When is it a ghost and not a Brooks?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,081
Bikes: Many
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
10 Posts
When is it a ghost and not a Brooks?
I have a couple of "beyond gone" leather Brooks saddles. The first one I tried to do something with simply just got worse and just looks like beef jerkey. I think it's too oily.
I know a couple of the brain trusts here can make new covers and the one mentioned above will have to be recovered.
This was was soaked in water (which took only seconds) and reshaped and dried again. As you can see, the cover is cracked.
I read a thread, perhaps years ago where someone had sanded the surface of a toasted Brooks and treated it somehow. I was also thinking of sanding it except the logo and using shellac to try to re-tan it. I am sure it will still be useless but I have others to use on ride days.
Any ideas?
29 863 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
I know a couple of the brain trusts here can make new covers and the one mentioned above will have to be recovered.
This was was soaked in water (which took only seconds) and reshaped and dried again. As you can see, the cover is cracked.
I read a thread, perhaps years ago where someone had sanded the surface of a toasted Brooks and treated it somehow. I was also thinking of sanding it except the logo and using shellac to try to re-tan it. I am sure it will still be useless but I have others to use on ride days.
Any ideas?
29 863 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
#2
Hopelessly addicted...
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Maryland
Posts: 4,955
Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
When is it a ghost and not a Brooks?
To my eye, the saddle looks like it can be revived. How to go about doing that, I'm not sure. I love those old Brooks saddles.
#3
Get off my lawn!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,031
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 98 Times
in
48 Posts
Nice oval badged Brooks FT. My only good experience with a saddle of that condition was to Proofhide it, then I applied tan shoe polish and buffed it. Looks old, cared for and ****ions well. My son has it on his daily rider. It's 'patina' cracks. lines and all, look appropriate to the age of the bike and he puts it to good use.
The bad experience was with a dried out Wright's that I let soal up proofhide for a week. The result was a very soft and supple saddle that I had to lace to keep it from becoming an a$$ hammock.
IMO, I wouldn't sand it, let it's age show.
The bad experience was with a dried out Wright's that I let soal up proofhide for a week. The result was a very soft and supple saddle that I had to lace to keep it from becoming an a$$ hammock.
IMO, I wouldn't sand it, let it's age show.
#4
perpetually frazzled
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Linton, IN
Posts: 2,467
Bikes: 1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
If you shellac it, the shellac will crack. I tried it on tan cork bar tape, and it was cracking within a week.
#5
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
I have a couple saddles on which the top surface has cracked and crazed like dried mud, countless little flakes, all curling up at the edges, separated from one another by shallow cracks. In other words, the surface has turned into something completely different. With something like that, you can use sandpaper to remove the flakes and smooth the underlying surface. Then, I suppose, you can add some kind of coating to put a new, artificial, surface on the leather. I would not bother. When a saddle gets to that point, it is time to put new leather on it.
For what it's worth, I've only seen this on Ideale saddles. I think they put some kind of surface treatment on the leather, which in time destroyed the surface completely. Here, look:
See, it's an Ideale 80! pretty lovely, eh?
Your saddle is not that bad. You have surface cracks, but the surface is still present. Beyond reshaping it, and applying some neatsfoot oil and/or proofide, I don't think it needs much. If you want to put a nice sheen on it, beeswax is pretty safe. There are other things you can try, such as tung oil furniture polish, but I don't know what effect this will have on the surface.
What you have, of course, is a museum piece. I would not ride it under any circumstances, unless you want to put new leather on it anyway (which I'd be happy to do for you). I think this saddle is worth more to you in its present condition than if it were turned into an essentially new saddle.
As for that Ideale in the photos above, well, I made something useful out of it. Here it is with new leather:
For what it's worth, I've only seen this on Ideale saddles. I think they put some kind of surface treatment on the leather, which in time destroyed the surface completely. Here, look:
See, it's an Ideale 80! pretty lovely, eh?
Your saddle is not that bad. You have surface cracks, but the surface is still present. Beyond reshaping it, and applying some neatsfoot oil and/or proofide, I don't think it needs much. If you want to put a nice sheen on it, beeswax is pretty safe. There are other things you can try, such as tung oil furniture polish, but I don't know what effect this will have on the surface.
What you have, of course, is a museum piece. I would not ride it under any circumstances, unless you want to put new leather on it anyway (which I'd be happy to do for you). I think this saddle is worth more to you in its present condition than if it were turned into an essentially new saddle.
As for that Ideale in the photos above, well, I made something useful out of it. Here it is with new leather:
Last edited by rhm; 12-19-12 at 07:33 AM. Reason: Maybe it wasn't clear, I put new leather on that Ideale!
#6
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,882
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked 2,194 Times
in
962 Posts
Frank, shellac is not the answer unless you plan to never ride it. Even then, something like Tung Oil I think would be better. rhm* needs to check in on this conversation.
EDIT: *He did! He did!
EDIT: *He did! He did!
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times
in
27 Posts
Can maybe a suede type finish be more easily achieved instead of trying to revive the original smooth/polished surface??
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,238
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 830 Post(s)
Liked 2,123 Times
in
554 Posts
Here is some advice I'm re-quoting from blaise_f, who really knows his way around leather:
(Quote from this thread.)
For what it's worth, I had a fair amount of success reviving (not quite restoring) a well-worn Ideale saddle. There are still some cracks, mostly on the sides, which I did not try addressing using the advice above. However, after soaking in a bucket of water for a couple hours, then reshaping, and adding some proofhide, the saddle has remained hard and I'm optimistic I will get many more miles of usage.
Before:
After:
For what it's worth, I had a fair amount of success reviving (not quite restoring) a well-worn Ideale saddle. There are still some cracks, mostly on the sides, which I did not try addressing using the advice above. However, after soaking in a bucket of water for a couple hours, then reshaping, and adding some proofhide, the saddle has remained hard and I'm optimistic I will get many more miles of usage.
Before:
After:
__________________
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times
in
27 Posts
What if you laminate some sort of reinforcing membrane under the old leather to buy it some more life...maybe a material simialr to what Gyes/VO has in their new leather saddles?? Or maybe you can use a thin new leather piece and bond it on with contact cement...maybe...??
#10
Cisalpinist
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,557
Bikes: blue ones.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
11 Posts
I have a couple saddles on which the top surface has cracked and crazed like dried mud, countless little flakes, all curling up at the edges, separated from one another by shallow cracks. In other words, the surface has turned into something completely different. With something like that, you can use sandpaper to remove the flakes and smooth the underlying surface. Then, I suppose, you can add some kind of coating to put a new, artificial, surface on the leather. I would not bother. When a saddle gets to that point, it is time to put new leather on it.
For what it's worth, I've only seen this on Ideale saddles. I think they put some kind of surface treatment on the leather, which in time destroyed the surface completely. Here, look:
See, it's an Ideale 80! pretty lovely, eh?
Your saddle is not that bad. You have surface cracks, but the surface is still present. Beyond reshaping it, and applying some neatsfoot oil and/or proofide, I don't think it needs much. If you want to put a nice sheen on it, beeswax is pretty safe. There are other things you can try, such as tung oil furniture polish, but I don't know what effect this will have on the surface.
What you have, of course, is a museum piece. I would not ride it under any circumstances, unless you want to put new leather on it anyway (which I'd be happy to do for you). I think this saddle is worth more to you in its present condition than if it were turned into an essentially new saddle.
As for that Ideale in the photos above, well, I made something useful out of it:
For what it's worth, I've only seen this on Ideale saddles. I think they put some kind of surface treatment on the leather, which in time destroyed the surface completely. Here, look:
See, it's an Ideale 80! pretty lovely, eh?
Your saddle is not that bad. You have surface cracks, but the surface is still present. Beyond reshaping it, and applying some neatsfoot oil and/or proofide, I don't think it needs much. If you want to put a nice sheen on it, beeswax is pretty safe. There are other things you can try, such as tung oil furniture polish, but I don't know what effect this will have on the surface.
What you have, of course, is a museum piece. I would not ride it under any circumstances, unless you want to put new leather on it anyway (which I'd be happy to do for you). I think this saddle is worth more to you in its present condition than if it were turned into an essentially new saddle.
As for that Ideale in the photos above, well, I made something useful out of it:
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,081
Bikes: Many
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
10 Posts
Well, these saddles have really brightened my day! It looks like neets foot oil and bee's wax will be my first step. Thanks!
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NYC+NNJ
Posts: 1,302
Bikes: i don't have a bike. a few frames, forks and some parts. that's all
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times
in
33 Posts
1. sand it til you can hardly see the cracks - as much as possible. don't worry about losing shines.
2. apply generous amount of leather food e.g) Pecard. leave it for a day or two. do it again. repeat like for a week.
3. buff it til it gets shine using cotton towel
this is how i got my 50 year old Adga re-shined. it was in quite hopeless shape.
before
sanded
dressing + dressing
after
on
2. apply generous amount of leather food e.g) Pecard. leave it for a day or two. do it again. repeat like for a week.
3. buff it til it gets shine using cotton towel
this is how i got my 50 year old Adga re-shined. it was in quite hopeless shape.
before
sanded
dressing + dressing
after
on
Last edited by orangeology; 12-19-12 at 04:31 AM. Reason: adding photo
#14
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,882
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked 2,194 Times
in
962 Posts
Rudi made a new leather top. He turned this Ideale I found in the dump into the saddle you see below!
Here it is after a season of riding.
Here it is after a season of riding.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 12-19-12 at 09:27 PM.
#16
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Normal, Illinois
Posts: 2,714
Bikes: Trek 600 ,1980Raleigh Competition G.S., 1986 Schwinn Passage, Facet Biotour 2000, Falcon San Remo 531,Schwinn Sierra, Sun Seeker tricycle recumbent,1985 Bianchi Squadra
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
A hide scraper , a leather treating tool normally used for the back of the leather surface before tanning, works well for this . It is shaped like a crescent moon, with a handle added in the middle of the inside curve. You can very carefully remove the treated , finished layer , only about a 64th of an inch thick, and expose the unfinished hide underneath , suede leather .
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,081
Bikes: Many
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
10 Posts
What if you laminate some sort of reinforcing membrane under the old leather to buy it some more life...maybe a material simialr to what Gyes/VO has in their new leather saddles?? Or maybe you can use a thin new leather piece and bond it on with contact cement...maybe...??
Orangeology has a great result. That looks awesome.
The new covers are sublime. That is really beautiful work. Rudy did that?
We should get together and make a bike.
Last edited by ftwelder; 12-19-12 at 05:51 PM.
#19
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times
in
1,432 Posts
It took you this long to think of that? The two of you, working together, would be unstoppable.
We really must find a way to make this happen. I'll drive you, Rudi.
Frank, I have one of RHM's saddles. I think it's #23. I've abused it, and it looks bad, but it's a great, great saddle.
We really must find a way to make this happen. I'll drive you, Rudi.
Frank, I have one of RHM's saddles. I think it's #23. I've abused it, and it looks bad, but it's a great, great saddle.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#20
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,882
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked 2,194 Times
in
962 Posts
It took you this long to think of that? The two of you, working together, would be unstoppable.
We really must find a way to make this happen. I'll drive you, Rudi.
Frank, I have one of RHM's saddles. I think it's #23. I've abused it, and it looks bad, but it's a great, great saddle.
We really must find a way to make this happen. I'll drive you, Rudi.
Frank, I have one of RHM's saddles. I think it's #23. I've abused it, and it looks bad, but it's a great, great saddle.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#21
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
Don't worry about it, Bob! I need data on how they stand up to abuse. Tom can do anything he wants to that saddle, as long as tells us what he did, and posts photos.
#22
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,882
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked 2,194 Times
in
962 Posts
Edit: I added an updated picture above.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 12-19-12 at 09:28 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
deepinahartatx
Classic & Vintage
5
11-10-13 11:48 AM
Standard Issue
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
7
10-13-11 08:58 AM