Richard Sachs Value
05-21-12, 09:00 AM
#1
OldSchool
Thread Starter
Richard Sachs Value
I know, I know, the bike is worth what someone is willing to pay. But what's the deal with these two Sach's bikes on eBay? I know the first one is in great condition, but do Sach's bikes really carry this much value? What is the appeal?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RICHARD-SACH...item4ab7c5f2fd
https://www.ebay.com/itm/56-cm-Richar...item43b0077904
The first seller boasts that this is a no reserve auction and his minimium bid is $4,000, then indicates that the bike is for sale locally and if a bid is placed he will discontinue the local sale. Sounds like if you pony up $4,000 he'll go out on a limb and agree to sell the bike exclusively on eBay. What a deal!
And here's the other thing, just seems like you get all this info about bikes on auction, but sellers continuously fail to provide the most important piece of information, seat tube length and top tube length c-c!
Seat tube c-t measurements without top tube measurements are somewhat worthless in my opinion.
My apologies if the seller is a forum member.
OK, I'm done!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RICHARD-SACH...item4ab7c5f2fd
https://www.ebay.com/itm/56-cm-Richar...item43b0077904
The first seller boasts that this is a no reserve auction and his minimium bid is $4,000, then indicates that the bike is for sale locally and if a bid is placed he will discontinue the local sale. Sounds like if you pony up $4,000 he'll go out on a limb and agree to sell the bike exclusively on eBay. What a deal!
And here's the other thing, just seems like you get all this info about bikes on auction, but sellers continuously fail to provide the most important piece of information, seat tube length and top tube length c-c!
Seat tube c-t measurements without top tube measurements are somewhat worthless in my opinion.
My apologies if the seller is a forum member.
OK, I'm done!
Last edited by cpsqlrwn; 05-21-12 at 09:37 AM.
05-21-12, 09:02 AM
#2
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Sachs appeal.
-Kurt
-Kurt
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05-21-12, 09:08 AM
#3
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
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The first listed - the vintage Sachs with SR for $4,000, is unlikely to sell at that price. I'd estimate its value in the 1500 - 2000 as a complete bike, maybe 2500 parted out. The frames are rare enough where value is variable.
The second Sachs, the cyclocross bike, was well worth the price as a complete bike. A newer Sachs cyclocross frame sells for $2500 pretty easily, and more from certain sellers (ATMO).
As to why they are so valuable, it's based on a couple of things:
Not many builders have the reputation of Mr. Sachs. Not many builders make each bike themselves, spending 2-3 days a frame. His frame tolerances are incredibly low.
Sachs bikes have a reputation for being top of class riders.
They are extremely rare - he's only made around 3-4,000 of them and figure some are gone or beyond the pale. People want them and the wait is 7 years...and he's not adding new customers for road bikes (with some exceptions). His new frames are over 4 grand, and there are plenty of people willing to pay it.
The second Sachs, the cyclocross bike, was well worth the price as a complete bike. A newer Sachs cyclocross frame sells for $2500 pretty easily, and more from certain sellers (ATMO).
As to why they are so valuable, it's based on a couple of things:
Not many builders have the reputation of Mr. Sachs. Not many builders make each bike themselves, spending 2-3 days a frame. His frame tolerances are incredibly low.
Sachs bikes have a reputation for being top of class riders.
They are extremely rare - he's only made around 3-4,000 of them and figure some are gone or beyond the pale. People want them and the wait is 7 years...and he's not adding new customers for road bikes (with some exceptions). His new frames are over 4 grand, and there are plenty of people willing to pay it.
05-21-12, 09:39 AM
#5
OldSchool
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05-21-12, 09:40 AM
#6
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As far as the cyclocross bike goes - notice how long the item was available - a few hours. That was actually a solid deal - think what a Kona Major Jake sells for and ask yourself what that bike will be worth in 3 years. Had I not purchased something pretty crazy last week, I'd have been in the mix for that bike.
05-21-12, 09:44 AM
#7
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My road frame rides nicely...it's a little small for me and i HATE the brake levers (I have a pair waiting for it, but never get around to it), which colors my enjoyment of the bike. It's very stable - and very point and shoot. It's VERY comfortable, but a little slower handling than the Marnati and the Titanio. Tires play a tole in that. I'm not interested in selling it - I'll say that much.
I've barely ridden the tourer...it would be unfair to offer an opinion. It felt full tourer'ish unloaded...not my favorite feeling.
I've barely ridden the tourer...it would be unfair to offer an opinion. It felt full tourer'ish unloaded...not my favorite feeling.
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 05-21-12 at 10:07 AM.
05-21-12, 09:46 AM
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The first listed - the vintage Sachs with SR for $4,000, is unlikely to sell at that price. I'd estimate its value in the 1500 - 2000 as a complete bike, maybe 2500 parted out. The frames are rare enough where value is variable.
The second Sachs, the cyclocross bike, was well worth the price as a complete bike. A newer Sachs cyclocross frame sells for $2500 pretty easily, and more from certain sellers (ATMO).
As to why they are so valuable, it's based on a couple of things:
Not many builders have the reputation of Mr. Sachs. Not many builders make each bike themselves, spending 2-3 days a frame. His frame tolerances are incredibly low.
Sachs bikes have a reputation for being top of class riders.
They are extremely rare - he's only made around 3-4,000 of them and figure some are gone or beyond the pale. People want them and the wait is 7 years...and he's not adding new customers for road bikes (with some exceptions). His new frames are over 4 grand, and there are plenty of people willing to pay it.
The second Sachs, the cyclocross bike, was well worth the price as a complete bike. A newer Sachs cyclocross frame sells for $2500 pretty easily, and more from certain sellers (ATMO).
As to why they are so valuable, it's based on a couple of things:
Not many builders have the reputation of Mr. Sachs. Not many builders make each bike themselves, spending 2-3 days a frame. His frame tolerances are incredibly low.
Sachs bikes have a reputation for being top of class riders.
They are extremely rare - he's only made around 3-4,000 of them and figure some are gone or beyond the pale. People want them and the wait is 7 years...and he's not adding new customers for road bikes (with some exceptions). His new frames are over 4 grand, and there are plenty of people willing to pay it.
...and I would pay $4,000 for a new one.
I'm feeling fortunate I won't need to.
05-21-12, 10:01 AM
#9
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I like what I bought last week, but had this been available, I'm not sure I would have made the same move. It's like choosing between reading Delillo and Vonnegut - either way you're in for a good book.
05-21-12, 10:02 AM
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05-21-12, 10:03 AM
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His point was that by having an opening bid of $4,000, he's effectively putting a $4,000 reserve on it.
05-21-12, 10:26 AM
#13
OldSchool
Thread Starter
That was the point I was making in my original post.
My Dad always taught me when negotiating, make the other person think he/she is getting something when he/she really isn't. Also be willing to give up things that really don't have any value for you (particularly when the other party thinks they have a value) and always get something back. The seller is trying to negotiate the value of there not being a reserve, but we are all aware of this falacy when he insists on a $4,000 minimum!
Way too transparent for us smart forum members!
My Dad always taught me when negotiating, make the other person think he/she is getting something when he/she really isn't. Also be willing to give up things that really don't have any value for you (particularly when the other party thinks they have a value) and always get something back. The seller is trying to negotiate the value of there not being a reserve, but we are all aware of this falacy when he insists on a $4,000 minimum!
Way too transparent for us smart forum members!
05-21-12, 10:31 AM
#14
Senior Member
As far as the cyclocross bike goes - notice how long the item was available - a few hours. That was actually a solid deal - think what a Kona Major Jake sells for and ask yourself what that bike will be worth in 3 years. Had I not purchased something pretty crazy last week, I'd have been in the mix for that bike.
05-21-12, 10:35 AM
#15
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I've seen crazier asking prices - like Panasonics with AX for 4 grand, Schwinn Varsitys for $250 and Raleigh Sports for $300
The thing with a Sachs is - it's worth taking a stab. Do I think he's likely to sell it at that number? No, BUT...there aren't many. Someone with cash might want one, and he might be tired of waiting. Waiting for a good deal on a Sachs can be a longggg wait.
The thing with a Sachs is - it's worth taking a stab. Do I think he's likely to sell it at that number? No, BUT...there aren't many. Someone with cash might want one, and he might be tired of waiting. Waiting for a good deal on a Sachs can be a longggg wait.
05-21-12, 10:50 AM
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She's been raced hard for the better part of a decade here in the Twin Cities.
Aaron, a primary enabler here, set me straight.
Thanks again buddy!
05-21-12, 10:54 AM
#17
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LOL - you do the same (and more) for me. I really needed the push last week...and you and Fender were great sounding boards.
05-21-12, 11:00 AM
#18
OldSchool
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05-21-12, 11:57 AM
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