Reality Check - It Really Adds Up..?
12-20-12 | 04:19 PM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 10
From: vermont
Bikes: Many
I had three hobbies running concurrently, two of them very expensive, and one only moderately expensive. I finally abandoned photography and model railroading as being too expensive to continue at a meaningful level. Bike restoration can cost a lot of money, but I'm also seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. I'm buying the necessary tools as I go along, and I'll only have to buy them once. I'm making fewer mistakes as my knowledge expands, so there are fewer butchered parts that must be replaced.
My first foray into C/V involved going out and paying top dollar for a bike that was already 75%. I just didn't have the patience to wait for a 'bargain'. Before I could get started on the first bike, I found a deal on Craigslist, and that one will be done first. My '$100 bike' has already doubled in price with the purchase of correct bars and levers, and will cost a bit more for proper-looking skinwall tires. With the addition of bar tape, cables, brake pads, and a few other miscellaneous items, I'll be into it for about $350.00 plus a bunch of sweat equity, which in my case isn't all that valuable.
Is it worth it? From a purely economic standpoint, probably not. On the other hand, I've had more fun with that $350.00 than I ever had with cameras or model trains, and when you compare the quality of my $350.00 bike to ANYTHING being sold these days for under $1,000.00, it looks like a steal. Will I do it again? You betcha'.
My first foray into C/V involved going out and paying top dollar for a bike that was already 75%. I just didn't have the patience to wait for a 'bargain'. Before I could get started on the first bike, I found a deal on Craigslist, and that one will be done first. My '$100 bike' has already doubled in price with the purchase of correct bars and levers, and will cost a bit more for proper-looking skinwall tires. With the addition of bar tape, cables, brake pads, and a few other miscellaneous items, I'll be into it for about $350.00 plus a bunch of sweat equity, which in my case isn't all that valuable.
Is it worth it? From a purely economic standpoint, probably not. On the other hand, I've had more fun with that $350.00 than I ever had with cameras or model trains, and when you compare the quality of my $350.00 bike to ANYTHING being sold these days for under $1,000.00, it looks like a steal. Will I do it again? You betcha'.
12-20-12 | 04:26 PM
#27
KingoftheMountain wannabe
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 1
From: Independence, Oregon
Bikes: V.O. Pass Hunter & Specialized Hardrock
You've probably spent too much on it already, and will spend a great deal more to get it just how you want. I suggest you mail it to me with all the parts, I'll pay shipping, so you can keep yourself from spending more.
To be truthful, the bike looks like it's worth it....if you are going to ride it or give it to someone to ride. I doubt many people are able to get as much profit out of bike that they would like when built this way if you are going to sell it. The real payoff is putting together a great bike and getting to ride it now and then.
To be truthful, the bike looks like it's worth it....if you are going to ride it or give it to someone to ride. I doubt many people are able to get as much profit out of bike that they would like when built this way if you are going to sell it. The real payoff is putting together a great bike and getting to ride it now and then.
12-20-12 | 04:40 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,175
Likes: 18
From: Queens NYC
Bikes: Colnago Super, Basso Gap, Pogliaghi, Fabio Barecci, Torelli Pista, Miyata 1400A
Show me a guy that hasn't spent to much on his hobby, and I'll show you a guy that isn't really into his hobby!
I think we all have to lighten-up on ourselves abit. I mean, this is a hobby, or even a passion, so yeah, at times it's going to cost you some real money. And yes, you might overpay to get exactly what you want, but IMHO, that's OK as long as it isn't coming out of the kids college fund or the mortgage payment. For most of us C&Ver's, life and our riding time is getting shorter by the day, so make the bike exactly the way you want it to be, or buy that bike you've always wanted and stop worrying so much about "whats it worth"...
I think we all have to lighten-up on ourselves abit. I mean, this is a hobby, or even a passion, so yeah, at times it's going to cost you some real money. And yes, you might overpay to get exactly what you want, but IMHO, that's OK as long as it isn't coming out of the kids college fund or the mortgage payment. For most of us C&Ver's, life and our riding time is getting shorter by the day, so make the bike exactly the way you want it to be, or buy that bike you've always wanted and stop worrying so much about "whats it worth"...
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It never gets easier, you just go faster. ~ Greg LeMond
12-20-12 | 04:54 PM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,841
Likes: 1
From: NZ
Bikes: More than 1, but, less than S-1
There are a lot of rules to life about what one should or should not do. If one subscribes to logical thinking an awful lot of our decissions are dictated to us. The most important thing is to recognize when to break the rules and set logic aside. That's usually right about the time when living begins.
Restorations such as this one should be undertaken for reasons that don't make financial sense. Congratulations!
Restorations such as this one should be undertaken for reasons that don't make financial sense. Congratulations!
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
12-20-12 | 05:10 PM
#32
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,567
Likes: 2,740
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
I was in your shoes 16 years ago Randy. $5 at a garage sale plus $600 for chrome, Dupont Imron paint, gfx and parts. No regrets.
...is one of the reasons that all reason has left me on this build.
And this...
...is the other reason!
For me, this build is fun and fun cannot be over rated, but my initial point was that sometimes you don't realize how much the fun is actually costing.
Had I realized, right from the get-go, that this bike was going to set me back so much, it would have been offered in the for sale forum immediately. None the less, it has been a long time since I actually spent any money on myself. Guess its my turn:-)
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"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
12-20-12 | 05:14 PM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,175
Likes: 18
From: Queens NYC
Bikes: Colnago Super, Basso Gap, Pogliaghi, Fabio Barecci, Torelli Pista, Miyata 1400A
12-20-12 | 05:25 PM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 10
From: vermont
Bikes: Many
Clubman, Randy and the rest , we all know what living is as there is no pleasure that is not your own pleasure. I for one tend to take things as they come and pay as I go. Once you have owned a bike of such caliber, what it took to get there isn't relevant. I do without cable TV and the latest automobile and maintain a decent collection of bikes and manufacturing machines and eat amazing food. I think you "got it goin on" as they say.
12-20-12 | 05:36 PM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,495
Likes: 4,912
From: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, 86 De Rosa Pro, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Randy, that bike will be fantastic and worth every penny. Your real problem with costs will be the vintage clothes you will need for riding..... I see wool knickers, mayber a striped wool jersey and a jaunty cap in your future.
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Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
12-20-12 | 06:53 PM
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 25
From: The First State.
Bikes: Schwinn Continental, Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn High Plains, Schwinn World Sport, Trek 420, Trek 930,Trek 660, Novara X-R, Giant Iguana. Fuji Sagres mixte.
"It is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and occupation which give happiness" - Thomas Jefferson
It's a game to try to keep the costs down on a personal build but in the end it's the final result that matters.
It's a game to try to keep the costs down on a personal build but in the end it's the final result that matters.
12-20-12 | 09:02 PM
#38
Retro Grouch
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 3
From: Santa Cruz
Bikes: Yes
"Always buy the best, you'll never be disappointed." I can't tell how much money I've wasted buying something that was a compromise and eventually paying more money replacing it with what I really wanted..
Last edited by onespeedbiker; 12-20-12 at 09:19 PM.
12-22-12 | 06:42 AM
#40
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,567
Likes: 2,740
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
It's easiest to keep it cheap if you don't care what the paint looks like.
Patina only happens once.
Patina only happens once.
Anyway, my much nicer head badge showed up yesterday. The frame has been straightened but still needs a tweak or two. I would ask one thing, though. Any chance I could see a better picture of how the front brake is mounted on that blue beauty clubman?
I have a NOS set of brakes, and even though only the rear was specified for the bike, I might consider installing the front one also. THX.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
12-22-12 | 12:22 PM
#41
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 149
Likes: 3
From: Berkeley, CA
Bikes: 1988 Miyata 615, 1985 Team Miyata
Seems like we're all (willing) victims of the syndrome. I myself am poor, so that tends to create a practical ceiling to my spending, but even so I've spent more than I intended or imagined I would on many a build. When I started this hobby I'd keep track of spending in my head or on hastily written notes (post-its, napkins), but after a while I got organized and started keeping a running excel spreadsheet for each project. As soon as I buy a bike or a frame, or oftentimes even beforehand, I'll forecast all my expected costs. Very often that'll force me to re-evaluate the direction of the project and bring my plans down to earth.
The other nice thing about this is that now I have a record of expenses and revenue stretching back for over a year (20 or 30 bikes' worth). Looking back over those spreadsheets is instructive. One thing I can tell for sure, although I guess I already suspected as much, is that the more time and money I invest in a project, the less likely I am to turn a profit or even break even.
The other nice thing about this is that now I have a record of expenses and revenue stretching back for over a year (20 or 30 bikes' worth). Looking back over those spreadsheets is instructive. One thing I can tell for sure, although I guess I already suspected as much, is that the more time and money I invest in a project, the less likely I am to turn a profit or even break even.
12-22-12 | 01:01 PM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,303
Likes: 60
From: Detroit
Seems like we're all (willing) victims of the syndrome. I myself am poor, so that tends to create a practical ceiling to my spending, but even so I've spent more than I intended or imagined I would on many a build. When I started this hobby I'd keep track of spending in my head or on hastily written notes (post-its, napkins), but after a while I got organized and started keeping a running excel spreadsheet for each project. As soon as I buy a bike or a frame, or oftentimes even beforehand, I'll forecast all my expected costs. Very often that'll force me to re-evaluate the direction of the project and bring my plans down to earth.
The other nice thing about this is that now I have a record of expenses and revenue stretching back for over a year (20 or 30 bikes' worth). Looking back over those spreadsheets is instructive. One thing I can tell for sure, although I guess I already suspected as much, is that the more time and money I invest in a project, the less likely I am to turn a profit or even break even.
The other nice thing about this is that now I have a record of expenses and revenue stretching back for over a year (20 or 30 bikes' worth). Looking back over those spreadsheets is instructive. One thing I can tell for sure, although I guess I already suspected as much, is that the more time and money I invest in a project, the less likely I am to turn a profit or even break even.
Insofar as complete record keeping goes, I think a lot of people tend to exclude the cost of their own transportation, shipping costs on components, and the true market value of replacement parts they regularly source from their own "stash".
They might be surprised to see how slim the margins actually are. (Assuming they're doing thorough restorations with quality components, and/ they're not simply parting-out bikes.)
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- Auchen
- Auchen
12-22-12 | 01:12 PM
#44
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 624
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas, NV
Bikes: 1949 'Italian' , 1950 San Giusto, 1897 Union, and a number of "projects"... 198? Grandis, a couple of Mixte's...
I would agree with your statement...it's true.....always buy the best and nicest condition you can afford...it will almost always cost more to restore or refinish...... With one exception......those of us who derive our enjoyment and satisfaction from the process ! I love to take something in poor, but savable condition, and bring it back to life, if you will.... I thoroughly enjoy the process !!
Joe
12-22-12 | 01:35 PM
#46
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,698
Likes: 6
From: Tampa Bay, Florida
Bikes: 87 Bridgestone 550 (Shocking Electric Metallic Pink)
Costs do get ridiculous VERY quickly, even when one is cutting corners and trying to keep costs down. Just wrapped up fixing a friend's old KIA roadbike, he hadn't ridden it in a few years. Clean and lube...FINE, all bearings ok, even the chain OK, but cables, tires, new Used handlebars (uprights instead of drops....he had bubblewrap taped to the flats, so I asked him and he said he NEVER rode in the drops...he is about 70!) and he wanted fenders, found some used for $10, made some brackets....about $60 for a bike worth....about $50...but it now runs smooth, brakes OK (chrome rims with the stamped checkerboard sides...makes for loud stopping), had it up to 25mph, ran it 10 miles on some rough streets, enough to get a fender to rattle....stuffed some rubber between the fender and brace, it went away....tis a hobby....I rarely MAKE money, this one I did and got a Schwinn Suburban in trade for work...if I went golfing, I'd spend $30 for a few hours of "Hobby", This bike, lots of hours and I broke even....:-) as long as one is helping folks out and having fun....perhaps even breaking even....ONE thing I have learned, be patient, I try to get bargains, or used parts, getting in a HURRY, costs a LOT of Dollars....I have got some great deals on CL by being patient and waiting....and acting QUICKLY when something CHEAP pops up....
Last edited by RubberLegs; 12-22-12 at 01:38 PM.
12-22-12 | 01:37 PM
#47
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 14
From: Maidstone, Kent, England
Bikes: 1970 Holdsworth Mistral, Vitus 979, Colnago Primavera, Corratec Hydracarbon, Massi MegaTeam, 1935 Claud Butler Super Velo, Carrera Virtuoso, Viner, 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee, 1954 Holdsworth Typhoon, 1966 Claud Butler Olympic Road, 1982 Claud
Hmmm, plenty to think about here. I do view parts sourced from my stash as "Free" - sometimes they are, taken off bikes I was given for nothing - but often they are take-offs from bikes higher in the pecking order of my fleet that have been replaced by upgrades I paid good money for - I've never really considered whether these actually have a cost? Then there are my bulk purchases - 120 rolls of bar tape and plugs, for instance - that I now regard as free, but I did pay money for originally.
I can say that with the recession biting deeper I genuinely am spending less and having more fun, finding solutions to problems that are fixable with money spent - without spending any money on them and taking longer over my builds, waiting until the right parts (or more usually nearly right parts) appear without me having to buy them.
In the past I've done the 'period correct, must be exactly right' thing before and was shocked when I realised how much I'd spent. But I've still got those bikes, so I can be a lot less demanding on current builds and concentrate on making bikes that are pleasant practical everyday riders that don't matter quite so much. Back to the original point though, I'd definitely spend the money, when available, on that CCM!
I can say that with the recession biting deeper I genuinely am spending less and having more fun, finding solutions to problems that are fixable with money spent - without spending any money on them and taking longer over my builds, waiting until the right parts (or more usually nearly right parts) appear without me having to buy them.
In the past I've done the 'period correct, must be exactly right' thing before and was shocked when I realised how much I'd spent. But I've still got those bikes, so I can be a lot less demanding on current builds and concentrate on making bikes that are pleasant practical everyday riders that don't matter quite so much. Back to the original point though, I'd definitely spend the money, when available, on that CCM!
Last edited by Oldpeddaller; 12-22-12 at 01:40 PM.
12-22-12 | 01:37 PM
#48
Phyllo-buster
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,276
Likes: 2,698
From: Nova Scotia
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Hi Randy, here are pics of the front Phillips brake. Its very different in construction from the rears and would be a difficult mod.
This might be of interest to you...an original 4 (or 6?) oz can of CCM Maroon paint. I've used it to touch up a few bikes although it's usually too vibrant to match. Its amazing how well this paint has kept over the decades. Full of lead I'm sure but you could use it to reference your paint choice. We could trade something or I could easily paint a 4" sample and mail it to you for your paint guy to match. Just let me know.
This might be of interest to you...an original 4 (or 6?) oz can of CCM Maroon paint. I've used it to touch up a few bikes although it's usually too vibrant to match. Its amazing how well this paint has kept over the decades. Full of lead I'm sure but you could use it to reference your paint choice. We could trade something or I could easily paint a 4" sample and mail it to you for your paint guy to match. Just let me know.
Last edited by clubman; 12-22-12 at 02:04 PM.
12-22-12 | 01:48 PM
#49
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: south Georgia
Bikes: 1972 Schwinn super sport, heavy no name each cruiser
I've already spent more on this supersport then what a nice one on Ebay would have cost, and it's not even on the road yet, but in the sad shape it was in,it would have probably ended up in scrap metal somewhere, so I just think of it in investing in saving a fine American made bike