ebay update
12-04-11 | 02:37 PM
#51
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 17
That post didn't actually have much to do with eBay, but I'll assume you had a logical reason for responding the way you did and will respond as though it was made to one of the posts that was about eBay.
You see this incredibly silly and generic answer anytime someone discusses anything. It's really quite ignorant actually, but I guess it beats coming up with an argument, or having to think critically.
"I don't like Government policy xxx"
"Why don't you leave the country?"
Obviously people use eBay and tolerate it because that's where the money is and they have the wider audience, just as people used monopolistic railroads because that's what went cross country. I explicitly stated I have no problem with eBay's fees, or even policies at an individual level. My issue is with their integration with Craigslist and Paypal, which extend a monopoly that make it more difficult to use other sources and give them a very anti-consumer, heavy handed approach to their customers. Policies like this are why we have anti-trust laws. Whether and when we use them is usually political, but I'm making an argument that we SHOULD use these rules for ebay/paypal/Craigslist. If you want to counter that with an argument on why we shouldn't, fine...but saying it ain't gonna change and just live with it isn't an argument, it's just lazy and annoying. It's actually just contrarian and vapid. In fact I do avoid eBay as a seller and actively avoid Paypal, it doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on anti-trust legislation and how it should apply...or on fraudulent and misleading claims made by Paypal regarding FDIC insurance.
As for buyers paying for everything - no. That only works if shipping and fees are pass through expenses, and the reality is that the buyer and the market will dictate the final price, not the costs. The costs might dictate a needed price, but they won't dictate what buyers are willing to pay. Bottom line is no items for sale, no eBay fees. Period. Both are components to the system and eBay is just a successful market.
Thank you for correcting grammar/spelling on a web forum...I'm sure you can find an error in any post I make. I suppose a correction like that also saves time on actually having to think about a response. What's really amazing is that you offer proofreading for free...the person who does it in our office makes about $12/hr. You're short changing yourself.
You see this incredibly silly and generic answer anytime someone discusses anything. It's really quite ignorant actually, but I guess it beats coming up with an argument, or having to think critically.
"I don't like Government policy xxx"
"Why don't you leave the country?"
Obviously people use eBay and tolerate it because that's where the money is and they have the wider audience, just as people used monopolistic railroads because that's what went cross country. I explicitly stated I have no problem with eBay's fees, or even policies at an individual level. My issue is with their integration with Craigslist and Paypal, which extend a monopoly that make it more difficult to use other sources and give them a very anti-consumer, heavy handed approach to their customers. Policies like this are why we have anti-trust laws. Whether and when we use them is usually political, but I'm making an argument that we SHOULD use these rules for ebay/paypal/Craigslist. If you want to counter that with an argument on why we shouldn't, fine...but saying it ain't gonna change and just live with it isn't an argument, it's just lazy and annoying. It's actually just contrarian and vapid. In fact I do avoid eBay as a seller and actively avoid Paypal, it doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on anti-trust legislation and how it should apply...or on fraudulent and misleading claims made by Paypal regarding FDIC insurance.
As for buyers paying for everything - no. That only works if shipping and fees are pass through expenses, and the reality is that the buyer and the market will dictate the final price, not the costs. The costs might dictate a needed price, but they won't dictate what buyers are willing to pay. Bottom line is no items for sale, no eBay fees. Period. Both are components to the system and eBay is just a successful market.
Thank you for correcting grammar/spelling on a web forum...I'm sure you can find an error in any post I make. I suppose a correction like that also saves time on actually having to think about a response. What's really amazing is that you offer proofreading for free...the person who does it in our office makes about $12/hr. You're short changing yourself.
12-04-11 | 02:38 PM
#52
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 17
12-04-11 | 02:45 PM
#53
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 17
My b|tch|ng had more to do with the fact that eBay didn't lift a finger to do anything about the matter, this despite numerous messages, several phone calls and at least certified snail mail letters. The only way any justice was done was by the "virtual posse" we formed to hunt the b@stard down. Believe me, I was happy about the money... 
Rule #1: eBay only cares about eBay.
Rule #2: There is NOOO rule #2 (said in his best Monty Pythoner accent).
Cheers,
12-04-11 | 02:49 PM
#54
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 17
I think the implications behind the complaints is that people feel that ebay has no competition. But that just isn't true. No one is as big, and no one has as big an audience, but that's exactly why they command the highest fees. You can pay less, and you get less. I think they offer a better deal than the local newspaper did before we sold stuff on the intarwebs.
12-04-11 | 03:43 PM
#55
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 14
From: Maidstone, Kent, England
Bikes: 1970 Holdsworth Mistral, Vitus 979, Colnago Primavera, Corratec Hydracarbon, Massi MegaTeam, 1935 Claud Butler Super Velo, Carrera Virtuoso, Viner, 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee, 1954 Holdsworth Typhoon, 1966 Claud Butler Olympic Road, 1982 Claud
I'll take a little less money for an item here on the Forum than sell on Ebay anymore. I mean, it's really not about every last dime that can be squeezed from a sale, at least not for me.
So I lose a worldwide audience; oh well. There's more to life, I think. This stuff will always sell one way or another, no matter what mechanism is used.
I just had my first successful sale on the For Sale or Trade thread and am content with the money involved for the goods that are going out. I also got to have a great conversation with a fellow member who gave me interesting details on what his plans are, and I got to give him some history. That right there was worth the difference in what I could get on Ebay vice BF. Best $12.00 I ever spent
DD
So I lose a worldwide audience; oh well. There's more to life, I think. This stuff will always sell one way or another, no matter what mechanism is used.
I just had my first successful sale on the For Sale or Trade thread and am content with the money involved for the goods that are going out. I also got to have a great conversation with a fellow member who gave me interesting details on what his plans are, and I got to give him some history. That right there was worth the difference in what I could get on Ebay vice BF. Best $12.00 I ever spent
DD
12-04-11 | 04:26 PM
#56
Banned.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,292
Likes: 4,863
From: PAZ
^ True, we have worldwide audience here, but it's just that little bit smaller than the Ebay audience. Not that it bothers me - in fact, I'd rather sell to the passionate people here, even if I take a little less green away from the transaction. I've taken a lot more away from the experiences I've had here than any on Ebay, so that's just one plus for my yearly $12 investment
All my buying/selling/trading experiences here have been super. Getting something to or from someone who wants it or has it should be as easy as we have it on the Forum. Since bike stuff is pretty much all I ever sold on Ebay, the withdrawal symptoms should be nonexistent. I hope
DD
All my buying/selling/trading experiences here have been super. Getting something to or from someone who wants it or has it should be as easy as we have it on the Forum. Since bike stuff is pretty much all I ever sold on Ebay, the withdrawal symptoms should be nonexistent. I hope
DD
12-04-11 | 07:31 PM
#57
Unique Vintage Steel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 287
From: Allen, TX
Bikes: Kirk Frameworks JKS-C, Serotta Nova, Gazelle AB-Frame, Fuji Team Issue, Surly Straggler
I don't have access to the country stats of BikeForums, but I know that when I check the stats for VeloBase, I regularly have hits from a dozen different countries from around the world. I would expect nothing less from this forum (and likely more). eBay will be the gorilla in the room till we, as buyers and sellers, decide to find better solutions.
12-04-11 | 07:55 PM
#58
Thrifty Bill
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,639
Likes: 1,106
From: Mans of NC & SW UT Desert
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
I think ... people feel that ebay has no competition. But that just isn't true. No one is as big, and no one has as big an audience, but that's exactly why they command the highest fees. You can pay less, and you get less. I think they offer a better deal than the local newspaper did before we sold stuff on the intarwebs.
Auctions I have closing tonight with bids:
Child's Tony Lama Boots
Adult Justin Boots
Bolivian Alpaca Sweater
Vintage Cookbook
Irish Merino Wool Sweater
Ski Sweater
Niche Magazines
Before ebay, there was no one stop outlet for such items, where you could get close to market value. I will gladly continue to pay ebay their fees to sell this kind of stuff. Of course, I wish their fees were lower, and their service was more seller friendly.
I typically sell complete bikes locally. I have a backlog of components and higher end framesets that will likely eventually go to ebay when I get around to it....
Last edited by wrk101; 12-04-11 at 08:05 PM.
12-05-11 | 10:04 AM
#59
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,135
Likes: 6,360
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
It's true that there's little or no competition that is like ebay. That's what makes their high fees worth it. If they're not singular, they are close to it. Their service is worth what they get or what you pay for it.
But there are alternatives. You can sell by newspaper, word of mouth, craigslist, other classified ads, OR you could choose not to sell it at all. That is a choice, and it completely avoids the fees.
You can also give your stuff away. That's how I get a lot of my bikes. People with no time, such as when they're moving house or just cleaning up, just want the bikes out of the way. And because people send so much good will this way, I give a lot of them away.
But there are alternatives. You can sell by newspaper, word of mouth, craigslist, other classified ads, OR you could choose not to sell it at all. That is a choice, and it completely avoids the fees.
You can also give your stuff away. That's how I get a lot of my bikes. People with no time, such as when they're moving house or just cleaning up, just want the bikes out of the way. And because people send so much good will this way, I give a lot of them away.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
12-05-11 | 10:20 AM
#60
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 15,946
Likes: 371
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
AGAIN...there were options other than Microsoft, and people could just say "Don't like it? Don't use it!" That didn't stop the application of anti-trust legislation for software bundling. You could go cross country by donkey, walk or not go at all...that didn't stop anti-trust regulation with railroads. etc. These arguments are incredibly simplistic and ignore actual history. The use of Paypal and exclusion of other payment services is a perfect analogy with what happened to Microsoft for software bundling. Why do you think they started accepting other online payment services, but restricted them to ones that mirror Paypal? It's price fixing. In fact, eBay's actions are more extreme and offensive since other programs work on Microsoft. AGAIN...the problem isn't eBay having a large share of the online market - there are plenty of competitors. The problem is their policies and ownership of CL and Paypal, which are anti-consumer and exclusionary to other services.
In the real world anti-trust legislation has been used for these behaviors in the past; in fact for around 100 years. There are more options than "just don't use it". If you want to make an argument on how this is different from other anti-trust regulation, great. We can have an intelligent discussion.
In the real world anti-trust legislation has been used for these behaviors in the past; in fact for around 100 years. There are more options than "just don't use it". If you want to make an argument on how this is different from other anti-trust regulation, great. We can have an intelligent discussion.
12-05-11 | 10:25 AM
#61
Thrifty Bill
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,639
Likes: 1,106
From: Mans of NC & SW UT Desert
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
I agree with Aaron, pretty surprising the government has not looked at the linkage between ebay and paypal.
12-05-11 | 10:40 AM
#62
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 15,946
Likes: 371
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
It's political Bill...this stuff always has been. Microsoft wasn't donating to campaigns...eBay's CEO is heavily connected. There have been a few class action law suits surrounding Paypal which were settled out of court (fairly high settlements actually). Eventually there will be one that doesn't get settled.
12-05-11 | 10:50 AM
#63
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,135
Likes: 6,360
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Is there an anti-trust suit going on with ebay? If so, I was unaware.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
12-05-11 | 10:57 AM
#64
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,394
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From: OZARKS
When I buy I buy at LBS my LBS is 1/3 of eBay if I can I am 90% successful at the LBS now and they treat me well, Then CL then here and VELOBASE MARKET then the various online stores THEN ebay. I am an experienced buyer and seller I will not sell on eBay unless I can't find a local buyer or listed on the aforementioned sites and in that order Thanks for adding another place. That being said I snagged my litespeed from eBay paid in cash. Then the Local bike shops for some parts and the final fit.
12-05-11 | 12:00 PM
#65
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,765
Likes: 3,935
From: Louisville, KY
At this point, ebay seems like a necessary evil. I prefer to sell my stuff here and/or locally, though and that's what I do. Hmm, I must be out of the loop as I wasn't aware ebay had bought CL.
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Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
12-05-11 | 12:33 PM
#66
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,135
Likes: 6,360
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Does craigslist make any money? If so, how? And if not, why does ebay keep it?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
12-05-11 | 12:37 PM
#67
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,135
Likes: 6,360
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Velobase Market. I never thought of that. Turns out I'm a member. I must have joined years ago. Thanks for the tip!
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
12-05-11 | 12:39 PM
#68
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 15,946
Likes: 371
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
eBay is less interested in making money with it and more interested in keeping it from taking marketshare from eBay.
12-05-11 | 01:21 PM
#70
Too many bikes
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
From: Boston MA
(say using delivery confirmation, or early buyer feedback). I sold a bunch of stuff 3 weeks ago. And the funds were released at different intervals. The sale total didn't amount to much so
I didn't get worked up about it, but I can see where it would be a major problem for some.
If you use ebay shipping I believe paypal will release those funds immediately for all users.
12-05-11 | 01:40 PM
#71
Unique Vintage Steel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 287
From: Allen, TX
Bikes: Kirk Frameworks JKS-C, Serotta Nova, Gazelle AB-Frame, Fuji Team Issue, Surly Straggler
Its still in Beta, lots of little things to finish with it, but it's getting there. (won't thread-jack any more than that)
12-05-11 | 01:58 PM
#72
Banned.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,292
Likes: 4,863
From: PAZ
DD
12-05-11 | 03:12 PM
#73
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 2
From: Metro Detroit
I did a quick search for "eBay Paypal antitrust" and received several hits, one of which was this: https://www.internetretailer.com/2010...-federal-court . KonAaron is far from alone on this.
12-05-11 | 04:33 PM
#74
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,854
Likes: 5,377
From: NW Burbs, Chicago
But there are alternatives. You can sell by newspaper, word of mouth, craigslist, other classified ads, OR you could choose not to sell it at all. That is a choice, and it completely avoids the fees.
You can also give your stuff away. That's how I get a lot of my bikes. People with no time, such as when they're moving house or just cleaning up, just want the bikes out of the way. And because people send so much good will this way, I give a lot of them away.
You can also give your stuff away. That's how I get a lot of my bikes. People with no time, such as when they're moving house or just cleaning up, just want the bikes out of the way. And because people send so much good will this way, I give a lot of them away.
Not in the same category as ebay. I could use a typewriter instead of a Microsoft bundle. I could send a letter instead of using the phone. Ma Bell and Microsoft lost. That said, antitrust in recent years has seemingly fallen off law enforcement's radar. There are lots of theories about that but then we would need to go to P&R.
12-05-11 | 04:36 PM
#75
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,135
Likes: 6,360
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Well, you're convincing me that they deserve to be broken up. I don't like monopolies, and I don't like giant companies in general.
If it happens (ha!), I'll be glad to pay lower fees. In the meantime, it is occasionally the best deal available to me, even though it's not as good as it "should" be.
If it happens (ha!), I'll be glad to pay lower fees. In the meantime, it is occasionally the best deal available to me, even though it's not as good as it "should" be.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.