reggieob

Noticed that the rear axle on my 1977 Schwinn Superior sits way forward in the rear dropouts - wondering if it's unsafe and should be moved backward? From paint marks, it looks like it's been way forward for a very long time, but the front of the QR nut seems to be forward of the end of the dropout, which seems suspect.

Tried to pull the wheel back a bit but the dropout stop/screw thing on the drive side prevents it. Do I:
1) Leave it alone - no danger of it popping out while riding, or
2) Remove the dropout stop and slide it back just a bit (not so much that chain tension is seriously affected)

Thanks

Bianchigirll 

That is normal and why the spacer is there. I believe at one time bikes used to have the long horizontal dropouts to allow the wheel to placed at different locations owing to they type of RD used and to some extent tire size. "Normal" derailleur bikes require the axle to be over the central pivot point of the RD so they are placed very forward on the dropout.

reggieob

My photos are bad - the nut is basically clinging to the tip of the dropout, which seems suspect. My other bikes have the axle forward, but there is always some dropout steel for the QR to connect with.

Will I harm performance/ride in any way removing the spacer?

rootboy 

Those dropouts look like they were tapped for screw-in dropout adjusters. Ditch that homemade spacer and get some proper adjusters from your LBS.

Sixty Fiver

A lot of those dropouts were cast to allow for threaded drop out adjusters but never threaded, the stop on the drive side is not original and is keeping the axle from sitting where it should and should be removed or replaced.

aixaix 

If the QR can't hold under power, the wheel will cock and rub against the inside of the left chainstay. This is surprising and annoying, but is unlikely to lead to catastrophe, since it will probably happen when you are going slowly and really mashing on the pedals to accelerate. If you can stand on the pedals and not experience this, you don't need to change the axle position.

Removing the spacer is perfectly OK; just make sure the wheel is centered between the chain stays & seat stays when you lock the QR.

Metacortex

The stop is a Huret ref. 849 axle spacer, and it was factory installed by Schwinn in the LH (non-drive side) dropout, as seen on this pic of a '75 Sports Tourer, which was the predecessor to your Superior:



If your Huret dropouts are drilled and tapped for a Campy style M3 threaded adjuster you could use those, however Huret offered two different solutions instead. They would drill (but not tap) them and use a threaded half-moon shaped adjuster (ref. 226 and 237), or a fixed spacer (ref. 849) instead. You can see them on this '78 Huret catalog page. Schwinn used the ref. 849 spacer on bikes with the forged Huret dropouts like the Sports Tourer and Superior.

The threaded adjusters would be used in both dropouts however the non-adjustable spacers were used only on the LH side. No spacer was installed in the drive-side dropout in order to allow for some adjustability in centering the wheel between the chainstays. The forward axle position was used because the derailleurs of that time had no B-screw (body position or tension screw), and the forward position improved shifting.

If you install a modern derailleur with a B-screw you could consider removing the spacer, but if you are using the factory installed SunTour VGT-Luxe then I would reinstall it in the LH dropout as the factory intended.

BTW, whoever moved your spacer from the LH to the RH dropout also installed it backwards, the nut should be facing the inside with the smooth side facing out (which is also why some assumed it was "homemade"). I recommend reinstalling it in the LH dropout with the smooth side out as seen on the Sports Tourer pic above.

reggieob

This is a better shot of the spacer - I think I'm going to remove it and see what happens as long as it's not a big no-no. Still learning about this stuff!

reggieob

Interesting - so it should actually be on the other side?

repechage

There is plenty of engagement of the axle/skewer there. On one bike I had years ago, the lower portion of the dropout was ground away so that the wheel could be removed from the frame without deflating the rear tire. Yes, the chainstays were that short.
So, that basically is "as designed", if you have pulled the rear wheel over under acceleration then remove the stops and slide the wheel back.

For some derailleurs and large capacity freewheels it is necessary to move the wheel back.

To comment on BG's note about the design, road bikes for decades had dropouts shaped like that... I think one has to look back at the Campagnolo Cambio Corsa type shift mechanism where the upper side of the dropout was a toothed rack and the axle was a pinion, the chain slack was taken up by moving the axle fore and aft. the slight incline is a good angle to allow the wheel to translate the dropout without readjusting the rear brake blocks. Yes, they were not perfectly aligned but serviceable.

Why did the design continue after the need went away? Campagnolo was one of the first to design a forged dropout for use by any builder who ordered them, it did not hurt that their derailleur hangar became the basic standard which other manufacturers adapted to. It was a quality part and pretty quickly became synonymous with a top tier frame, as time went on other makers made a similar appearing forged end. Also, a vertical dropout gives the builder no room for error, a horizontal end can take up quite a bit of tolerance and still be fine.

Campagnolo did design a "vertical" dropout but is never had the following the "horizontal" end garnered. It was also thinner, some builders brazed in a washer to take up the dimension to match the forged end but not all. For a racer having to readjust a quick release skewer to install a replacement wheel just took up more time. There is lament among the current pro mechanics right now that the "lawyer lips" on front dropouts are now being checked by the UCI tech inspectors, it adds precious time to a wheel change to unwind and adjust the skewer after it has passed the lips.

Metacortex

Yes, the Huret ref. 849 spacer was installed by Schwinn in the LH dropout on bikes with forged Huret dropouts.

wrk101

OK, its definitely not homemade, and not a washer either. So scratch the grinder idea...

+1 That big honkin' nut on the outside looked homemade for sure. Mounted properly, it will look just fine (on the left side of course).

zandoval 

Thanks - That explains why I routinly have to move my axil back in the drop outs when switching to a long cage derailuer...

reggieob

Moved the spacer to the other side and flipped it around - made quite a difference. Previous owner must have put it on the drive side for some reason. Axle is still towards the front of the dropouts, but now has a bit more steel to grab on to. Thanks for your assistance!

Road Fan

BG, this requirement is brand-new to me, even after >40 years involved with what I thought were normal derailleur bikes. Do you have a pic of an example, or can you describe what point exactly on say a NR rear derailleur needs to be under the axle? I guess "central pivot point" is not self-evident, to me.

And what's a non-normal setup for which this is not true?

Chombi

I think, as long as the full diameter of the skewer nut is within the raised face portion of the dropout, you should be OK as you do not gain any more dropout face contact if you go farther back into the slot anyway, unless you go all the way to the back end of the slot. I use that as my limit guide on how far forward I can position the axle in the DO.
Half the cyclists in the world must have had their wheels positioned as far forward as yours and never had any problems with the wheel pulling out, unless they did not tighten the QR enough to start with......

Chombi

20grit

If the wheel just rubs, you'll lose a bit of tire sidewall, and probably a bit of paint on the inside of your chainstay. If your wheel manages to really go left (and if you are putting any force on it at all, it will) you will experience a very, very sudden stop. Having experienced this both at high and low speed, I can assure you the outcome is generally very similar and not at all pleasant.

rootboy 

Had me going too. If you decided you wanted the axle a little further back you can always enlarge the concave end of the stop a bit with a large round file.