Veloh

https://www.bicycling.com/news/featur...n-job?page=0,0

Henry III

Campy only here on my four bikes. My Salsa Vaya came with Sram Apex so I do have one bike that's not Campy. I wouldn't mind changing it over to the new CX group but then I'd have to change my hubs, and then try to find a 135 spaced campy hub with disc mounts.

RoboIsGod

This was posted in the roadie forum recently, good read.

embankmentlb

Sounds like Campy is still relying on hype instead of solving their real problems. Cool company, I wish them the best of luck.

iab

Huh? How so?

Henry III

They went through this before and still came back back in the 80's. Maybe they'll be the next name on Pacific's list below Cannondale, Mongoose, GT and Schwinn. lol. But I highly doubt it. lol.

embankmentlb

Campagnolo has the same problem General Motors has. Like GM they make some outstanding high end products but their entry level products are crap or maybe just perceived to be crap. They need to address this.
Shimano has a reputation like Toyota. A Corolla is as reliable as a Tundra.
The person that buys his first bike with Sora will most likely buy his second bike with Ultegra & I can't blame them. Why take the chance to go Campy?

jr59

I can't find the link right now, but somewhere there is one that states both Campy factories are working at over 95%.

Campy will never be a lower end product line. They don't want that trade, why should they?

They are a niche company and always have been. As long as they are selling all they make, why should they try to make inroads into the lower end/ OEM market?

RobbieTunes

I found the article to be well-written, unbiased, and an excellent read (almost a side plug for SRAM).

I completely understand the reasons why I prefer Campagnolo these days, I just can't articulate them well.
I just blame it on bigbossman. The stuff has always looked better, overall, in my opinion, and now that it works as well and costs equal or less, I choose it.

When you consider the actual costs involved in employing an Italian worker, it's amazing Campagnolo is even in business.

The $42000/yr salary is really nothing. To hire a $15000/yr worker in Italy, you have to pay the government $38000/yr more to satisfy the entitlement obligations. Despite this, Italians are stubbornly independent risk-takers in their business decisions. They keep pressing on. I like that.

I've taken advantage of the Euro a couple of times over the years to buy Campy groups cheaper than I can buy Shimano or SRAM. As I use the equipment, I tend to like it and point to it for my future needs. I can't see myself buying a new 10sp Shimano or SRAM group.

Some of my bikes just didn't match up well with Campagnolo stuff, or I thought so at the time I had them.
If Campagnolo had made a ton of English BB's over the years, and priced them competitively, I'd likely have more of the used stuff on my rebuilds. Shops I used didn't regularly stock Campy, and what they did was limited and expensive. I guess you could say I'm one of the customers Campy couldn't get to, and who couldn't get to Campy. The internet has made Campy so much more available than it ever was, and I plan to take advantage of that.

And of course, this is BF C&V. A lot of us just like being different.

The main thing I got from the article was a new subscription. Reading it convinced me to buy one.

WNG

A most excellent article, thanks for the link!

I don't think Campy is like GM. There's no aura, or fanaticism for most of their products. They are also at one time, produced the highest annual production/sales numbers.

A more comparable company would be Harley Davidson. One that also had a checkered past, bounced back and holds a position of most desired product in their industry. Expensive, exclusive, niche, fanatic following, and well-marketed. But like the article's reference to the lawsuit to protect a 'reputation', Harley tried similar at their height, by claiming the sound of their exhaust should be patented. The sound of a V-twin is theirs and theirs alone by reputation.

Like so many of such high-end companies, it will depend on how well they can keep their reputations and mystique, to stay alive. Once the buying public in that segment dies out, no one cares.
It's interesting to read how low the USA market is towards their annual sales. I got the feeling that execs have decided to not focus on the USA market, perhaps thinking it's a lost cause due to our population's disposable/cheap/low-quality mentality. Could also be that Lance and Shimano and now SRAM is too big an image to tackle. But they once arrogantly dismissed this market before, when mountain bikes were invented here, and it didn't turn out to be a local fad.

KonAaron Snake 

I don't believe your analogy works on any level, nor do I think you have anything even aoproaching a valid point. Campy's issue isn't rep, it's availability and marketing. Their reputation among those who know what it is remains excellent. The issue is they don't have the marketing budgets and sponsorships. They aren't hyped - that's the problem.

bigbossman 

Why take the chance and NOT go with Campagnolo? Sure - Shimano works ok, but it is A) ugly, B) not rebuildable, C) does not shift as smoothly, D) has a a poorer fit and finish, E) is not really any cheaper than Campagnolo, F) not nearly as ergonomic, G) has a clunky two lever shifting design, .... ........ that's enough for now.

Also, I've never seen a current or even relatively current (say, 1996 or so) Campagnolo "entry level" product that was crap. Name one, please.

Sora and Tiagra on the other hand. That's crap. Hell - Shimano didn't even have any front end shifting trim (let alone decent trim) on any of the lower end stuff for the longest time.

RobbieTunes

Tiagra's come a long way, but I agree with bigbossman on some points, and as far as the OP goes, excellent article and I think Campagnolo will be around a while. I like the idea that their workers take personal responsibility. I remember when America was like that.

rootboy 

10-4. It may be a somewhat archaic business model, but I like that. Beautiful kinetic sculpture, in the form of bicycle parts.

repechage

I think the article was not very well researched.

It avoids a few things, like Valentino was the manager of the C Record. And that WAS style over function.

Campagnolo was often an innovator, but not always, Valentino was too young to know that Dad had to buy the patents to the parallelogram derailleur, to get the Gran Sport done to replace the lever style shifters. Other than that they were loathe to buy patent rights, Suntour, and Look for some examples, Suntour's finally ran out, and Campagnolo finally had to buy in to the Look pedal design for a time. SGR just was not the answer, it was hubris.

Makes no mention of Fulcrum. That is potentially a significant brand and Asian source for components both current and future, (labor). And a way to get spec'd on a Shimano'ed bike.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan and almost all I have is Campagnolo.

I am concerned about the third generation of management, Gordon Gecko was right.

thirdgenbird

ive tried the shimano thing but am now full camagnolo. even my single speed cross bike is predominately campy.

have you tried hope hubs? i know i have seen on of their hubs with 135mm spacing and a campy splines. i have also seen one of their hubs with 130mm spacing, disc mounts, and campy splines. if they dont market what you need a conversion may be possible.

you could also go the shiftmate route.

embankmentlb

Typical Bicycling fluff piece.

iab

Wrong analogy. Apple versus Dell would be closer but not quite.

In product development there is a short view and a long view. Short view is about cutting costs and holding large marketshare with low price but low margin. As we are now seeing with reshoring, that can be a very dangerous position to take. Once costs can no longer go down, margin becomes even thinner. It's a tough spot for the long term. Long view is is to generate revenue by innovation. You will always attract the 15% early adopters. You will also gain marketshare by redefining it with your innovation. If you include the ipad, Apple holds the largest marketshare for personal computers. Unthinkable only 5 years ago.

The problem with Campagnolo is that the bicycle industry is so mature, there maybe isn't much room for innovation going forward. They were also hit a bit by SRAM taking a bit of their innovation crown. But my crystal ball sucks as I have yet to hit the lotto. There may be a great deal of innovation remaining and if there is, I'd bet on Campagnolo over Shimano in the long run unless Shimano really changes their tune.

iab

BTW, I don't know if you noticed, Toyota has hit the crapper. Hard.

jan nikolajsen 

Since this thread has been trolled by embankmentlb's simplistic and opinionated statements, let me add mine:

SRAM is crap. Shimano is okay but Campy is better - and that article was good reading.

thirdgenbird

gioscinelli 

This is what Campy is all about! "Campagnolo's designers strove for elegance in the engineering sense of the word: Finding the simplest, lightest, most efficient solution to the problem of human-powered propulsion." Bicycling Magazine quote. I know that the components are mechanical with functionality, but the finish and the beauty is to me the esthetic that counts. Super Record, Nuovo Record, Croce D'aune, Record C are gorgeous to appreciate for something that is just to get around. The current crop of carbon components are better then the competition. My Gios's, Cinelli and Lemond are all Campy and the parts work like a Swiss watch! I've said this before "when Campy breaks in others break down".

toytech

You do know the whole unintended acceleration thing never really occurred, right? The media took off with it and had all the facts wrong. I will say they have slipped a bit as of late with more recalls, but Toyota has always been proactive in that area.
Climbs off of 25 year Toyota/Lexus tech soapbox..BTW Lexus is still #1
Back on topic, Campy rules!

champion city

There are some DT swiss hubs with this option - ANY and I do mean any, DT hub will accept any DT swiss freehub body, and they do make a campagnolo model. I was looking into this myself. I saw hope as an option and one other company has begun to offer this, but it escapes me who right now.

Campag these days seems to be reactive, not proactive, although going to 11-speed was a good move. Their difficult availability in North America hurts them, as well as the fact that they don't have many bikes in our market that come specced with campy equipment. A previous poster mentioned that a Tiagra or Sora user will likely buy Ultegra, and I have to agree. The 'beginner' bike with campy equipment is hard to come by.

RobbieTunes

I considered the article to be about a visit and interview, with a little background. It affirmed some of my assumptions about Campy, and is similar to an article I once read about the Eddy Merckx-Pinarello cooperation. I rarely read page after page of a bike magazine article (while I'm waiting for my wife in Books A Million). I just wonder if, as our Edmonton friend says, more bikes came spec'd with Campy, or at least offered so, what would be the result? There is a waiting list, of sorts, now, for Campy groups at ribble and PBK.

Beginning with Sora or Tiagra probably does yield an upgrade later on. Ford did that with ******* and Tempos, because the research showed that very low margins on these vehicles helped sell bigger Fords to the same buyers over 75% of the time.

Campy kind of says, to me, "if you take the risk and spend the money, we think you'll be glad you did" on components, but maybe in a more confident/arrogant way, tending towards "we think you'll be glad you did" with a little "this is our product, take it or leave it" mixed in. I did, they were right, I'll take it.

I'm about to move a relative/friend into 8-sp Ergo. He prefers Campy because it's Campy and that gives him cred with his crowd. He is not a fan of the finicky Syncro. My guess is that riding Ergo will sway him from "having it because it's Campy" to using it because it's excellent. My guess is also that he'll be asking me to upgrade the same bike to 10sp Campy less than a year from now.

I don't consider Campagnolo all that innovative, but I consider it well-done, reliable, and I do l like Italian curvy beauty.