To Simplex or not to Simplex?
 

Ok, just one last opinion poll before I complete the reassemble of my Raleigh Grand Sports. I bought the bike with the original Simplex derailleurs and they’ve cleaned up really nice. They appear to be in working order and everything else on the bike, except the seat, is original. I had planned on replacing the Simplex with a set of Suntour shifters and derailleurs that I have (IMO they look better and are probably more reliable), but now I’m second guessing myself and am thinking about keeping it stock.

So what’s your take: Use the Suntour or stick with the original look and functionality and put the Simplex back on?

What model Simplex derailleurs?
Pictures of bike and derailleurs please.

Chombi

I didn't vote. You need more options!

It depends on how you intend to use the bike. The Simplex will work and yeah they will rock. But they may break. Well, anything can break (I had a Suntour Cyclone go south on me, fortunately only 2 blocks from home; I once had a brake cable break, only 6 blocks from home), but the Simplex may be more prone to breaking. If you intend to ride hard and far you should probably go with the Suntour. If you will mostly be cruising where you won't end up stranded, unable to ride home, then rock on. Either one will work sufficiently well.

BTW, Simplex shifters with Suntour derailleurs is an interesting combination. Suntour was designed to use more cable movement per shift. So if you use Simplex levers you'll have to move the lever much farther. However this gives you much finer control over the derailleur position, not a bad thing!

I don't have any after pictures yet, but here is a before:
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...dsports1-1.jpg
And here is the RD (like I said, it cleaned up really nice):
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/IMAG0295.jpg

Sorry, I don't have any pics of the FD. They are Simplex Prestige.

The bike is actually for my Dad and I'm not sure how he will end up using it. He has a newer AL Raleigh with brifters that he likes so this won't be his everyday bike. I would imagine he will put quite a few miles on it though.

Try and find a Simplex Criterium RD and matching alloy shifters. Much more robust than the Prestige, prettier and they have ball bearing pulley wheels. The alloy shifters give much better tactile feedback than the plastic Pretige levers and all of it remains period correct.

Looks something like Simplex Criteriums or derivative on there....so it coul be a lot of Delrin parts in it, so not a big loss if you replace them. If all or most of those black parts are indeed Delrin, they look pretty dried out and crispy, so I wouldn't take a chance on them if I were you. I vote to replace them ASAP with something decent like your Suntour gear. Most Suntours will be much better for you and the bike in the long run. You can always "re-Simplex" the bike later if you want to with maybe an SX610 RD setup and maybe even clamped on retrofrictions.

Chombi

I say replace if you plan on riding a lot red label prestige drs have a rep for breaking when the get older. If you want to keep the bike near correct you could you could look for a beter set of all allloy Simplex dr's.

I vote for this ;)
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/...9/newbolt4.jpg

if it is for your dad and you don't want to strand him......suntour. I fully admit to being brainwashed, as first bike book (in the early 70's) was "Anybody's Bike Book" and the comments there were something like "shift smooth before they break, they will break, utter garbage stay away"

I never had first hand experience, but the delrin parts had a bad rep (for breaking) back in the day, and I doubt they improve with age.

I'd say lose all of the low end Simplex crap if you want to give your Dad a reliable bike, but no Suntour rear derailer will fit that Simplex hanger.

The Simplex derailers and shifters are old and brittle and prone to breaking at the worst possible time. My Criterium broke when I was 5 miles from home and it was only about 10 years old.

Rootboy has the solution.

The big question in my mind is the derailleur hanger - is it original Simplex? If so, it'd be a shame to file it down, which you'd have to do to fit the SunTour. In that case I'd find an all-metal Simplex, and a spare. I have a SX410GT that I don't need. It's almost entirely steel. I'm missing the tabbed washer, but PM me if you're interested.

Based on my experience with Simplex and based on Sheldon's comments about Japanese components, I would change to the Suntour parts and keep the original parts in a sealed bag. I'm not real big on derailers that disintegrate, and I'm not real big on a bike that breaks down many miles from home, but hey, that's just me You didn't say what level the SUntour parts were, if they're Cyclone I'd certainly make the change. If they're Superbe, I'd send the components to me for proper handling.

What, no Sturmey AW selection? I shall abstain lest my IGH cred be tarnished. :p

Question: Has anyone here had a REAR Simplex derailleur break? (Aside from the pulleys of course.)

My personal experience with the rear derailleurs (Prestige and Criterium) has been pretty good - and though I'm a big Suntour fan, I think Simplex performs quite well.
That being said, I think their Delrin FD's are POC's.

Auchen, Point of Contact's? Huh? You're confusing me! :wtf:

No, and I worked at a Peugeot/Raleigh shop. They do get sloppy after many miles, though.

It's funny that if you research Delrin, you'll find that one of its main uses today is pulleys.

I just checked and indeed the Suntour does fit. They are Zues dropouts if that means anything/makes a difference.

I replaced the Allvit on my Record with a Simplex then broke 2 of those in a year & a half. My bud broke 2 Simplexs (Simplexi?) duing the same time. Went Suntour, no regrets. Could get some nice period Campy stuff at a good price. Or I could send you the Allvit, won't break, might even shift.

That says a lot.
(And it is ironic that they are using it for pulleys today!)

That's Zeus and you've got it made!

well...never mind then. Slap that Suntour on there. One question, though. How did they attach that Simplex rear to the Zeus dropout?

There is a bolt that attaches from the back of the dropout.

For those interested, the dropout is actually threaded so the bolt from the Suntour can screw directly into it.

It's a standard Campy-style hanger. I hope you have the Suntour shifters to go with the derailers. That style of Simplex levers sucks

The prime advantage of the Simplex Delrin components was that they were relatively light and inexpensive. They needed no break-in period, unlike many other derailleurs, They were smooth out of the box. On the other hand they required abnormally high effort to shift. The levers were quite flexible and the prime source of the high effort. The push rod front derailleur was arguably the worst front derailleur of the boom era. The rear derailleur was the best piece and was a competent performer, when mated to better levers. However, as stated they did wear and get sloppy. They also did break but rarely when new. If they were misadjusted and went into the spokes, you could pull the pins out of the pivot housings, but they were actually quite tough. However, despite manufacturers claims, the delrin did appear to get brittle with age and environmental exposure. After a few years, they did start to come back, in pieces.

If you want to keep the bicycle original, the aging aspect is a concern. If it does break, even if you find a NOS replacement, the aging is still a concern. On the other hand, most LBS have bins of used Simplex parts, usually at very reasonable prices, The shifting can be improved substantially with different levers and a HyperGlide compatible freewheel.

I had a friend, now long deceased, that was a pioneer in the plastics industry. He used to say that plastics become brittle because they "lose their polymers" over time.

The fronts break at the clamp when they get old and brittle.

Simplex was designed to go through an unthreaded hole held to the dropout with a nut on the inside.

I've seen literally hundreds of Simplex RDs in the past two years at the bike shop, and I think I've only seen one with a broken body. The pulleys, of course, do chip and break; but when they're complete the work very nicely. I've never tried to replace them, but surely there's another brand with tougher plastic that would fit and work.

Yes, actually some older Suntour jockey wheels are a direct replacement. I've done it and the old Suntour stuff works fine. I forget the exact model of Suntour I used, but it's an older model from the 70's and it was the only Suntour rear DR where the wheels were compatible. All my newer, late 70's and all of the 80's stuff did not fit.

Edit: The Simplex derailer that I so carefully repaired went on an all original, 70s Raleigh Grand Prix. I cleaned that bike up, made it look really nice and fully functional then sold it on CL. After I sold the bike, the new owner tells me "Yeah, I'm going to make it a fixie." Arrrggg!.