

There was a post in another Helicomatic thread about the existance of a beefier second version of these freewheels that was released, but never caught on due to the damaged reputation.

Your story is very unfortunate. At the same time it valuable learning experience for the rest of us.

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Old 10-06-11 | 02:24 PM
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What design characteristic makes them prone to breaking drive side spokes? (if in fact they are more prone to it)
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