I'm currently riding on Weinmann RM19s I purchased just last season for my Raleigh GP. They're fine, nothing wrong with them, but I was wondering how much difference a stiffer, lighter, better wheelset might make. Would these from Harris be a worthwhile upgrade?

https://harriscyclery.net/product/sun...wheel-3135.htm

Otherwise, it seems I'll be hunting for used wheels since I don't want to respace my frame for 700c wheels and a 130 mm rear hub (right?). Are there any particular kinds I should be seeking? I'd be willing to spend up to, say, $300 if they were really worth it since I could always transfer/sell them whenever I move to a different bike.

Better framesets transmit wheel differences right away.
I have no idea if your GP will, because I'm not familiar with that frame.

Not to be discounted are tire choices, also, which make a huge difference.

You don't always have to respace your frame for 130mm; often a 126 frame will accommodate a 130 set of wheels, just more effort to get the wheel in/out. Going from 27" to 700c is a different issue; it's more of a matter of brake calipers reaching the extra 4mm.

Assuming you can fit a 130, 700c wheel in there, sure, there's a big difference, but what kind of difference do want? Stiffer? Lighter? That isn't always "better." It depends on what you want, how you ride, etc.

When setting a budget of $300, to go from older wheels to 700c, you may want to consider other issues you'll have to deal with:
1-speeds. Are you going from 6 or 7? friction or indexed? You may need to spend some of that budget on a cassette.
2-caliper reach. You may need to spend some of that budget on longer-reach calipers.
3-tires. Dropping from 27 to 700 means you may need a set of tires.

I've made the conversion before, and it can be done, but it's generally more than just swapping wheelsets.

There are nice 27" wheelsets out there, I just don't know how they compare to your current hoops.
The wheel builders at Harris are pretty good, so that wouldn't be an issue with me.

Good luck.

What Robbie said...and there are nice riding vintage wheels. $300 is quite high for a vintage wheel budget and I feel confident saying you can do something nice. I'm not sure what kind of brake reach you have, but you'll have far more options on a 700c.

One other thing to think about is that $300 can get you a pretty nice used bike. You might want to consider selling the Raleigh and getting mid-upper Japanese bike with better parts and that will come with good wheels on it. If you're willing to spend 300 on wheels, add the $150 you can sell your bike for and you're at $450. At $450 you're in RB2, miyata 916...etc. territory (and better if patient).

Just to mention the obvious.....the feel of the ride will be more readily noticed depending on how much you ride the bike. If you are putting hours and miles like it is your only roadie then the differences will or should be detected right away.

If your current wheels are built well, and are true, and you have decent rubber, not too much advantage to any wheelset upgrade. You would probably notice a difference if you went tubular, but thats a whole other story. What year Grand Prix are we talkin?

It's a '73. It's not a high-end bike, I realize, which calls more into question the utility of getting nice wheels. Its 120 mm rear spacing also limits my options, since I don't want to start bending a bike that's been in the family for 40 years. the brakes will reach a 700c rim, however.

On the other hand, wheels seem like something that I could transfer to another bike (unlike a new crankset, for instance). My next ride would likely be a higher end Raleigh like a Super Course. Meantime, I wouldn't mind stiffer wheels and lower drag tires on my 30-mile rides.

I have 27" wheels on 2 out of 3 bikes. the third bike has tubulars. I have old wheels and older wheels, like from the 70's old. They all work fine, and very little difference between them. A 73 Grand Prix should have 27" wheels in my book. Wouldn't even consider 700's. If the bike is tuned and wheels straight, thats all you can do. Repack the bearings with fresh grease, keep wheels true, tires inflated, you're good to go.

Lowering my ambitions a bit, would switching from my cheapo Kendas to a higher end tire like a Panaracer Pasela make a noticeable difference? And could I switch to 1 1/8 inch from my current 1 1/4 inch? I'm basically trying to satisfy my upgrade bug and make my riding easier, especially on hills, even as I keep an eye out for a nicer vintage bike that fits me (I'm 5'5", so they don't grow on trees)

Put 1 1/4 Pasela non TG tires on that bike and it will feel like a new wheelset.

+1 Go with the Paselas, and keep an eye out for a good used wheelset. Nothing wrong with 27s. Assuming you have steel rims, you could also consider picking up some alloy rims and SS spokes, and relacing the existing hubs. While that would cost more than a decent set of 27s used, it will keep the original hubs. Your choice.

In over 300 bikes rebuilt in the last few years, with many, many wheel replacements (at least 100, probably more), I have yet to have bought a single new wheel for a bike (either a keeper or a bike I passed on). All my wheels were bought used, often in the shape of a complete bicycle. Bought one last night: 600 tricolor hubs, SS spokes, Mavic rims, fresh 7 speed cassette plus a spare cassette. Oh yeah, and did I mention it came with a bike? Mix of 600 tricolor and Dura Ace components. Total cost? About the cost of the lowest end new wheelset you can find.

It takes some imagination. While some see a bike for sale, and see flat tires, missing saddle, no pedals, some paint scrapes, no size, no model, no age, etc., I see nice tricolor components, DA seat post, TTT bars and stems. They see a major headache, I see a parts score.

Someday I will probably have to buy a new wheelset. But right now, I have an ample supply of donor wheels to cover me for a long time.

One idea stimulated by KA S' post: For a budget fo $300 you might be able to get a shop to refurbish your old hubs, rebuild your old wheels with nice new 700c rims, and maybe even afford some new though entry-level rubber. Then you only really have brake reach to think about - you can use your old freewheel and shifting system completely, and no need to think about muscling the frame or cold-setting it.

Re brakes: The brake track on a 700 is 4 mm farther from the brake pivot bolt (in the vertical direction) than the brake track on a 27 inch wheel. If your brake shoes are correctly positioned on your GP, and you have 4 mm available in the brake shoe slots to move down the shoes, you should be able to make the 27 to 700 conversion without buying new brakes. But even though it's only 4 mm, if you can't make this adjustment the brake shoes will wear through your new 700c tire, if left in the position that was right for the 27 incher.

The steel in your '73 can withstand cold-setting easily. I wouldn't worry about ruining the frame as long as the work is done by someone who knows how to do it. If you have the original Normandy hubs (original at least on the late=60s models I recall), they will rebuild nicely as long as the races are not pitted. Cones can also become pitted, but are less difficult to handle as replacements. I'd suggest disassembling your wheel axles and getting an assessment of the condition of your bearings. You at least need to get the dirt and grimey, hardened grease out of it and clean fresh stuff in it. But, if the bearings will not smooth up and adjust correctly with clean grease and new balls, your old hubs are probably toast. Then it's REALLY new wheel time.

BTW, even old hubs that still feel smooth need to be overhauled, if it hasn't been done for 5 to 10 years, or more. Grease dries. If its dry but smooth, there's essentially no lubrication going on, and the running surfaces of the bearings will pit and fail if they haven't.

Yes, without a doubt.

Duhh, if you go to Paselas from the Kenda gumwalls, it will feel like a much better bike. Even better if you replace the steel rims with 27 inch aluminum ones, using double-butted stainless spokes. That will give you nearly all the performance of a modern spoked wheel.

Better tires, or wheels will make a difference.

The problem is, different people notice things differently. And as mentioned different frames change things too. There really is no way to tell if you would notice. I would, but that does not mean you would. A good set of Panaracer Paselas would be a nice upgrade, you may notice. Even if you don't it's a good thing to do.

What makes it easier for me to notice, is to ride the bike a little, change the tires right away, and then go for another ride right away. That might work for you. I can tell the difference between a pair of 280 gram tires, and a pair of 260 gram tires. I can also feel a 10 psi difference. You might notice?

Oh, those old hubs are toast. I repacked them but they are pitted. I have them and the steel rims on a project bike I intend to refurbish and sell.

To clarify, my GP is already on new aluminum wheels with some new no name hubs. The only thing I saved from the old wheel was the five-speed free wheel. My question is really if I can improve from there with better hubs, double walled rims, and butted spokes. This is my daily rider, and I live in Ann Arbor, which has a mix of gentle hills and pitted roads. I'm looking for lower rolling resistance (I hear the Kendas howling -- drives me crazy), more responsiveness, and a bit less weight to carry up those hills.

I would not put any money into the GP. I know you might be attached to it, but picking up a better frame, vintage ride will give you a real performance improvement. I had a 73 Raleigh Record (same frame as the GP). For years I thought because it was a Raleigh it was hot stuff. Then I took a ride on a Ross Signature and found out what a lighter, chromoly frame was like. I think you've done right by your GP with the upgrade you have on it, I would not put more money into it.
If you're thinking of spending $300, go for something like a Centurion Ironman or a mid to late 80's Nishiki International, or a Schwinn Paramount or maybe one of those sweet Trek steel bikes like the 560.

If the hub is not sealed with rubber seals, the grease is also what keeps the grit away from the ball bearings.

Tires make more difference than anything.

Wheels don't affect the quality of the ride of a bike except that wheels' weights affect ride. Stiffness, niceness, betterness, are all non-parameters. Wheels are either light enough for you or they are not. Switching wheels to lighter wheels will feel like an improvement if the weight difference is significant. That's all there is to it.

Tires matter more than wheels, IMO, but wheels matter too. Properly-tensioned and trued wheels can definitely be felt.

Hogwash!

You'll have to try them both for yourself and pick the set you like most. Thats the truth as everyone has different taste in every part when it comes to bikes. Just like saddles, no one can tell you what you like or are going to like.