There are two things that all the time annoy me about bike parts on ebay; the first is calling a part "rare"; if the part was truely rare there probably wouldn't be 2 or 3 of the same also on ebay. The second is the calling of Campy parts "Super Record", when they are obviously not or worse, a part that has been modified to look like something it's not; such is this auction https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Camp...item4171f96e63. It wasn't until 1979 that the black anodized lower and upper arm of the Super Record three hole front derailleur appeared and at the same time the Nuovo Record 3 hole front derailleur was introduced (with a clamp change for both 3 years later); the only difference being the black anodized arms; the Super Record however does tend command more attention and a higher price. The seller in this auction seems to have found a way around this; either that or the sun has faded the black ano to purple.

That's pretty common actually, depending on the dye used in the ano.

The seller you linked to is also selling a frame in one auction and the forks in another..... parting out maximum profits.

I recently saw some one selling a frame with the bb fixed cup stuck in, and the bb in another auction minus the fixed cup...

When I read BS as cited below, my interest in any auction begins to recede. In case some members have not gone to the auction page, here is a typically written exit for responsibility on the part of some eBay sellers. Under "Terms and Conditions" he writes: For myself, I'd be ashamed to admit that I was either that ignorant or so lazy as to not be interested in dong the research. Of course, there is another even less palatable alternative.

In the past some members have suggested that we just chill and forget these sorts of people. They will always be there in some market or other, and we are not going to make a difference. I can understand this point of view. There are just so many hours in a day, and some very much more important issues are waiting for our attention — like war, environmental destruction, nuclear contamination, the education and health of our families. Nonetheless, I think that when we have a moment, holding these vandals over a fire is not a bad thing. Once in a while we should protest and make our views known on questions of dubious practice and sleazy business. After all, where does public morality start? ... top down or bottom up. Well, perhaps both.

Looks like Sharpie pen to me.

+1
The reverse situation of the OP happened to me recently. An ignorant seller listed a Super Record RD under the title "Campagnolo derailleur," so I snagged it for around $30 shipped. I'm sure if he had used "Super Record" in the listing he would have gotten more.

Exit responsibilities are manadatory in most of my ads. Its simply not feasible to describe, list and picture every little obscure blemish on a part. Buyers have a lot of resposibilty in regards to knowing what they're buying.

I disagree with that. A buyer can't pick up, hold and inspect an item listed on ebay. And most sellers do not offer near enough, or clear enough, pictures to accurately judge condition all of the time. I feel it is incumbent upon sellers to describe things to a "T". There's always a risk of over emphasizing the negatives, or appearing to, with very thorough descriptions, but I opt for it when selling. I like it when someone leave me feedback that says "much better than I thought it would be!"

All the exit language in the world does not matter, as ebay will and does side with the buyer. Neglect to mention rust? Or a dent? Or some other defect? Or describe the item as Super Record and it is not? If the buyer is savvy, once they get their hands on it, the part/bike will come screaming back, costing the seller his reputation, the full auction price, and shipping both ways.

+1 The items sold with a "I really don't know anything about xxxx" really get to me. In this internet era, 15 minutes of searching will educate the seller enough to do a reasonable description. To me, such language just means "I am a lazy picker, and just want to make a fast buck."

My other annoyance is the overuse of NOS. You will see NOS rear derailleurs with big scrapes and scratches on the cages for example. Give me a break. Saw a bike recently, guy called it "NEW", then described it as never ridden, just stored for 20 years. Well, the tires did not match for one. Several of the components were not original, etc. And he had a BBC level price.

Good chance the cleaning method altered the anno color. Note the gloved hand holding the part in the images... I would do the equal to "walk on by" this auction.

Yes, when I looked at the last photo the bottom link looks considerably darker, so maybe we are simply looking at incompetence.

Saying that here some FDs that are definately not SR yes there were FD without the black ano, but not the 3 hole variety..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-S...tem43ba4d95e6;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-F...item1e7873a110
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-N...item20d10e5686

and here is a NR front derailleur with a Super clamp https://www.ebay.com/itm/POLISHED-CAMPAGNOLO-NUOVO-RECORD-FRONT-DERAILLEUR-SUPER-28-6-CLAMP-GLOBAL-SHIP-/190818420703?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c6daa07df

and while there is Nuovo Super Record, this ain't it https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-S...item27d10a3470

I disagree. If I'm selling an obviously used frameset and take a variety of pictures that clearly depict the condition there's no reason for me to say "there's a scratch 4.8mm long, 1.2mm wide located on the lateral side of the right chainstay 2.4 from the junction of the dropout." B.S.

And if I'm selling a pair of ST-7400 STI levers its the buyers responsibility to know if they'll work on the buyers bike. If you dont know what your buying you shouldnt be buying it.

I've blocked a lot of buyers who ask amateurish questions. That being said, my worst ebay experiences have been from people who've posted in the C&V section of this forum.

I told my wife that when I die to list every bike part I have one piece at a time including breaking down the bikes (after giving the kids whichever ones they want). She will have no idea what has value to others and what only had value to me. Sure the auctions will be vauge but hopefully there will be enough items that the parts will hit each one of your saved searches somehow. She will be overwhelmed. I would not expect her to research every piece.


That said, yes it is tough when parts aren't described properly or arrive differen't than implied by the pic. on Ebay. One of the reasons I am apprehensive about selling on ebay is I like to give several pics of the simplest piece so there are no suprises. Everyone should be happy in the end.

I must go back in my tracks and yield to your comment — to some extent. But rootboy's follow-up is also a point well-taken.

Let's look at it this way: there is a cut down the middle. On one side there are sellers trying to protect themselves from ... say, neurotic, obsessive and dysfunctional personalites who take a scratch or some evidence of road eash on a 40 year old item as a catastrophe and rip off. This may be an extreme, but I am sure a common ocurance. On the other hand, there are predatory sellers who use their intelligence and perverted skills to gouge as much out of the prospecting public as they can.

I believe that eBay has attempted to create something that provides an equilibrium and some justice in the auction market. Some people would will not agree. OK ... perhaps that's were we stand; things are not perfect and never will be. miami ... I am confident that you are merely protecting yourself from exploitive caprice.

Sometimes it is difficult to tell what is caprice and what is merely ignorance and stupidity. I once bought a vintage 531 frame that was carefully photographed and displayed on the auction site. I studied everything carefully. I took stock of the fact that virtually every vintage frame is liable to be out of alignment somewhere. A lot of 35-40 year old frames are going to come with 'issues' that many sellers will not know about. Anyway ... when the frame arrived, I quickly realized that one of two bottle cage positions was not on braze-ons, but rather some moron had chucked in a bit and bored two crude holes that were hidden by two dome-headed wood-screws that I had taken to be proper fasteners. This defect was never described and I could not pick out the vandalism from photos. The description made no mention of it. I was clearly in my rights to stuff the sale right up the seller's rectum. Was the seller an idiot, or had he pulled a nasty?

Sometimes it's hard to know, but I don't think that ignorance is a defense when you are selling or auctioning a product. But I do agree that the buyer has some responsibility as well. And still the weasels will hide behind disclaimers such as the nebulous one I cited above.

Your points are well taken and understood.

How many threads about EEEEEEEVILLLLL ebay and bad sellers / buyers do we really need around here? N+1, apparently?

To the OP...I am very annoyed by the same things you are. I hate it when sellers on ebay or CL use false key word stuffing to try to attract attention to their items. To me, this is being dishonest about the item for sale and I always pass. If the seller gives a dishonest representation in the title, what else are they lying about?

EDITED: I have DELETED this post because I believed I overstepped my mark and have muddied the OP's original intent — Lorne

Points well made and well taken. But I wasn't referring to sellers, like you, apparently, who show very good photos and enough of a description to be honest about things. Not really necessary to mention every little blemish. Unfortunately though, ebay is loaded with sellers trying to obfuscate and omit pertinent details. To their own, nefarious ends. If I can see plenty of well lit details in the pics, I'm OK as a buyer. But it seems it's the exception rather than the rule these days. And many sellers are not even including any sort of verbal description at all!

Case in point. Just one of thousands of examples I could site. Has the derailleur hanger been hacked off this dropout, or not? Good pictures of the bike, but...heck, I don't know. If it's there, why isn't the derailleur attached to it? The seller didn't mention anything about it in his description and hasn't answered questions about it. As the buyer am I supposed to have the responsibility to just KNOW? Give me a break.
Too bad but there are lots of sellers trying to pass off stuff without mentioning pertinent details. Which makes buyers mis-trust even honest auction descriptions. (BTW. I know nothing about this seller nor am suggesting he is trying to deceive)

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:AAQ:US:1123

...

Record:
Super Record:
No Record Record
Prototype
new style old style
Circle Square Diamond
No Date
A lot of this is undocumented

Holy Cow!!!! This thread has experienced some scope creep. I thought that we were just *****ing about how so many ebay sellers with a Campagnolo item were able to magically turn that item into a component from the Super Record line up.

Exactly, rootboy! I purchased a Brooks Pro saddle, which the seller admitted to "trimming" a little to "save weight". What the ****er didn't do is show clear pictures of the butcher job. Uneven lines, rough edges, really a poorly executed surgery in the extreme. What was I supposed to do then? Complain? No, the seller had admitted that he had modified the saddle. Now I'm stuck with it. My bad, I accept responsibility for my laziness on that one. Caveat Emptor to the max.

What really gets me are people who think they know what they are talking about and then show total ignorance or simply spout out facts that they have heard second or third hand.

Firstly, as best as I can tell, the auction derailleur does have anodized black arms that have faded. This is commonplace. The only other way that you could have the sheen that is evident in the photos would be if you had black anodizing or the original chromed arms of the late 50's early 60's.

Secondly, anybody who is paying extra to get the black anodized front derailleur is only fooling themselves and would be better off studying what they are purchasing before purchasing the part. There is hardly a single model bike that came exclusively with the black anodized front derailleur, so you would be hard pressed to say that any bike is not period-correct if it were to sport the non-black anodized front derailleur.

Thirdly, I was working in the business when the black anodized front derailleurs were built and you are totally out of line with what you are writing. Campagnolo DID supply front derailleurs with Super Record gruppi with 3 hole cages and without the black anodizing. In fact you could only get the black anodized front derailleur from about 1982 onward and then initially only as part of a complete gruppo. Had you bought a complete or reduced Super Record gruppo prior to about 1982, you would receive the front derailleur without anodizing, so whereas a derailleur without black anodizing is technically not a Super Record front derailleur, it was commonly delivered as part of a Super Record gruppo and it is therefore a fetch to say it is not Super Record, especially since there was no mechanical difference whatsoever between the anodized and non-anodized versions. Furthermore, if you want to nitpick about others descriptions, you should be aware that the identical front derailleur without the black anodizing was NEVER officially called Nuovo Record. It was simply Record. the same with the hubs, the brake calipers and the cranks. Nitpicking about terminology is useful and warranted when you have a substantial difference as in the case of Super Record and Supperleggeri pedals or C-Record or Croce d'Aune delta brakes, or Super Record or Record headsets, but for all the rest of the components it leaves me cold.

Speaking of nitpicking, were you aware that virtually everybody gets wrong the "official" name of the single-bolt seatpost. It is NOT a Super Record seatpost but rather a Nuovo Super Record seatpost, with only the first generation of fluted two bolt seatposts receiving the denomination "Super Record". Likewise the brake calipers supplied in the Nuovo Record gruppo or in the Super Record gruppo are 100% identical (and called simply Record) with the only differentiating part between the brake sottogruppi being the brake lever blades. It was however commonplace for the boutique builders to take the Record lever blades and pantograph them and supply the same with their otherwise full "Super Record" gruppo bikes (the ones with titanium BB and titanium spindle pedals). I would love to see you tell a builder like Colnago that they are using false advertising.

Honestly, there is a lot of Campagnolo equipment that confuses me. That which I have used (black anodized super record mechs on SR crankset with a matching Regina freewheel) seems to be pretty poor at shifting. It's my fault.
Give me a minute, and I'll have that email to Colnago drafted.