Newbie To Tubular Tires . . . Advice? (Cannondale R1000 2.8)
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
Newbie To Tubular Tires . . . Advice? (Cannondale R1000 2.8)
I recently acquired a 1992 Cannondale R1000 with tubular tires. I am not sure if this bike will stay intact - I bought it for my wife who now wants a recumbent instead - but I want to try riding it a bit before I decide.
However, I have never had a bike with tubulars before, and these are probably at least a decade old.
My feeling is that, before riding, I should remove the old tubulars, remove any glue lumps on the rim, and install new tires. I've read various guides to installing tubulars but remain intimidated. Can I ask these things (and please feel free to add anything I'm missing):
1. Should I remove all the glue from the rim on the theory that it is old and hard, and re-apply the glue base?
2. Should I skip the glue and use tubular tape instead? What are the pros/cons of tape vs glue?
3. What brand of tubular tire will be more flat-resistant and not terribly costly? For all I know, I may hate tubulars or be incapable of gluing them competently, so I don't want to spend $100/ea x 3.
By the way, I've never had a Cannondale before. This one seems nice. The P.O. kept it in beautfiul condition and retained almost all the original Mavic components. He must have been a weight weenie, because the wheelset, stem/bar, and seatpost/saddle were switched to lighter items. I guess that's how the Campagnolo tubular rims/Hi-E hubs got on there. I should weigh it.
One thing slightly puzzling is that this was described as a 1992 2.8, and indeed that seems to be the only year that a Cannondale 2.8 came with all Mavic bits, but the catalog says the color was yellow/black while this bike is a deep blue. https://www.vintagecannondale.com/catalog.html Is that sort of discrepancy common?
However, I have never had a bike with tubulars before, and these are probably at least a decade old.
My feeling is that, before riding, I should remove the old tubulars, remove any glue lumps on the rim, and install new tires. I've read various guides to installing tubulars but remain intimidated. Can I ask these things (and please feel free to add anything I'm missing):
1. Should I remove all the glue from the rim on the theory that it is old and hard, and re-apply the glue base?
2. Should I skip the glue and use tubular tape instead? What are the pros/cons of tape vs glue?
3. What brand of tubular tire will be more flat-resistant and not terribly costly? For all I know, I may hate tubulars or be incapable of gluing them competently, so I don't want to spend $100/ea x 3.
By the way, I've never had a Cannondale before. This one seems nice. The P.O. kept it in beautfiul condition and retained almost all the original Mavic components. He must have been a weight weenie, because the wheelset, stem/bar, and seatpost/saddle were switched to lighter items. I guess that's how the Campagnolo tubular rims/Hi-E hubs got on there. I should weigh it.
One thing slightly puzzling is that this was described as a 1992 2.8, and indeed that seems to be the only year that a Cannondale 2.8 came with all Mavic bits, but the catalog says the color was yellow/black while this bike is a deep blue. https://www.vintagecannondale.com/catalog.html Is that sort of discrepancy common?
#2
Senior Member
As to #3, I have had good luck with Continental Sprinter Gatorskins. I think they run about $50 a tire. I am a recent tubular convert and love them. I am putting them on most of my bikes. I remove as much of the old, hard glue as I can before putting on new glue. I use Vittoria Mastik. Others have had good luck with Tufo tape, but I have not tried it. Good luck!
#3
Senior Member
Don't try to remove all the old glue - too much work. Remove large chunks and as much as comes off by scraping, but don't work too hard. Most existing glue will get employed in the re-gluing. On aluminum rims I use a heat gun to soften any lumps that won't come off.
Don't be intimidated and use common sense. You are going for adhesion, not perfection. You will make a mess on the sidewalls the first time but it won't hurt anything. I use acid brushes to get a liberal coating on rim and tire
Don't be intimidated and use common sense. You are going for adhesion, not perfection. You will make a mess on the sidewalls the first time but it won't hurt anything. I use acid brushes to get a liberal coating on rim and tire
#4
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,888
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1457 Post(s)
Liked 2,197 Times
in
963 Posts
I can't help with the tubulars (not had the best of luck with them).
I have a '93 R600 2.8 in a blue. It is the lightest bike I own at something like 20lbs as equipped with Shimano 105 gear. It could be that your R1000 received the '93 paint. Is it this color?
I have a '93 R600 2.8 in a blue. It is the lightest bike I own at something like 20lbs as equipped with Shimano 105 gear. It could be that your R1000 received the '93 paint. Is it this color?
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
Yes, it is that same blue color. So it may have been made late in the year. Tonight I'll check the serial number and see.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
27 Posts
Quick, easy way to get any old dried up hard glue on the rim is to use a Dremel with a brass wire brush wheel on it. I zings it off a whole rim in just minutes. Just remember to wear a dust mask when you do it. Don't bother with Goo Gone and other similar glue removal chemicals if the glue is hard an dry as it can take days of applying the chemical and scrubbing to melt the glue down and off the rims. Cleaned up a set of Mavic GL330 rims with 30 year old rock hard glue residue on it a couple of years ago. That's how I discovered the Dremel method as a last resort after having no luck remiving the glue with Goo Gone and thinners. Don't worry about the Dremel wire wheel affecting the finish. The dark anodizing on my GL330s was not affected/damaged at all.
Chombi
Chombi
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times
in
22 Posts
A little lacquer thinner, acetone ore even gasoline will soften the glue up enough to re-use. Just add a little more where needed. I used to glue the rim, wait until it got tacky, the stretched the new tire on, then pumped up . Clean up with a solvent soaked rag.
#8
Full Member
As tempted as I get with the variety of light racing tires and cool skinny rims, this all sounds like a RPITA. What do you do when you get a flat? I mean, it sounds like you can't even change a tire without packing special glue, a hair dryer, Dremel tool or whatever, on top of hex keys, pump and tire levers. Do pro-racers still use tubulars? What are the advantage?
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
27 Posts
As tempted as I get with the variety of light racing tires and cool skinny rims, this all sounds like a RPITA. What do you do when you get a flat? I mean, it sounds like you can't even change a tire without packing special glue, a hair dryer, Dremel tool or whatever, on top of hex keys, pump and tire levers. Do pro-racers still use tubulars? What are the advantage?
You can get used to how to handle /maintain tubulars on your bike after a while. You just have to try it.
Chombi
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,250
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times
in
559 Posts
As tempted as I get with the variety of light racing tires and cool skinny rims, this all sounds like a RPITA. What do you do when you get a flat? I mean, it sounds like you can't even change a tire without packing special glue, a hair dryer, Dremel tool or whatever, on top of hex keys, pump and tire levers. Do pro-racers still use tubulars? What are the advantage?
__________________
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
Last edited by gaucho777; 02-22-12 at 06:46 PM. Reason: typo
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
What do you all think about the "tubular clinchers" by Tufo? Are they a way to try a bit of the tubular feel without actually buying new wheels?
#12
French threaded
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR.
Posts: 1,199
Bikes: many
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
While I can't state from the catalog standpoint I have seen the full mavic R1000s in both yellow and blue.
I find it odd that when cutting some weight from the stock mavic gear they kept the craknset.
I find it odd that when cutting some weight from the stock mavic gear they kept the craknset.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
27 Posts
Chombi
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,250
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times
in
559 Posts
__________________
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
They cut quite a bit of weight off. Campy tubular rims, Hi-E hubs, American Classic seatpost cut down, titanium railed Avocet saddle, etc. Maybe they figured that was enough and didn't want to spend for a new crank. Obviously I wish they'd left it all stock, but the bike is nicely light.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,470
Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I've really come to love tubulars. Yeah, they're a bit of a pain. But once you go through the process a couple times, it goes a lot faster and neater. Patience is key. My process is to use the end of the handle of a cheap stainless spoon to scrape off the worst of the old glue then wipe it down with alcohol to remove any dust. I glue mine on, simply because it's cheap. I like the Vittoria mastic, it's pretty odorless and has a reasonable open time. So I use an acid brush to get a coat on the rim (I try to not get any in the spoke recesses)-- and doing so in the frame or a truing stand, so I can spin the wheel while I'm loading up the brush again and this way I don't get bad lumps. When I have the rim coated I give it a good spin, I think this helps the glue skin over and the rotation keeps everything distributed evenly. I give the base tape on the tire a nice neat coat, and then I let everything dry for about two hours. When I come back, I give the tire another light coat, run a narrow bead down the center of the rim, and mount it up. When all is said and done, I've used about 2/3-3/4 of the tube per tire.
Adjust the tire for straightness, pump it to 30 PSI and let it dry. After a day I pump it to recommended pressure and take it for a ride. I've yet to change a flat on the road, but I do ride with a prepped spare tube. I'm still learning the dread secrets and mysteries of re-stitching the casing, but my efforts are slowly getting better. Every so often I put an ad on Craigslist offering ten bucks for patchable tubulars and am getting quite a nice collection.
Adjust the tire for straightness, pump it to 30 PSI and let it dry. After a day I pump it to recommended pressure and take it for a ride. I've yet to change a flat on the road, but I do ride with a prepped spare tube. I'm still learning the dread secrets and mysteries of re-stitching the casing, but my efforts are slowly getting better. Every so often I put an ad on Craigslist offering ten bucks for patchable tubulars and am getting quite a nice collection.
#17
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,410 Times
in
910 Posts
2-Tape. Tape. Tape. (did I mention that the tape is great?)
3-Tubular clinchers. I have some, and like them. C S 33 Pro's.
I'm actually lending them to an LBS wrench to try.
He's looking at the Challenge tubular clinchers, too.
Downside: you either have to carry one for a spare, or both a tube and tire.
They're on this bike, and yes, I've fixed the saddle tilt. I was testing it with khaki's on.....
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 02-23-12 at 06:10 AM.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Posts: 17,687
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
9 Posts
totally-tubular
That's a pretty good thread with lots of information and tips about tubulars.
I second the idea of Conti Sprinters as a good durable tubular, the only thing
is I think they give up a bit of the tubular ride compared to say a nice Veloflex
or Vittoria tubular.
I prefer Vittoria Mastik over tape, I tried the Tufo tape and ended up with
a gooey sticky mess on sidewalls of my rims. I just don't think it works well
here in Texas during the summer, haven't tried the extreme tape. I was told
by Tufo North America that the regular tape is for Cross type applications and
not for road bikes so that may have played into my situation.
One downside of tape is that when you remove a tire much of it comes off
with the tire, which means you probably should carry spare tape along with
spare tire. In some instances the tape can pull the base-tape off your tubulars
which is not a good thing.
I chip off the worst of the dried on glue and just apply new glue over the
residue.
That's a pretty good thread with lots of information and tips about tubulars.
I second the idea of Conti Sprinters as a good durable tubular, the only thing
is I think they give up a bit of the tubular ride compared to say a nice Veloflex
or Vittoria tubular.
I prefer Vittoria Mastik over tape, I tried the Tufo tape and ended up with
a gooey sticky mess on sidewalls of my rims. I just don't think it works well
here in Texas during the summer, haven't tried the extreme tape. I was told
by Tufo North America that the regular tape is for Cross type applications and
not for road bikes so that may have played into my situation.
One downside of tape is that when you remove a tire much of it comes off
with the tire, which means you probably should carry spare tape along with
spare tire. In some instances the tape can pull the base-tape off your tubulars
which is not a good thing.
I chip off the worst of the dried on glue and just apply new glue over the
residue.
__________________
Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.
Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.
Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,392
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times
in
26 Posts
I have been using Tufo Extreme tape for a couple of years and I love it. I'll never mess with glue again. The weather is much cooler here than in Texas, though.
The tape comes off whole with the tire. I carry spare tape with my spare tire when I carry one. Usually I just carry a cell phone to call my wife and tell her to bring the truck.
The tape comes off whole with the tire. I carry spare tape with my spare tire when I carry one. Usually I just carry a cell phone to call my wife and tell her to bring the truck.
Last edited by Grand Bois; 02-23-12 at 01:29 PM.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: EagleRiver AK
Posts: 1,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 60 Times
in
33 Posts
Using gasoline for this purpose is a bad idea. Gasoline can leave a thin oily residue that will hinder bonding. Gasoline is also carcinogenic (mostely due to benzene content) and produces explosive vapors. LT and Acetone are much better for this purpose.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 1,553
Bikes: Focus trash find commuter, Eddy Merckx Corsa, BP Stealth TT bike, Leader 720 TT bike, Boardman Comp Hybrid drop bar conversion, Quantec CX budget cyclocross build, SerottaNOS frameset ready to build up!
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times
in
69 Posts
Can I just say how refreshing it is to have a tubular-related thread that hasn't disintegrated into a tub v. clincher mud-throwing contest.
And, as I am in a similar situation as the OP, with a tubular wheelset ready to go on my Olmo, thanks to all who have contributed advice.
One last tip, for those in Europe - VERY nice looking tubs are available from Decathlon for just €9,90. Vittoria Rallye, I think.
And, as I am in a similar situation as the OP, with a tubular wheelset ready to go on my Olmo, thanks to all who have contributed advice.
One last tip, for those in Europe - VERY nice looking tubs are available from Decathlon for just €9,90. Vittoria Rallye, I think.
#22
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,944
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times
in
174 Posts
As for the cost of replacing tubulars - that was my biggest concern when I started riding them...and when the first dreaded flat happened, I panicked! My shop told me to relax and use Stans tire sealant...it works on pretty much all but the largest tears. It plugs the hole from inside and you're good to go. I feel like I just wrote ad copy.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto (Burlington)
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Does anyone see a problem with using a heat gun to remove the old glue? I had some old rims, (1973) used a heat gun to soften the old glue and it wiped off nice and clean. Wouldn't use this method on a carbon rim but seems to work well on aluminum.
#24
Senior Member
For old dried glue, remove with a wire wheel attachment for a powered hand-drill. Use safety goggles. The old glue will be gone in about 60 seconds.
Glue with Vittoria Mastik. Buy it in the little tubs; far more cost effective.
After glueing, remove the valve core on the rear tire and inject about 30cc of Stan's sealant. Use an old junk pump where the valve parts in the head have been removed. The rear tire will now be almost impervious to flats. I have been riding on an old Tufo for a full year now with no flats.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,954
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 109 Times
in
78 Posts
I'm a big fan of Tufo rim tape, I'll never glue a tire again. If you follow the directions taping is fool proof.
As far as removing glue...I use a drill with a wire brush, it works exceptionaly well for old dried up glue but makes alot of dust. Newer glue that isn't rock dryhard come off a touch sticky but it does come off.
As far as removing glue...I use a drill with a wire brush, it works exceptionaly well for old dried up glue but makes alot of dust. Newer glue that isn't rock dryhard come off a touch sticky but it does come off.