Hi,

It has no markings and looks like its been stripped to back to bare metal.
The BB is apparently Italian threading, he says, it's a friends bike.

Its a brazed frame, and the unusual feature is all the lugs feature triangular
cutouts to the triangular tapers they have into the tubing. The rear wheel
dropouts also feature a triangular cutout, dropout is near horizontal.

Anyone recognize these features and know the actual maker ?

rgds, sreten.

Those features are common to literally dozens of brands. You'll need to post pictures if you want a proper attempt at identification. While you're at get the required seat post size, check inside the bottom of the fork's steer tube for ridges (spiral, straight, number), any markings on the fork's steeer tube, brand of dropouts, distance between inside faces of rear dropouts, manufacturers' stamps on lugs, tube markings (typically near ends),any brazed-on fittings, serial number. Post pictures of what you find. That information and accompanying pictures might give the forum members a fighting chance.

Hi,

Dozens ? Really ? I suspect I'm being patronised.

rgds, sreten.

Dozens. Seriously.

When you say "triangular cutouts to the triangular tapers they have into the tubing", do you mean triangular cutout in the the lug points?

If so, Bocama was just one of a number of companies making such lugs, and dozens of builders bought them to build their frames. They're simply not unusual at all.



Pictures would be a huge help.

Yes, really. Your description fits about every high-end bike built between 1970 and 1990. The Italian threading limits the options somewhat, but even then 'dozens' is probably a conservative estimate.

Have a look around this forum for threads asking for help with frame identification (there are many) and you'll see what a challenge this often is. You'll also see that we like those challenges, especially T-Mar (he's sort of our encyclopedia).

So, please, yes, pictures would be a good starting point.

Nope. Literal truth. Triangular cut-outs in lugs are found on Italian bikes from the 1960s and got very popular in the mid 1970s through the 1980s. There are many, many Italian builders and most of them used lugs with cut-outs at some point. The drop-outs could be Campy 1010s, which are common as muck, though somewhat prettier. Photos & dimensions won't merely help: they are essential.

Hi,

Its not my bike and the owner asked me about the frame. I have
to admit the triangular cutouts looked unusual to me so I thought
they might help with identification but it seems that is not so.

Period Italian I guess is as far as identification goes, seems consistent.

But then again the owner wasn't even sure if it was
Italian, it seems that it pretty much must be Italian.

(I did say the threading for his sealed BB was a big clue).

rgds, sreten.

Yes, that's as far as it will go, unless you and your friend are willing to put some more effort into it. We're more than co-operative when we have the necessary information but when we don't, there's nothing we can do.

Hi,

I'll pass on the sort information that is required to my friend.

rgds, sreten.

Not even necessarily Italian-- we can point out many American, English, and other frames with similar cut outs... dozens may have been a low estimate, frankly. Hundreds? I'd get as certain as you can on threading, and even then the frame may have been retapped or it may have been a builder working in Italian thread (I've seen Eisentrauts with Italian thread, for example). Like everyone else says, pictures and information are a must. Even then, there are enough obscure (and often excellent) builders that worked with lugs in that style that we may wind up with nothing better than guesswork. The collective knowledge here is large, but in no ways complete. One area it really, really helps to have pics of is the seat stay cluster.

Excellent point about the stay treatment at the seat cluster. That is one area where builders often use a distinctive style variation to differentiate their work. There are lots of subtle variations in basic treatments (side tack, full or partial wrap, fastback, etc.), some unique to a given builder.

One more potential area to help: flip the bike over and see if there's any cut out or marking on the bottom bracket shell.



Some of these, as well as how the mech cables are routed, provide further clues. Many of the bottom bracket cut outs are quite unique. Hint: if it says "Cinelli", that likely refers to the lugset and not the maker...

Nope.


They're everywhere, everywhere!

I was going to chime in and say you could probably find a hundred brands that meet your description.