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did i get the wrong chain?

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did i get the wrong chain?

Old 05-21-13, 01:59 PM
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did i get the wrong chain?

Ok, here is my problem of the day. I am working on fixing up my '77 raleigh super course, and I am having an issue adjusting the the front and rear derailleur. First things first, when I change gears using the front derailleur the chain drops directly between the the two front chain rings. Relevant information: The bike is upside down as i do not have a repair stand, Front derailleur has been removed for cleaning and then reattached, the bottom bracket and chain rings were not removed for cleaning. I have oiled the chain with finish line wet chain oil.

Only thing I can think of is that the chain I purchased in too thin, I did a measurement of the old versus new and there is a 2mm difference. I thought that they were all the same dimensions for 10 speed chains. Here is a link to the chain that i am currently using on the bike: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I really need help with the above issue, but also looking for suggestions here too:
Second issue, related to derailleur. I have suntour bar end shifters, and everything is working well enough in the back accept for the fact that it skips gears at times. Is there an adjustment to look into to fix this? Also, I noticed that it takes about 3 clicks of the shifter before changing gears, and then about 4-5 clicks for the last gear, if thats relevant. any thoughts?
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Old 05-21-13, 02:06 PM
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Go to a 5/6 speed older spec/wider chain and it should work as before..... Also, double check the FD adjustment and make sure your RD springs are pulling the chain tight enough so it does not sag or flop around on the bike that woudl cause slow shifting and possibly chain derailment and dropped chains.
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Old 05-21-13, 02:11 PM
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Ah - yes, "10-speed" doesn't mean what it used to mean. These days it means "ten speeds in the back", which is possible only because of the much narrower spec for chain and sprockets.

What you need is currently known as an "8-speed" chain.
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Old 05-21-13, 02:12 PM
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Oh dear. You *did* buy the wrong chain -- the one you bought is narrower because it's intended for 10-cog cassettes. The correct chain for an older "10-speed bike" is wider, and a chain marked 5, 6, 7, and/or 8 speed would work on your bike.

You shouldn't need to oil a brand-new chain, but that's neither here nor there.
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Old 05-21-13, 02:14 PM
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Yes, you bought the wrong chain. KMC Z30 would have worked just fine, for $5 on line. If you are going to buy parts on line, do some research first. Otherwise, pay a little more and visit the LBS.

You don't need 8 speed chain, you need the 5/6 speed if the bike is in its original state.

Skipping often is a worn freewheel, made worse with a new chain. But there are other causes of skipping. Unless the freewheel is in terrible shape, you will not be able to tell by looking at it.

Old freewheel + new chain = skip-a-rama.

+1 To below, yes, items like this are quite a bit more expensive at the LBS, but a 5/6 speed chain at my LBS would have cost less than that 10 speed chain from Amazon.

I buy pretty much all my consumables via the Internet, but you really need to know exactly what you need and buy in quantity to overcome shipping cost.

Last edited by wrk101; 05-21-13 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 05-21-13, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Yes, you bought the wrong chain. KMC Z30 would have worked just fine, for $5 on line. If you are going to buy parts on line, do some research first. Otherwise, pay a little more and visit the LBS.

Unfortunately, I find that some things (chains, tires, some others) don't cost a little more at the LBS, they cost WAY more--like, 2-4 times more. I don't know why that is, but it makes me a lot more likely to buy these things online unless it's an emergency--which it seldom is. This is not really relevant to the topic, I'm just venting!
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Old 05-21-13, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
Unfortunately, I find that some things (chains, tires, some others) don't cost a little more at the LBS, they cost WAY more--like, 2-4 times more. I don't know why that is, but it makes me a lot more likely to buy these things online unless it's an emergency--which it seldom is. This is not really relevant to the topic, I'm just venting!
That's because your LBS has to pay for a retail store, skilled or semi-skilled mechanics, salespeople, not to mention all of the tax implications.

An online store has to pay for much cheaper industrial warehouse space, a few unskilled people to work as shelf pickers, some software, and has the luxury of not only being able to locate itself in the absolutely cheapest state available, they usually get a free ride when it comes to dealing with state taxes for most customers. It all adds up to a huge financial advantage.
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Old 05-21-13, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mulveyr View Post
That's because your LBS has to pay for a retail store, skilled or semi-skilled mechanics, salespeople, not to mention all of the tax implications.

An online store has to pay for much cheaper industrial warehouse space, a few unskilled people to work as shelf pickers, some software, and has the luxury of not only being able to locate itself in the absolutely cheapest state available, they usually get a free ride when it comes to dealing with state taxes for most customers. It all adds up to a huge financial advantage.
Well, yeah. I know WHY they have to charge more, and I am fine with them charging more. I am willing to pay a premium for the immediate satisfaction of getting a part, and to support a local business staffed with people I like. However, I am not ok with that premium being 200% or 300%. If it's 20%, sure! So I buy certain things from the LBS, and not others. Whether they made a choice to charge $40 (NIC tax) for a chain that costs $15 online, or if they are somehow required to charge that much for some reason, I don't know. But I just can't justify buying it at that price.
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Old 05-21-13, 03:14 PM
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Keep in mind that BS pricing can be different just a block down from each other......
You can usually still find very competitive pricing if you shop enough of your LBS's.
Once in a while, I even found things cheaper at the LBS than on-line, especially if they have one of those clearance or special sale bins or corners in their store.... Occasional quirky pricing in a good way, but that's what makes LBS's nicer to buy from too....
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Old 05-21-13, 03:31 PM
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Thanks for the replies everyone, I guess i need to get a new chain then. I'll hold onto this one just incase i need it for a future project. Too bad I already broke some links off to make it match the previous length. I am sure it will work fine for a future fixed gear i would like to build. Either way, couple responses to the crowd.

I have been doing quite a bit of research overall, I am about 95% done with a complete restore of my bike, and I am pretty darn proud of it. I have to admit though, I sort of glossed over this one. I know about the differences in sprockets, freewheels and such. But i admit i didn't put too much thought into the fact that 10 speed meant "ten in back". I wish I would have, as the lower speeds are so much cheaper!

The bike i am restoring had had pretty low use. I think you can tell that the freewheel is ok, because there are only a couple of spots that the black metal coating is starting to wear off. otherwise, the thing looks fairly new (no wear). Only reason I am replacing the chain is due to rust, it was not stretched. However, if i still get skipping after getting a replacement chain, ill look into replacing the freewheel as well...

Regarding the LBS debate, I have been having some really bad experiences at Local bike shops.
First, regarding service, I have been to several and have found either cocky know-it-alls that dont really know it all. Or techs that seem to know nothing, at least when it comes to vintage bikes. Heres a quick story: I was looking for replacement wheels, because the originals have bad flat spots. The guy quoted me 170+ Chicago tax (which is pretty high). Then when i asked if i could check them out to get an idea of what I would be getting he wouldn't even grab them unless I brought in the original wheel first. I told him that I just wanted to look, but he said "there would be no point...". The whole time he was also in the middle of working on a bike and was making it pretty clear that I was wasting his time. Then I go to another shop and after watching the guy click around on his computer for 45 minutes and have a 20 min conversation with his tech, basically they ended up trying to sell me 160$, 130mm, wheel set and convince me to cold set my frame! I dont want to do that! Oh, and of course there was going to be a labor charge as well! --after a quick post here, I had several suggestions, all good mind you (without the need to cold set!), and I got them online (with tax and shipping cause the place is in the same state, otherwise they should have been even cheaper) for less than $130. and i got to shop around a bit and match the original look. That was a no brainer.
At a third shop, I was asking about shift cables, and the metal ends if they are all the same. I was told that they are and that they are universal, I purchased one at the shop and another online. The one i get at the shop has a end that is too small, it works, but it doesn't fit like it should. The sram cable I bought online is perfect. While the LBS cable technically works, I was asking a specific question that was clearly answered incorrectly. Oh and this shop has been around since 1972, they should have known their vintage bikes.

Dont even get me started on the crap selection of products at a LBS.

Over all, maybe i just need to find the right place, but I would rather risk getting the wrong part and having to get another one to replace it over getting jerked around at any of the places I have been to. I am sure that even with this chain problem I still have save money overall on my rebuild. And as mentioned above, not like going to a LBS will get you the right part guaranteed. The service here at bikeforums is way better than any LBS i have been to.
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Old 05-21-13, 03:37 PM
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Just to confirm, this should work, right?

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-X8-99-Bicy...kmc+bike+chain

Thanks!

Amazon, no tax (at least for now) and free 2 day prime shipping. Awesome...
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Old 05-21-13, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
Keep in mind that BS pricing can be different just a block down from each other......
You can usually still find very competitive pricing if you shop enough of your LBS's.
Once in a while, I even found things cheaper at the LBS than on-line, especially if they have one of those clearance or special sale bins or corners in their store.... Occasional quirky pricing in a good way, but that's what makes LBS's nicer to buy from too....

Yep, totally. I have the luxury of, let's see, eight(!) bike shops within 5 minutes ride--that I know of. I just found another one the other day! 2 of them are my go-to shops, and the rest I check when I can't find what I need. Brooklyn is saturated with bike shops. One is good for faux vintage stuff (VO, etc), one is good for random bits and bobs, one has mechanics I like, so when I have an issue I can't figure out, I bring it to them. But most of them seem to have very high prices on things like chains, cassettes, tires, etc. Consumables. I don't know why. If I want to order a wheel or a frame, the prices are competitive, so I tend to buy big things or emergency things, but not the small stuff. It is what it is, I guess.
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Old 05-21-13, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cream View Post
Just to confirm, this should work, right?

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-X8-99-Bicy...kmc+bike+chain

Thanks!

Amazon, no tax (at least for now) and free 2 day prime shipping. Awesome...

That will do 'ya. if you want to spend less you could get one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/KMC-X8-93-Chai...+6+speed+chain

or these:
https://www.amazon.com/KMC-Bicycle-6-...+6+speed+chain
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Old 05-21-13, 04:33 PM
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Choosing a bike an LBS from the possibly few or many in your area can be akin to finding a barber that can cut your hair right after a move to a new neighborhood. There's usually only one that can do it exactly right, but most can usually be satisfactory in an emergency..... You just have to be patient and observant to find the good ones but don't give up, as good ones are usually still out there.... You also have to be a bit open minded to slowly mesh up with them and develop a good relationship, as they most likely have been there long before you stepped in the first time into their store, and it will be you that might be doing most of the effort to understand how things work (they all kind of have different "personalities") in their shop and get you on their good side.
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Old 05-21-13, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cream View Post
Just to confirm, this should work, right?

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-X8-99-Bicy...kmc+bike+chain

Thanks!

Amazon, no tax (at least for now) and free 2 day prime shipping. Awesome...
I guess I am too thrifty, I would use the KMC Z30/Z33, $4.50 at Niagara.

You are still getting a narrow chain, just not as narrow as 10 speed.


I keep Z33 and Z50 chains on hand, as I go through a lot of them. The Z30/Z33 cost $4.57 at Niagara (for 5 and 6 speed bikes), and the Z50 cost $5.60. Most of what I work on is either 6 speed or 7 speed.


But I do not buy bike parts on Amazon.

Last edited by wrk101; 05-21-13 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 05-21-13, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
But I do not buy bike parts on Amazon.
...in my ignorance, I sometimes do... what is your reason for shunning Amazon as a bike parts supplier?
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Old 05-21-13, 05:59 PM
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For a classic 10 speed bike (2x5 gears) you will need a 1/2" x 3/32" chain.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by old's'cool View Post
...in my ignorance, I sometimes do... what is your reason for shunning Amazon as a bike parts supplier?

I wouldn't mind knowing the exact reason myself, as I tend to do most shopping an Amazon. It would be good to know if I am cheating myself somewhere. Although overall i have found competitive prices and a good selection there. No vintage parts, of course.

However, on that note, I can say that the down side to ordering bike parts from amazon, is that amazon itself does not stock the parts. So you are actually ordering through a third party, so ship times could be different and you might not get the same service. I had a bad experience ordering center pull brake cable, It got lost in the mail, and the seller was not that great about fixing the problem. I had to tell them to send another one and they were more worried about me sending the the original if i ever received it.

What i do like is that they still have a wide range of products, even if it is through different sellers, many of them still adhere to the prime membership. So, as I was shopping around for parts for my rebuild, it was just easier to order all the the little things I needed through them and consolidate my shipping costs. I needed pretty much everything, parts and tools...

I like that this thread has turned into a discussion on LBS Vs Online shopping for parts, ha!

As for the LBS, i guess i just need to visiting more of them till i fond the good ones. I will also check out niagara, I am always open to a good source for parts. Im open to Chicago LBS suggestions too.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:36 PM
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Shopping on Amazon is fine--especially if you have the Prime free shipping! I buy a lot of stuff like chains and tools there. They do in fact stock a lot of the parts themselves. You can see when you are ordering if it's coming from amazon or someone else. The Prime shipping will only apply to stuff direct from amazon. I think both the chains I linked to are from Amazon themselves.

Niagara is great too, and they have good prices. But don't order from Niagara THROUGH Amazon or you will get multiple shipping charges.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:40 PM
  #20  
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For pricing last 5-7 z chain I brought at abike shop cost about $11 which is the suggested basic retail price. Which is only a couple of dollars maore than the online price with shipping. You can also get basic chain at bigger Walmarts for $9.
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Old 05-21-13, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by old's'cool View Post
...in my ignorance, I sometimes do... what is your reason for shunning Amazon as a bike parts supplier?
Limited choices, often use other sellers where you get hammered on shipping, or they have the item at a higher price. Good example is the Z30/33 chain. Niagara sells them for $4.57 each, Amazon wants $7.10 each. I tend to buy several at once, so the price difference really adds up. Jensen price matches pretty much everyone, and has a $50 minimum for free shipping. Pretty easy to hit that mark. Niagara's free shipping is $100.
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Old 05-22-13, 09:52 AM
  #22  
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I have never really looked around at jensen or niagra until today, but now that I have browsed their sites I am pretty impressed. And if you are getting enough stuff to award free shipping then that makes the deal really sweet. I wish I would have known this before buying all these bike parts for my rebuild. Oh well, live and learn.

Although, if I only need to order one or two items, my free 2-day prime shipping cant be beat!
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Old 05-22-13, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Limited choices, often use other sellers where you get hammered on shipping, or they have the item at a higher price. Good example is the Z30/33 chain. Niagara sells them for $4.57 each, Amazon wants $7.10 each. I tend to buy several at once, so the price difference really adds up. Jensen price matches pretty much everyone, and has a $50 minimum for free shipping. Pretty easy to hit that mark. Niagara's free shipping is $100.
OK, strictly economics. Same with me. When I purchase from Amazon, it is usually because I found they have the best deal after I have checked with all the other usual suspects. Sometimes it is because I'm in a hurry or lazy, i.e. don't want to spend the time searching everywhere; other times it's because need to top up my order of other stuff in order to get super saver shipping. At any rate, I know the market value of what I'm purchasing, so I'm not getting ripped off when I buy from Amazon.
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