Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

To Simplex or not to Simplex?

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.
View Poll Results: Simplex or Suntour
Keep it stock and rock the Simplex
43.48%
Better looks and reliability - Suntour all the way
56.52%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

To Simplex or not to Simplex?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-10-12 | 10:10 AM
  #26  
Grand Bois's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,392
Likes: 40
From: Pinole, CA, USA
I had a friend, now long deceased, that was a pioneer in the plastics industry. He used to say that plastics become brittle because they "lose their polymers" over time.
Grand Bois is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 10:43 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Originally Posted by auchencrow
Question: Has anyone here had a REAR Simplex derailleur break? (Aside from the pulleys of course.)
The fronts break at the clamp when they get old and brittle.
dbakl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 10:46 AM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Originally Posted by rootboy
How did they attach that Simplex rear to the Zeus dropout?
Simplex was designed to go through an unthreaded hole held to the dropout with a nut on the inside.
dbakl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 11:03 AM
  #29  
Captain Blight's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 4
From: Minneapolis

Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course

Originally Posted by auchencrow
Question: Has anyone here had a REAR Simplex derailleur break? (Aside from the pulleys of course.)

My personal experience with the rear derailleurs (Prestige and Criterium) has been pretty good - and though I'm a big Suntour fan, I think Simplex performs quite well.
That being said, I think their Delrin FD's are POC's.
I've seen literally hundreds of Simplex RDs in the past two years at the bike shop, and I think I've only seen one with a broken body. The pulleys, of course, do chip and break; but when they're complete the work very nicely. I've never tried to replace them, but surely there's another brand with tougher plastic that would fit and work.
Captain Blight is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 11:15 AM
  #30  
roccobike's Avatar
Bike Junkie
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,625
Likes: 40
From: South of Raleigh, North of New Hill, East of Harris Lake, NC

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Specialized Roubaix, Giant OCR-C, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, Stumpjumper Comp, 88 & 92Nishiki Ariel, 87 Centurion Ironman, 92 Paramount, 84 Nishiki Medalist

Originally Posted by Captain Blight
I've seen literally hundreds of Simplex RDs in the past two years at the bike shop, and I think I've only seen one with a broken body. The pulleys, of course, do chip and break; but when they're complete the work very nicely. I've never tried to replace them, but surely there's another brand with tougher plastic that would fit and work.
Yes, actually some older Suntour jockey wheels are a direct replacement. I've done it and the old Suntour stuff works fine. I forget the exact model of Suntour I used, but it's an older model from the 70's and it was the only Suntour rear DR where the wheels were compatible. All my newer, late 70's and all of the 80's stuff did not fit.

Edit: The Simplex derailer that I so carefully repaired went on an all original, 70s Raleigh Grand Prix. I cleaned that bike up, made it look really nice and fully functional then sold it on CL. After I sold the bike, the new owner tells me "Yeah, I'm going to make it a fixie." Arrrggg!.
__________________
Roccobike BF Official Thread Terminator

Last edited by roccobike; 02-10-12 at 11:20 AM.
roccobike is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 11:45 AM
  #31  
rootboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,748
Likes: 138
From: Wherever
Originally Posted by dbakl
Simplex was designed to go through an unthreaded hole held to the dropout with a nut on the inside.
Yeah , I know, that's why I'm wondering how this derailleur was attached to a Zeus dropout. OP says in posy #23 that the dropout is threaded. Curious how they attached the Simplex Prestige to it.
rootboy is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 11:54 AM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Originally Posted by rootboy
Curious how they attached the Simplex Prestige to it.
The mounting bolt is smaller than the threaded hole. Goes through the hole and is secured with a nut. Threads in the dropout aren't engaged.
dbakl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 11:55 AM
  #33  
Chombi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Likes: 39

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Originally Posted by Grand Bois
I had a friend, now long deceased, that was a pioneer in the plastics industry. He used to say that plastics become brittle because they "lose their polymers" over time.
It's called "outgassing" The plasticizers pretty much get emitted out of the plastic as a gas or vapor or simetimes even ooze out as an oily substance, usually accelerated when the plastic item is exposed to heat and sunlight (UV).
You mgiht have noticed this on your car, if you park it outdoors for long periods of time under the sun and not regularly clean the inner surface of the windshield, an oily substance would build up on the glass. That's the plasticizers from you plastic dashboard parts and finishes.

Chombi

Last edited by Chombi; 02-10-12 at 12:11 PM.
Chombi is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 11:57 AM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Originally Posted by roccobike
"Yeah, I'm going to make it a fixie."
I see a T-Shirt design:

"The Fixie: Mankind's best application of the Simplex Derailler"
dbakl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:01 PM
  #35  
Chombi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Likes: 39

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Originally Posted by Grand Bois
No, and I worked at a Peugeot/Raleigh shop. They do get sloppy after many miles, though.

It's funny that if you research Delrin, you'll find that one of its main uses today is pulleys.
Maybe "new" Delrin works better because of UV inhibitors (which they might not even have used on the old Simplex derailleurs) and plasticizers??
Chombi is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:07 PM
  #36  
Miyata110's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 331
Likes: 6

Bikes: 1986 Miyata 110

I'll try to take a picture tonight if my explanation is not clear enough, but there is a bolt that goes through the inside of the dropout that threads into a hole in the back of the RD. The diameter of the bolt is small enough to fit through the hole in the dropout without using the threads.
Miyata110 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:09 PM
  #37  
auchencrow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,303
Likes: 60
From: Detroit
Originally Posted by Captain Blight
I've seen literally hundreds of Simplex RDs in the past two years at the bike shop, and I think I've only seen one with a broken body. The pulleys, of course, do chip and break; but when they're complete the work very nicely. I've never tried to replace them, but surely there's another brand with tougher plastic that would fit and work.
Hmmm...
Apart from the pulleys, the evidence is mounting that Simplex RD's rarely break, and so it seems they are better than is generally acknowledged.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:15 PM
  #38  
Miyata110's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 331
Likes: 6

Bikes: 1986 Miyata 110

Originally Posted by auchencrow
Hmmm...
Apart from the pulleys, the evidence is mounting that Simplex RD's rarely break, and so it seems they are better than is generally acknowledged.
I get the feeling that the "Simplex sucks" sentiment is largely due to the agreed upon worthlessness of the FD, the RD simply becomes guilty by association.
Miyata110 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:20 PM
  #39  
jimmuller's Avatar
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,496
Likes: 940
From: Boston-ish, MA

Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Originally Posted by Miyata110
I'll try to take a picture tonight if my explanation is not clear enough, but there is a bolt that goes through the inside of the dropout that threads into a hole in the back of the RD. The diameter of the bolt is small enough to fit through the hole in the dropout without using the threads.
dbakl's explanation is quite accurate, no further explanation necessary. Your original description was that "a bolt went through to a bolt on the back of the dropout", or something similar. What you meant was a bolt from the upper knuckle of the derailleur went through the dropout hole to a special nut that fits on the inside of the dropout.

As I recall, that's how all the Simplex Prestige units worked, though they typically attached to a claw instead of a dropout hanger. The flange of that special nut was thin enough that it didn't interfere with the small cog, and it had a flat side that went to the front to allow more room for the axle to come back. The only way it would have worked with a dropout with integrated hanger is for the nut itself to fit into the threads, or else it didn't protrude into the threads at all. In any case, if your dropout has good "Campy" threads you can just screw the Suntour into it.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:25 PM
  #40  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Simplex 'works' just like an Allvit 'works', but you ain't gonna love it! Its not a thing of working beauty like 'others'.
dbakl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:34 PM
  #41  
Chombi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Likes: 39

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Originally Posted by Miyata110
I get the feeling that the "Simplex sucks" sentiment is largely due to the agreed upon worthlessness of the FD, the RD simply becomes guilty by association.
I also suspect the RD's did not break as much as the FD's did, but there must have been a good enough reason why Simplex decided to reinforce their Delrin RD arms with some sheet metal covering on later RDs like the SX610s which are now known as great shifting and totally reliable RDs. So at least, Simplex did eventually wake up to do these improvements.
Also note that they also did not use any totally plastic main pivots on their later RDs.

Chombi
Chombi is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:35 PM
  #42  
Miyata110's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 331
Likes: 6

Bikes: 1986 Miyata 110

Originally Posted by jimmuller
dbakl's explanation is quite accurate, no further explanation necessary. Your original description was that "a bolt went through to a bolt on the back of the dropout", or something similar. What you meant was a bolt from the upper knuckle of the derailleur went through the dropout hole to a special nut that fits on the inside of the dropout.
This may be a matter of semantics, but I did indeed mean that a bolt goes through the hole from the inside of the dropout and threads directly into the back of the RD. There is nothing protuding from the back of the RD that goes through the dropout, it is flat with a threaded hole that accepts the bolt I'm referring to.
Miyata110 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 12:38 PM
  #43  
rootboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,748
Likes: 138
From: Wherever
Originally Posted by jimmuller
dbakl's explanation is quite accurate, no further explanation necessary. Your original description was that "a bolt went through to a bolt on the back of the dropout", or something similar. What you meant was a bolt from the upper knuckle of the derailleur went through the dropout hole to a special nut that fits on the inside of the dropout.

As I recall, that's how all the Simplex Prestige units worked, though they typically attached to a claw instead of a dropout hanger. The flange of that special nut was thin enough that it didn't interfere with the small cog, and it had a flat side that went to the front to allow more room for the axle to come back. The only way it would have worked with a dropout with integrated hanger is for the nut itself to fit into the threads, or else it didn't protrude into the threads at all. In any case, if your dropout has good "Campy" threads you can just screw the Suntour into it.
Not quite all of them Jim. My Simplex derailleur is threaded female on the upper pivot and is attached to the dropout using a shouldered bolt, M6 x .1, that is driven by a 5 mm hex wrench. I had assumed the OP's was the same.
edit: as I see above, it is.
rootboy is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 01:05 PM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Originally Posted by rootboy
Not quite all of them.
You could be right. Honestly, Simplex are really not my thing, though I've had a few.
dbakl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 06:49 PM
  #45  
zukahn1's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 10,043
Likes: 2,505
From: Fairplay Co

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Since this bike has campy style drops I would revise my opinion to sugest that vintage Shimano 600's would work and look good on this bike exspecially the Arabesque ones.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMGP4495-filtered.jpg (56.1 KB, 32 views)
zukahn1 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 06:54 PM
  #46  
zukahn1's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 10,043
Likes: 2,505
From: Fairplay Co

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

sorry didn't mean to doublr post.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMGP4495-filtered.jpg (56.1 KB, 13 views)
zukahn1 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-12 | 06:56 PM
  #47  
rootboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,748
Likes: 138
From: Wherever
Originally Posted by dbakl
You could be right. Honestly, Simplex are really not my thing, though I've had a few.
I don't mind them , but yeah...that's why I put the Nuovo Record on my Gitane.
rootboy is offline  
Reply
Old 02-11-12 | 07:18 AM
  #48  
Grand Bois's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,392
Likes: 40
From: Pinole, CA, USA
Originally Posted by dbakl
Simplex was designed to go through an unthreaded hole held to the dropout with a nut on the inside.
Just to clarify:

I have a bunch of higher end Simplex derailers an all that are intended for attachment directly to a dropout use a bolt through the back of the hanger. In other words, the pivot bolt is drilled and tapped for a bolt. Those that are intended for use with a claw have a pivot bolt that takes a nut. The bolted derailers also have a tabbed washer that is not present on the nutted version, so they are not interchangeable.

I replace my Simplex pulleys with Bullseyes. I use two of ithe supplied 6mm washers on each side of the pulleys.

As soon as it gets warmer, I'm going to go out in the garage and put some Bullseyes on the SX610 on my Jeunet. The came in a bag of parts I bought for $17. There was also two sets of Stronglight 93 dust caps in the bag,so it was a bargain. I made an arbor for the pulleys and chucked them in my drill press so I could polish them. They're much too pretty for my beater Jeunet.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 02-11-12 at 08:48 AM.
Grand Bois is offline  
Reply
Old 02-11-12 | 11:45 AM
  #49  
Maxturbo's Avatar
Navy Retired
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
From: Charleston, SC

Bikes: Raleigh's all: '71 and '74 Internationals, '74 Super Tourer

I vote to stay Simplex, but...

I had the original Prestige (plastic) version DR's on my GP when I got it last year. The rear DR had a shipping incident, which caused a couple of broken pulley teeth. Other than that...it shifted fine.

During my resto on the bike, I decided to up-grade the DR's to Simplex Super LJ components and LOVE them for precise shifting and lack of major (potentially troublesome) plastic components. And who could argue with the better looking LJ's?

https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2006...erailleur.html




Last edited by Maxturbo; 02-11-12 at 12:08 PM.
Maxturbo is offline  
Reply
Old 02-11-12 | 02:37 PM
  #50  
Captain Blight's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 4
From: Minneapolis

Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course

Hey, there ya go. If you can find an SLJ, that would be spectacular (but expensive). The SX610 is the SLJ's poorer, chubbier cousin and will be both period-correct and as functional as anyone could want.

Love Simplex for what it is; don't hate it for what it is not.
Captain Blight is offline  
Reply


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.