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Another C&V Tandem Story: 1982 Santana

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Another C&V Tandem Story: 1982 Santana

Old 06-22-12, 06:40 AM
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Another C&V Tandem Story: 1982 Santana

Earlier this week I brought this beauty home, a 1982 Santana Tandem. It was a gift from Bob & Jane, members of my church, who I met at my first call after seminary, almost 30 years ago, in August 1982, in Ridgewood, NJ. There's a lot more to the story so I'll make it optional reading on my website. Instead I'll let the pictures do most of the speaking here on C&V. As I brought it home.



I can never decide: Which side do you photograph a tandem?
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Old 06-22-12, 06:42 AM
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A few more photos and thoughts.


Beautiful fillet brazed construction. Original LBS sticker. Matching stoker stem.



"Santana" branded elliptical and fork crown.
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Old 06-22-12, 06:45 AM
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...and the final batch (for now). All of these pictures are as I brought it home. As the thread develops I'll tell a little about what I've learned, so far.





A mix of pristine TA, Mafac, Phil Wood tandem hubs, Specialized, and Suntour bits.




A "Jim" Blackburn rear rack! A like new Arai drag brake. The chains are like new.
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Old 06-22-12, 06:50 AM
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Looks like a nice machine PB and absolutely love the color. And to receive it as a gift? WOW! I'm nearly speechless.

It is a 700c bike, correct? What is the spacing on the dropouts? What are the seatpost sizes? It looks like a pretty big bike to my eye.

To get good photographs of a tandem, get pictures of both sides. It is​ confusing, isn't it?
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Old 06-22-12, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
...and the final batch (for now). All of these pictures are as I brought it home. As the thread develops I'll tell a little about what I've learned, so far.

A mix of pristine TA, Mafac, Phil Wood tandem hubs, Specialized, and Suntour bits.

A "Jim" Blackburn rear rack! A like new Arai drag brake. The chains are like new.
Would you mind taking some pictures of the Phil hubs? I'd be willing to bet they are the same as on my Davidson.
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Old 06-22-12, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by photogravity View Post
Looks like a nice machine PB and absolutely love the color. And to receive it as a gift? WOW! I'm nearly speechless.

It is a 700c bike, correct? What is the spacing on the dropouts? What are the seatpost sizes? It looks like a pretty big bike to my eye.

To get good photographs of a tandem, get pictures of both sides. It is​ confusing, isn't it?
Dallas, I've not measured anything just yet. It does run 27" rubber, which is cracked and needs to be replaced. I did ride it up and down the street with my daughter's BF, so everything works. I have read a post here on BF-Tandems from Bill McReady, founder and owner of Santana that 700c wheels will work with the original Mafac cantilevers.

At the moment I plan to stick with the 48 hole Phil Wood Tandem hubs. I have a set of Michelin World Sport 27" tires to mount. They are about the widest 27" tires to be found. Not all that highend, but they are on hand.

I'll try to take some hub pictures later today. There is a little bit of pitting which is not unusual on these old Phils.
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Old 06-22-12, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Dallas, I've not measured anything just yet. It does run 27" rubber, which is cracked and needs to be replaced. I did ride it up and down the street with my daughter's BF, so everything works. I have read a post here on BF-Tandems from Bill McReady, founder and owner of Santana that 700c wheels will work with the original Mafac cantilevers.

At the moment I plan to stick with the 48 hole Phil Wood Tandem hubs. I have a set of Michelin World Sport 27" tires to mount. They are about the widest 27" tires to be found. Not all that highend, but they are on hand.

I'll try to take some hub pictures later today. There is a little bit of pitting which is not unusual on these old Phils.
I would stay with the Phil hubs, they are smooth and bulletproof. As far as the tires, I'm guessing you actually meant Michelin World Tour. If that's what you meant, I think they're a real bargain and quite underrated by some here on the forums. I'll be looking forward to the pictures of the hubs!
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Old 06-22-12, 07:14 AM
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Yes, Michelin World Tour, is what I meant. And yes, I'll stick with the Phil hubs. Hardly anything out there that is better.
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Old 06-22-12, 07:26 AM
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<Slobbers> A tandem like that is my dream... With Mafac cantis and TA crank it's even nicer than a new Arriva in my opinion! How's that Arai hub working out? I could never get mine to work properly. Granted, it was from 1972 but still...
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Old 06-22-12, 07:31 AM
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As you are a man of the cloth, I'll refrain from being jealous. Also it's too big for me.
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Old 06-22-12, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by VeloBrox View Post
<Slobbers> A tandem like that is my dream... With Mafac cantis and TA crank it's even nicer than a new Arriva in my opinion! How's that Arai hub working out? I could never get mine to work properly. Granted, it was from 1972 but still...
My dream as well. A few years ago I upgraded a Schwinn Twinn Sport. Believe it or not I made it heavier by adding chrome fenders, a rack, steel bars. It weighs over 60lbs. It would be fine to ride in a flat area, but not here in the mountains.

After experimenting with the Schwinn, I decided my next tandem would either be an early Santana or a 1970s Schwinn Paramount, with the Santana as first choice. Fortunately no tandem Paramounts revelaed themselves!

I've not weighed the Santana but I'm guessing about 35lbs.

Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
As you are a man of the cloth, I'll refrain from being jealous. Also it's too big for me.
It is big! I barely fit on it. The original owner was 6'5" ( he has shrunk to 6'2" or 3" as he has aged into his 70s). His wife was about 5'5" and my wife is 5'4." It will be a close fit.
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Old 06-22-12, 12:09 PM
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That fillet brazing is beautiful and the color is fantastic, congrats on the acquisition! I've got a Santana Vision (MTB) that gets ridden pretty often, but I'd really rather have a road/touring tandem like this.
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Old 06-22-12, 02:58 PM
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I have to say that while I am not drawn to actually riding tandems, a well designed one really is something lovely to behold. How exciting for you! I'd kind of like to see a snazzier (red) bar wrap color...
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Old 06-22-12, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris_in_Miami View Post
That fillet brazing is beautiful and the color is fantastic, congrats on the acquisition! I've got a Santana Vision (MTB) that gets ridden pretty often, but I'd really rather have a road/touring tandem like this.
Thanks Chris. I do remember seeing your Santana in previous posts. It is a great looking bike.

photogravity asked for pictures of the Phil Wood hubs. I had the wheels off today to mount the new tires. The hub axles spin like new.





I just love the font on this decal. It is so late '70s!



Turns out it has the same decal on the headtube and the two seat tubes. Looks inspired by a Turkish rug.

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Old 06-22-12, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Dallas, I've not measured anything just yet. It does run 27" rubber, I have read a post here on BF-Tandems from Bill McReady, founder and owner of Santana that 700c wheels will work with the original Mafac cantilevers.
Lovely time capsule of a tandem.
Note that Mafac cantilevers (and thier modern botique CX copies) do not actually have an adjustment for repositioning the pad&post height for another wheel size. Best that can be done with them would be is to angle the pad+post downward from the arm to the smaller diameter rim but then the pad will not stike the rim flat, you would need to grind the contact surface of the pads at an angle to hit the rim more squarly. I dont see a particularly compelling reason to swap from 27" to 700c for this bike. The fork and chainstay clearances are already very big, moving to slightly smaller diameter rims would only make the gaps bigger with no real benefit other than increased tire selection.

Note that wide angle cantilevers (such as Mafac) dont actually have as much mechanical advantage as later designed narrow angle cantilevers. Excellent technical dissertation on cantilever disigns here; http://www.circleacycles.com/cantile...i-geometry.pdf
If strict adherance to C&V authenticity is less of a concern than having strong brakes, switch to some medium or narrow angle cantilevers (such as from later 1980s/early 1990s MTB). Some of the early dia-comp medium angle cantilevers still look acceptably C&V and would provide much better stopping power. Some designs also have provision for up/down adjustment of the pad&post so might better accomidate 700c wheels if you did decide to switch.
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Old 06-22-12, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
Lovely time capsule of a tandem.
Note that Mafac cantilevers (and thier modern botique CX copies) do not actually have an adjustment for repositioning the pad&post height for another wheel size. Best that can be done with them would be is to angle the pad+post downward from the arm to the smaller diameter rim but then the pad will not stike the rim flat, you would need to grind the contact surface of the pads at an angle to hit the rim more squarly. I dont see a particularly compelling reason to swap from 27" to 700c for this bike. The fork and chainstay clearances are already very big, moving to slightly smaller diameter rims would only make the gaps bigger with no real benefit other than increased tire selection.

Note that wide angle cantilevers (such as Mafac) dont actually have as much mechanical advantage as later designed narrow angle cantilevers. Excellent technical dissertation on cantilever disigns here; http://www.circleacycles.com/cantile...i-geometry.pdf
If strict adherance to C&V authenticity is less of a concern than having strong brakes, switch to some medium or narrow angle cantilevers (such as from later 1980s/early 1990s MTB). Some of the early dia-comp medium angle cantilevers still look acceptably C&V and would provide much better stopping power. Some designs also have provision for up/down adjustment of the pad&post so might better accomidate 700c wheels if you did decide to switch.
Excellent advice. But, if you do want to make the switch to 700c our slightly newer Santana Elan came with Shimano Cantis that appear to have enough adjustment to accomodate 700c Wheels. (We also have 27" currently.) We put 27 x 1.25 Continental Gatorskins on ours and they are working out great for us so far. Great story and beautiful bike!
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Old 06-22-12, 06:06 PM
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Bob, as you a man of the cloth I will refrain from using too many expletives except to say holy, err, cow! We absolutely must get together for a tandem ride. Your bike is a contemporary to ours, in some ways very similar and in some ways quite different.

A few observations. Yours is rigged with the double-cable right-hand lever like ours. FWIW, it works pretty well, but when I really want to stop hard I use the drum too. Come to think of it, I tend to use the drum too most of the time.

Those gears look decidedly performance oriented.

Re the tires, we run 32x700c Pasela TGs on ours. So far they have worked very well. Over in the tandems forum there is huge difference in the sizes people say they prefer. Which is another way of saying you can run just about anything.
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Old 06-22-12, 06:13 PM
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can an atheist be a pastor too?
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Old 06-22-12, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by illwafer View Post
can an atheist be a pastor too?
Yes. A Unitarian-Universalist pastor.

Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
Bob, as you a man of the cloth I will refrain from using too many expletives except to say holy, err, cow! We absolutely must get together for a tandem ride. Your bike is a contemporary to ours, in some ways very similar and in some ways quite different.

A few observations. Yours is rigged with the double-cable right-hand lever like ours. FWIW, it works pretty well, but when I really want to stop hard I use the drum too. Come to think of it, I tend to use the drum too most of the time.

Those gears look decidedly performance oriented.

Re the tires, we run 32x700c Pasela TGs on ours. So far they have worked very well. Over in the tandems forum there is huge difference in the sizes people say they prefer. Which is another way of saying you can run just about anything.
The 49 tooth TA chainring needs to be changed out for a 40-42. The Suntour tandem freewheel has a 34 tooth big cog. I need to run a gear calculator on this set up.

I installed the 27 X 1 & 1/4 Michelin World Tour gumwalls this afternoon. They have to be the biggest 27" tires available! Seem to be very cushy and sturdy. Should work well on our rail trail.

Yes we need to get together. Ginger will need to work up to Sharon's ability.

Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
Lovely time capsule of a tandem.
Note that Mafac cantilevers (and thier modern botique CX copies) do not actually have an adjustment for repositioning the pad&post height for another wheel size. Best that can be done with them would be is to angle the pad+post downward from the arm to the smaller diameter rim but then the pad will not stike the rim flat, you would need to grind the contact surface of the pads at an angle to hit the rim more squarly. I dont see a particularly compelling reason to swap from 27" to 700c for this bike. The fork and chainstay clearances are already very big, moving to slightly smaller diameter rims would only make the gaps bigger with no real benefit other than increased tire selection.

Note that wide angle cantilevers (such as Mafac) dont actually have as much mechanical advantage as later designed narrow angle cantilevers. Excellent technical dissertation on cantilever disigns here; http://www.circleacycles.com/cantile...i-geometry.pdf
If strict adherance to C&V authenticity is less of a concern than having strong brakes, switch to some medium or narrow angle cantilevers (such as from later 1980s/early 1990s MTB). Some of the early dia-comp medium angle cantilevers still look acceptably C&V and would provide much better stopping power. Some designs also have provision for up/down adjustment of the pad&post so might better accomidate 700c wheels if you did decide to switch.
Thanks for the tips on the cantilevers. I don't have much experience with them. I believe I do have a spare set of modern cantis I could try out, if needed. I need to install new pads. These are really hard.
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Old 06-22-12, 06:49 PM
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As with most everything bike, sheldon had a page devouted to tandem brakes, many good ideas
http://sheldonbrown.com/tandem-brakes.html

Front and rear Mafacs actuated by a single brake lever sounds like a recipe for poor braking and control. I like the idea of giving over control of the drag brake to the passanger, captain gets standard seperate F&R levers for the cantilevers.
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Old 06-22-12, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
As with most everything bike, sheldon had a page devouted to tandem brakes, many good ideas
http://sheldonbrown.com/tandem-brakes.html

Front and rear Mafacs actuated by a single brake lever sounds like a recipe for poor braking and control. I like the idea of giving over control of the drag brake to the passanger, captain gets standard seperate F&R levers for the cantilevers.
I'm kind of thinking along these lines as well. Will Tectro brake levers work on cantilevers? I have a spare set.
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Old 06-22-12, 07:56 PM
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Beautiful tandem, PB! Can't wait to read the ride report.

Are there societal influences on which person in a relationship should be the stoker?


...Either way, the fillet brazing looks wonderful.
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Old 06-22-12, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Will Tectro brake levers work on cantilevers?
No. They will catch fire if they come in contact.

Actually, there doesn't seem to be much control issue over the dual-cable setup. That's how ours is listed in the '82 Peugeot catalogs, FWIW, so the factory thought it must be okay. The trick is to have adjusters on the cables and keep them such that both brakes contact the rims at the same time. Neither wheel is likely to skid anyway and you aren't going to flip over forward.
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Old 06-22-12, 08:07 PM
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Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte

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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Thanks Chris. I do remember seeing your Santana in previous posts. It is a great looking bike.

photogravity asked for pictures of the Phil Wood hubs. I had the wheels off today to mount the new tires. The hub axles spin like new.

I just love the font on this decal. It is so late '70s!

Turns out it has the same decal on the headtube and the two seat tubes. Looks inspired by a Turkish rug.
Yes, I think they are the same hubs as on my Davidson. They must have been a commonly used part at the time.

I agree, the graphics are very neat and definitely reflect the design sensibilities of that era.
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Old 06-22-12, 08:11 PM
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Ed in Toronto
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I like the Champagne color, beautiful bike.
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