Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Acquired Holdsworth - build date?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Acquired Holdsworth - build date?

Old 03-27-13, 04:41 PM
  #1  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Acquired Holdsworth - build date?

I have acquired an orange, 56cm (c-c), Holdsworth with 700cm wheels.
The S/N is 047139; the frame tubes are Reynolds 531. It has Dia-Comp brakes
It has a decal that reads: HOLDSWORTHY, made in Oakfield Road, London, England.
Can anyone out there give me some words of wisdom regarding this bike.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
headbadge.jpg (33.9 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg
DSCN2561.JPG (36.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg
DSCN2565.JPG (63.8 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg
DSCN2570.JPG (63.9 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by beaverstuff; 03-27-13 at 05:55 PM. Reason: add images
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 03-27-13, 06:53 PM
  #2  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,643
Mentioned: 361 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2379 Post(s)
Liked 2,222 Times in 1,099 Posts
Lots of Holdsworth info here: https://www.nkilgariff.com
nlerner is offline  
Old 03-27-13, 08:17 PM
  #3  
10speedterror
Senior Member
 
10speedterror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
I also have a Holdsworth with the very same decals (which could mean nothing) but mine is early to mid 70s and a friend has an 80s holdsworth that does not have the gold circle decal but I'm also not sure when 531st reared its head mine is just 531DB

also early 50s/60s I believe) holdsworths used a actual head badge and 70s ones seemed to just use the decal type badge

Last edited by 10speedterror; 03-27-13 at 08:23 PM.
10speedterror is offline  
Old 03-28-13, 02:06 AM
  #4  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,442
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked 359 Times in 292 Posts
I'd put the "decal head tube" models later than mid-70s, but exact date is hard to say, I know that by '78 they were using the decal (not the metal badge) but I have a Super Mistral that supposedly is a mid-70s that still has a metal badge...however, I must say I'm not convinced my bike is as young as mid-70s.
If the 531 decal is original (probably so) the ST (Special Tourist) designation and that style decal came into use around "the early '80s"...maybe '81 is a good working guess.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 03-28-13, 05:34 AM
  #5  
sced
South Carolina Ed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Greer, SC
Posts: 3,709

Bikes: Holdsworth Super Mistral Fastback, Macario Pro, Ciocc San Cristobal, Viner Nemo, Cyfac Le Mythique, Giant TCR, Tommasso Mondial, Cyfac Etoile

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked 121 Times in 64 Posts
How about a pic of the whole bike?
sced is offline  
Old 03-28-13, 05:31 PM
  #6  
AZORCH
Senior Member
 
AZORCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Posts: 3,120

Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 24 Posts
The head "badge" decal and the decal with the gold laurel match those on my 1981 Holdsworth Professional. Is the gold laurel decal located at the bottom front of the set tube?

+1 for bike pix.
AZORCH is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:00 AM
  #7  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
whole bike

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Mar2013.jpg (66.2 KB, 86 views)
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:01 AM
  #8  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by AZORCH View Post
The head "badge" decal and the decal with the gold laurel match those on my 1981 Holdsworth Professional. Is the gold laurel decal located at the bottom front of the set tube?

+1 for bike pix.
Yes!
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:03 AM
  #9  
Drillium Dude 
Gone riding
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10,906
Mentioned: 215 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1827 Post(s)
Liked 1,915 Times in 749 Posts
^ Ouch - too bad about that top tube dent!

Overall, it presents well, however. These are nice frames; I'm joining the "early 80's" chorus, too.

DD
__________________
My Flickr pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30331021@N08/

Drillium Dude is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:04 AM
  #10  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
T-mar knows all this stuff about s/n and dates.
Been away for a bit forgot how to contact.
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 11:44 AM
  #11  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,442
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked 359 Times in 292 Posts
T-Mar has been pretty active here in the past few months, and he's a genius but I don't think even a genius can decipher the Holdsworth/Holdsworthy serial number "system"...if you can call it that!

If T-Mar has a handle on it and can share that knowledge, we will be even more grateful.
Supposedly, Nick Kilgariff at one time was taking serial number-tracing requests from Holdsworth owners, but got out of that "business" when it got to be too much for him.

There was a forum member here: Skip Magnuson that was compiling a database, but he has disappeared...it must be a cursed enterprise...

Last edited by unworthy1; 04-01-13 at 11:47 AM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:35 PM
  #12  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Sent a PM to T-mar yesterday - hope he'll repond.
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:41 PM
  #13  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
derailleur bolt

One of the hard things to obtain - I'm finding out - is a bolt that connects the rear derailleur to a hanging frame piece. Why the previous owner removed it is beyond me.
It connects a Suntour Cyclone derailleur to the frame.
If any reading this has one, let me know via PM what you want for it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
r-derail.jpg (59.7 KB, 24 views)
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:54 PM
  #14  
AZORCH
Senior Member
 
AZORCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Posts: 3,120

Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by beaverstuff View Post
One of the hard things to obtain - I'm finding out - is a bolt that connects the rear derailleur to a hanging frame piece. Why the previous owner removed it is beyond me.
It connects a Suntour Cyclone derailleur to the frame.
If any reading this has one, let me know via PM what you want for it.
I may have an extra. I'll dig around in the stash tonight to see if I do and let you know for certain.
AZORCH is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 06:13 PM
  #15  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanks - any S/N info - anyone

Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Lots of Holdsworth info here: https://www.nkilgariff.com
The link you provided went to many interesting sites - thanks!

Last edited by beaverstuff; 04-01-13 at 06:14 PM. Reason: additional thought
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 06:54 PM
  #16  
AZORCH
Senior Member
 
AZORCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Posts: 3,120

Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by beaverstuff View Post
The link you provided went to many interesting sites - thanks!
My 1981 Professional is SN# 028878, but I'm not sure that the numbering convention was consistent between models. However if it does, one of the notes I jotted down from somewhere leads me to believe yours would date to mid-80s. For a neat little Holdsworth story that I relate on The Early Morning Cyclist, click here. (Unfortunately, photos on that page are no longer linked.)
AZORCH is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 08:51 AM
  #17  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,616
Mentioned: 569 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4033 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,581 Times in 1,136 Posts
My serial number studies have been centred primarily brands of personal interest (i.e. CCM and other Canadian brands) and those with wide forum appeal (i.e. Bianchi, Centurion, Fuji, Nishiki, etc.). Consequently I have no data on Holdsworth serial numbers.

Based on my study of Reynolds advertisements and catalogs of bicycle brands that used Reynolds (i.e. Peugeot, Raleigh etc.) that Reynolds decal style came out in 1983. Normally, this would be pushing the limit on a frame of this level for things like over the BB cable routing, long dropouts with eyelets and exposed brake nuts. However, I've been able to confirm that Holdsworth offered models with these features as late as 1982, so 1983 is a definite possibility. The two frameset offered during this period with these features were the Special (700c)and Mistral (27").
T-Mar is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 10:30 AM
  #18  
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 195 Posts
Another data point - I recently picked up a Mistral. As near as I can figure it's from around 1980 but I haven't been able to nail down the year either. Ser. 026089. I found it somewhat odd that a bike of this caliber from 1980 (or so) would be spec'd with 27" wheels and 120 mm spacing; also that it was sold as a touring bike but lacks what many would consider essential braze-ons. All that seems to be in keeping with T-Mar's comment about somewhat outdated frame details.
due ruote is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 11:36 AM
  #19  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,616
Mentioned: 569 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4033 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,581 Times in 1,136 Posts
Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
Another data point - I recently picked up a Mistral. As near as I can figure it's from around 1980 but I haven't been able to nail down the year either. Ser. 026089. I found it somewhat odd that a bike of this caliber from 1980 (or so) would be spec'd with 27" wheels and 120 mm spacing; also that it was sold as a touring bike but lacks what many would consider essential braze-ons. All that seems to be in keeping with T-Mar's comment about somewhat outdated frame details.
They're definitely not grand tourers. I refer to them as recreational or day tourers. I think there was a different evolution in the upscale recreational bicycles in North America and Britain, In the former it tended towards the diverse forms of sports bicycles and grand tourers, while Britain held middle ground. I believe much of it had to do with the respective environments. In America even when you wanted to go for a long ride, you still wanted to do it fast, so the sports bicycles developed. In Britain, the road and weather conditions weren't as good, so longer wheelbases, slacker angles and mudguard capability held out a lot longer. In America the longer distances between cities meant touring was often a multi-day affair so the grand touring bicycle became another alternative, whereas in Britain, with the much smaller distances berween cities, you could easily go somwhere and back in a day. You don't need, cantilevers, triple chainrings, triple bottles, racks, etc., unless you're carrying a large load and/or plan taking several days. Not that grand tourers didn't exist in Britain but day tourers were probably a bigger market.

As for the spacing and 27" wheels, the British tend to be a very conservative people compared to the Americans who love to embrace the latest technology. Crica 1980, both 6 speed frewheels and 700C clinchers were still relatively new. Even in North America, they were found primarily on the upper mid-range and higher and definitely weren't the dominant configuration. 120mm spacing and 700C was still primarily the realm of racing oriented models. While they were dominant in North America by the mid-1980s, I can envision things holding out much longer in conservative Britain. Look at how long they held onto their beloved internally geared hubs after derailleurs had taken over the continent.

Last edited by T-Mar; 04-02-13 at 11:42 AM.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 01:29 PM
  #20  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,442
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked 359 Times in 292 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post

As for the spacing and 27" wheels, the British tend to be a very conservative people compared to the Americans who love to embrace the latest technology. Crica 1980, both 6 speed frewheels and 700C clinchers were still relatively new. Even in North America, they were found primarily on the upper mid-range and higher and definitely weren't the dominant configuration. 120mm spacing and 700C was still primarily the realm of racing oriented models. While they were dominant in North America by the mid-1980s, I can envision things holding out much longer in conservative Britain. Look at how long they held onto their beloved internally geared hubs after derailleurs had taken over the continent.
I'd add that the Holdsworthy range had shrunk a bit by the early '80s and the mistral took position as their "dedicated touring" frame with long wheelbase, slack(er) angles (72 parallel) long Campy 1010 dropouts...but did have eyelets for "mudguards" and racks and WB bosses. Even in the US, the idea of keeping the 27" wheel for Tourists stuck around for much later than you'd think (certainly after 700C was well established for Sport bicycle use) among brands such as Trek as well as some Japanese makes.
The idea being you could find 27" tires (and tubes too but that's a little silly) out in the smallest town with any shop that sold bikes (drugstore, lawnmower repair, Dept. or Toy store, Auto parts, etc.) but you'd have to get to a real bike shop if you needed to replace a 700C tire.
The 120 spacing also made sense since you'd probably have a triple crank to get the desired gear range, but a 5-speed wheel was stronger (less likely to break an axle) and that was important when carrying weight.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 01:59 PM
  #21  
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 195 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
They're definitely not grand tourers. I refer to them as recreational or day tourers. I think there was a different evolution in the upscale recreational bicycles in North America and Britain, In the former it tended towards the diverse forms of sports bicycles and grand tourers, while Britain held middle ground. I believe much of it had to do with the respective environments. In America even when you wanted to go for a long ride, you still wanted to do it fast, so the sports bicycles developed. In Britain, the road and weather conditions weren't as good, so longer wheelbases, slacker angles and mudguard capability held out a lot longer. In America the longer distances between cities meant touring was often a multi-day affair so the grand touring bicycle became another alternative, whereas in Britain, with the much smaller distances berween cities, you could easily go somwhere and back in a day. You don't need, cantilevers, triple chainrings, triple bottles, racks, etc., unless you're carrying a large load and/or plan taking several days. Not that grand tourers didn't exist in Britain but day tourers were probably a bigger market.

As for the spacing and 27" wheels, the British tend to be a very conservative people compared to the Americans who love to embrace the latest technology. Crica 1980, both 6 speed frewheels and 700C clinchers were still relatively new. Even in North America, they were found primarily on the upper mid-range and higher and definitely weren't the dominant configuration. 120mm spacing and 700C was still primarily the realm of racing oriented models. While they were dominant in North America by the mid-1980s, I can envision things holding out much longer in conservative Britain. Look at how long they held onto their beloved internally geared hubs after derailleurs had taken over the continent.
That all makes perfect sense. The frame is very comfortable unloaded and I think would be perfect for long day rides. The PO said it had been used fairly extensively for touring, but I haven't tried that, and probably won't.
due ruote is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 04:06 PM
  #22  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Even in the US, the idea of keeping the 27" wheel for Tourists stuck around for much later than you'd think (certainly after 700C was well established for Sport bicycle use) among brands such as Trek as well as some Japanese makes.
The idea being you could find 27" tires (and tubes too but that's a little silly) out in the smallest town with any shop that sold bikes (drugstore, lawnmower repair, Dept. or Toy store, Auto parts, etc.) but you'd have to get to a real bike shop if you needed to replace a 700C tire.
I forgot to mention that my Holdsworth has 700mm clincher wheels:
Hubs are made by Campagnolo; rims are made by Sun Rims (M14A); the rear freewheel is a SunTour Perfect, with a 14, 17, 20, 24, 28 set of cogs.

Last edited by beaverstuff; 04-02-13 at 04:08 PM. Reason: cleaner paragraph
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 04:16 PM
  #23  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,616
Mentioned: 569 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4033 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,581 Times in 1,136 Posts
Originally Posted by beaverstuff View Post
I forgot to mention that my Holdsworth has 700mm clincher wheels:
Hubs are made by Campagnolo; rims are made by Sun Rims (M14A); the rear freewheel is a SunTour Perfect, with a 14, 17, 20, 24, 28 set of cogs.
It may have 700c wheels but it also looks like the pads have been pushed all the way to the bottom of their adjustment range. If they were in the middle of the adjustment range they'd be just about dead on for 27" wheels. It wouldn't surprise me if it orignally had 27" and a previous owner did a 700c conversion.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 06:28 PM
  #24  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
It may have 700c wheels but it also looks like the pads have been pushed all the way to the bottom of their adjustment range. If they were in the middle of the adjustment range they'd be just about dead on for 27" wheels. It wouldn't surprise me if it orignally had 27" and a previous owner did a 700c conversion.
I have a friend in Chicago who, through me, did the same thing; I sent him some nice 700s and he said the calipers just made the reach. Observant you are.
beaverstuff is offline  
Old 04-04-13, 10:04 AM
  #25  
beaverstuff
WoodBadge NE-VI-1
Thread Starter
 
beaverstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 394

Bikes: 1983 Sequoia by Specialized; 1989 Panasonic

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I want to that the contributors for their insightful comments. This thread took-off very well!
Thanks, again guys!
beaverstuff is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.