Question of Paramount importance!
 

Lady in the neighborhood has a Schwinn Paramount she bought new. Mid 70's.
It is all original, but, tires, brake pads and chain. It has never been ridden in
the wet, never left out side over night. It has never been down on the ground.
It has a couple chips on the fork and the paint is a bit dull. It has never been
waxed or any thing like that.

It is ridden several times a week, three to five miles per outing.

She is talking about having the bike stripped down and repainted and
trying to find some new decals.

I told her no in no uncertain terms. She is wanting me to do the work.


Your opinion?

Most of the time a simple overhaul and cleanup will do wonders for a bike's appearance.

Pics?

It will be a bit, I see her on the bike path, not sure where she lives, just somewhere in the neighborhood.

Bob Hufford would be the go to guy about Paramounts.
The decals are probably available.
It's getting them on correctly that's the issue.

I am not sure if it would help, or not, but you might invite the lady to look through Should I Paint My Bike? If she does take the time she might come to understand and accept the bicycle's patina of age, and the history that goes with it. Hope it is a help.

If she wants to paint it, it's her money. What's the big deal? Paint the damn thing, and make sure it gets done right.

It is a beautiful old bike that needs a bit of TLC. What will painting and new decals do to the value of the bike? She has the original tires and chain.

This is the color, even has the whiteSW tires.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=230121

Nothing. It will do nothing.

She won't recover the cost of a professional paint and decal upon sale of the bike, but having the bike professionally painted will not devalue the bike one penny.

If it is worth $500 as it sits, it will still be worth $500 with new paint.

It depends on who you ask. There are some who would prefer a new or new looking bike, but personally I would have zero interest paying that kind of money on a repainted bike, since there are preserved collectable bikes still to be had. I am not alone in that sentiment among the people who would be inclined to buy C&V bikes.

I think punny titles should be a requirement around here :D

Those of us who have brought back the original shine on a Schwinn's paint finish can attest that it is worth a try to begin with before repainting. A dull Schwinn finish can usually be brought back to life. Decals are in ebay all the time.

If she really wants to restore it to "like new" condition, and has the money to do so, she should send it to Waterford. Richard Schwinn will have the bike painted with exact match original color for $600. I think that includes decals. Having Waterford do the restoration will definately increase the value for anyone that knows about Paramounts.

All you can do is explain pros and cons to to her. In the end, it's her decision. After that, if a new paint job is what it takes to maintain her interest in the bicycle, then it's justififed.

I'd offer to give it a light buffing and a wax job on the easy to reach tubes (be cautious of the decals if exposed of course) and see what sort of results that brings. If the paint does not respond to that to her satisfaction, and you feel you can do the job justice, why not.

Maybe it depends on what she plans on doing with the bike. If she just wants to look at it and for it to be a collectible investment perhaps she shouldn't paint it. But, it sounds as is she actually rides her bike and maybe a repaint will prolong its useful life. It's a Schwinn Paramount, not the Mona Lisa.

I'd suggest new bar tape, maybe new hoods, and a good degreasing and general parts cleaning, and a tune up. It's amazing how much these things help to change a perspective on an old bike. Unless its rusting out I don't see the point of refinishing it.

From what you're saying, this Paramount is pretty much quite intact under the grime and grunge of age.

Do a complete polish and detail job on it - it should come out nearly perfect. Then bring it back to her and ask if she wants to repaint it. I'll bet you she'll be more than pleased with the polishing results and decline the repaint.


Complete and utter NONSENSE. There are too many "professionals" out there who will botch up the masking job around the Nervex lugs, and lay the pinstriping directly onto the shoreline three times thicker than original to make up for their lousy work.

The only restored Paramount I've seen with proper pinstriping work is Pastor Bob's (now Jimmy's) '66 P13, which was pinstriped by a pinstriping professional, and not a bicycle painter.

However, with all due respect to Jimmy and Bob, the "professional" who put the Copptertone paint job - not the pinstriping - on the '66 did such a mess on the headlugs that there are alternating areas of red primer, silver basecoat, and Coppertone top coat all around the shorelines. There's enough lifted paint around there to make it look as if there was a disaster during the silver soldering of the frame. There's even one spot where the pinstriping intersects red primer. I'm sorry I had to say this about the '66, but it's the best and most relevant example I can give to prove my point - and I think Bob and Jimmy will understand the importance of this example.

Will a repaint do anything? Yes - a repaint that isn't absolutely 100% accurate to an original paint job will devalue the frame by miles to anyone who truly appreciates originality. On the other hand, jokers who slobber gold One Shot enamel on their repainted (and bent!) Hetchins without a care to the art of doing so will absolutely LOVE a repaint:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/BM_8_20.jpg

-Kurt

Right back at you. Most people would not care if the Paramount were professionally repainted by Ed Litton, Joe Bell, Waterford, Brian Baylis or a host of other masters of their craft. Some people would prefer it over a finish that is tattered.

I guarantee you a professional repaint would sell for just as much as one with original "patina". Paramounts are nice frames, but hardly priceless works of art. Very few bikes are. Most production bikes are fairly easy to find and replace...De Rosa's, Pinarello's, you name it.

Historically significant or or other singularly remarkable/rare bikes - yes. A fairly common to find Paramount.... not so much.

Nonsense, indeed. But not from me........ :)

What you say here is true. But, more to the point, it appears to be 100% irrelevant. If this woman was someone who "truly appreciates originality," she wouldn't be interested in repainting in the first place.

Unless there is more to this story than the OP and we have been given, she is not a collector. She has had the bike since it was new, has ridden and loved the heck out of it, and wants to keep on doing so (would that all nice bikes were so fortunate). Let her paint the damn thing if she wants. It's her bike, not ours. To carry on the art analogy, this is adding trees or clouds or more sea foam to a Thomas Kincaid, not painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

I do agree with the suggestions of doing a polish job on a portion of the frame to see if that satisfies her, not because of any inherent desire to keep it "all original," but because it may be a lower-cost way to get the lady what she wants.

that's not true at all.

repaints can and often do devalue a bike. and sometimes it adds value depending on the condition it was already in.

will it effect HER bike? I dunno, it depends on what condition it is in now. If its in descent condition then an unnecessary repaint will deminish its current value to a collector

personally i would never buy a repainted, or for that matter repaired, bike. and i know lots of people who are in the same boat.

True, but her entire desire to have it repainted could be simply because she may not understand what can be done to rejuvenate the original finish. Most people refuse to accept the idea that dulled paint has any potential until you enlighten them with a demonstration or before-and-after pictures. That's why some people are fixated on repaints.

In fact, I've yet to convince any layman without doing a bit of polishing for their own doubting eyes to see. You ought to see their expressions when they see this:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_s...scratchx_3.jpg

-Kurt

I am going to recommend a complete tear down, check all the bearing. new cables and housing.
Clean and polish the frame and fork, clean and polish the wheels. Have the wheels checked.
New tape.

Sounds good. If it has silkscreened decals, be careful going over them with Scratch X.

Though unlikely, if it is a very late Paramount, it might have sticker decals which are much more resilient. Chances are they are silkscreen though.

-Kurt

Sure it is.

Say I had a mid 70's paramount, and I got sick of looking at the yellow paint. If I hand it over to Ed Litton or send it to Waterford and have them paint it blue and then re-decal it, it will still be worth what it was before the repaint. It's not a one-off, historically significant, or even especially rare or valuable in the grand scheme of things. I agree - there are plenty of bikes that should be refinished only as a last resort, but this isn't one of them.

The "polish it and see" argument I agree with in general, but in this case specifically it is a straw man construct........ we have no idea why she wants the bike refinished, but some have assumed for the basis of their argument that it is because the original paint is dull. We don't really know....... maybe she's just sick of the color.


I've seen enough Litton, Baylis, Bell, and Waterford refinished bike to satisfy myself.... they are masterfully done and will not hinder the sale of the frame they adorn. Maybe you wouldn't buy it - but I guarantee you there will be a market for them just the same, and with no loss of value.

Here's a question to ponder......

How much is this particular frame/fork worth as it sits? Now..... how much is it worth with a Waterford refinish? Give me some numbers, please. Tell me just how much of the value is lost.

Hear, Hear! That’s all I got... Did I fail to mention that you people are awesome with your knowledge of bikes? I don't think there is anything like BF C&V.:thumb: