Please re-read - you will note I elected not to. The case in point above is clearly other-related, not bike-related.

DD

New old stock used to refer to old inventory that a store had that had never sold. Sat on a back shelf somewhere, kind of dusty, a bit older, maybe a little scuffed by all the stuff sitting next to it, but still in good shape. That's what people pay extra for. Now NOS has been inflated to include pretty much whatever a seller wants it to mean. Sometimes even sellers with good reputations. Which is why I rarely buy things listed as NOS anymore. But I do remember when it had a meaning that had some value to it.

The feedback should reveil the truth: "Seller advertised NOS, item was used".

Short, succinct, and truthful.

Then what was wrong with the pictures for the OP listing?

It is amazing what some people call NOS. I purchased a set of NOS wheels at a fair price from a seller on CR list. I trusted the guy....I mean it is CR list :rolleyes: Got the wheels and they were clearly not NOS. Braking surfaces worn and it was obvious the hubs had been built prior to this. (Spoke marks) Called him on it and he said at most they were ridden around the block. Pointed out that annodizing does not wear off in a ride around the block. He told me I was too picky. I kept the wheels because I had not seen them before and have not seen the like since.

So again, by your admitted subjective definition, nothing is NOS and your life got much easier.

What's the problem?

Even Reagan would trust but verify.

The thing is, it's not subjective. That USED to be the definition of NOS that everyone went by. And then some grifters decided to change it. Apparently, you don't see a problem calling stuff NOS when it's banged up and crappy, but some people with integrity still do. If you take good pictures and describe stuff accurately, it's no issue, but many people take pictures to hide flaws and don't describe things accurately hoping that they can get away with it because returning stuff is a pain.

I think there's some confusion here. My example (for another auction, from about a month ago, for a 1/12 scale muti-media Ferrari 312 PB kit in excess of $200) was used here to illustrate what usually happens when I ask for additional photos. In the case of the model, the seller took three photographs of the outer box and none of the contents of the box. This type of model comes in a box that is not shrink-wrapped, therefore opening it to display the contents is normally not an issue.

I was unfamiliar with this kit and wanted to know if all body panels opened and what kind of detail was contained within. A pic of the contents would've satisfied my curiosity as I know what to look for in a model I like, but had no specifics as to this particular one. The seller took my question as an integrity-check instead of a request for "what am I getting for my money?"

Model builders will spend a great deal on kits that are highly detailed, but less on the basic "curbside" types that lack engines, opening panels and the like. I wasn't willing to plunk over $200 down unless I knew more.

Now, more often than not I ask for more photos in cases like this, or when an item is represented only from one side (sorta like looking for all angles of a bike). In the case of the brake bolts (which were a BIN), well, that's a part where I think one can assume all is well from a set of 4 photos, but in this case, upon review, the backside of the spring-carrier portion (alloy) was not shown in those auction photos. I didn't even note this until after I received the bolts and noticed the residue and stress-marks - I checked back to the auction pics to see how I'd missed something so obvious. When I saw that portion of the bolts wasn't depicted in the photos, I understood.

I still do. Even when I take pics of parts for sale, I probably don't get them from every single angle; the difference is that if someone were to ask, I'd be more than happy to provide whatever view they wanted.

I hope this clears everything up :)

DD

That's all fine and dandy if the seller allows you to verify. In my case, he basically told me to eff off if I couldn't trust him. Great business model, huh? And what really sucks is that the model in question is exceedingly rare and depicts an all-time favorite Ferrari subject of mine. Finding another one for sale by someone else is going to take a long, long time.

DD

That Santa Barbara switch name seller wouldn't have a type of fruit in one of the alias names would it? if so, I have been raked by that particular seller multiple times in and off ebay. Grrrrr....

My what a brilliant observation.

I usually trust people a bit more if they say......"...never used, but has a bit of shop wear..." So far all the components I bought described by their sellers as such (And I've bought quite a lot of them already) are pretty much what was described by the seller. I also learned through the years that most of the time it's easy enough to clean off the "shop wear" and come up with something just a hair under NOS condition and saving lots of money buying the non-NOS stuff. I figure that I plan to mount as much of the stash I have on project bikes, NOS or not, so why pay NOS prices when one can get the same except for maybe a very few minute scratches here and there, that most likely never be seen/ noticed anyway?
I used to insist on buying just NOS stuff, but ever since the prices for most of them had skyrocketed in the last few years, I just had to figure out alternatives around it and I found that "shop worn items", as long as the "wear" is not so bad (insist on seeing good pics of the item before buying) and serviceable, work out very well for me......
Just my take on the whole NOS thing. Sure I'll still go for NOS when I chance upon a bargain, but I'm not insistent on getting only NOS stuff these days.....

^ +1

I can pretty much make stuff look new - if not NOS - again, so I rarely get bitten by the NOS bug. However, I have a soft-spot for NOS hot-rod items :)

DD

The problem is NOS means something. You're right, there's not a lot of stuff that's NOS. That's why there's a PREMIUM for the NOS tag. The problem lies in people twisting the definition of that premium tag to get more money for their **** that doesn't meet that premium standard.

Look at the use words "rare" or "mint" on any sort of sale site. How much stuff advertised as "rare" is actually rare? How about "mint?" There's a definition for "mint." "Mint" does not mean 'in sorta nice shape with rust and a few dings and only used for a couple years.' It means 'new and uncirculated as it came from the mint.' Anything else is bull****.

So, "What's the problem?" The problem is words mean things. When people choose to assign their own meanings to words, they become useless. It's disingenuous to play semantics games as in the case of your "hammer" claim.

Coincidence you mentioned hot rod parts......
I watched the movie MadMax yet again Friday on TCM, and that Weiand supercharger on Max's black interceptor with the really cool air intake scoop really caught my eye this time. Quite a bummer though when I found out later that the supercharger on the car was fake and just a hollow prop though....:(

That's a good policy and one that I've been trying to migrate towards myself. If they say there's shop wear and I don't see it, I'll ask to see it or ask for more details, or, for something that it doesn't matter, just expect a bit of wear when it comes. Most of the time, if I'm expecting it and going to use it anyway, it doesn't need to NOS because it's not going to stay that way long.

I used to sell bike parts on ebay but I never made enough money to justify continuing. I would sell parts and describe them as like NOS...but when I sold NOS it would have original packaging un used. If the parts were really like new, you might have been being too picky.

Can you find the same parts again that you were looking for?

I'm sure I can - they pop up from time to time; in fact, I already have a used pair - got them from miamijim - and they're doing duty on my most recent Medici build.

DD

Yup. I just wanted to know how it happened.

Actually, it was you who wrote,

And ebay has a category for that, new with defects. It is still new.

So if something is new, it could be is worse condition that used. But if you want to split hairs about who put what scratch on what, knock yourself out.

btw, when you go to the LBS and test ride a bike, do you asked for a discount because now it is used?

A snarky comment from a fellow who seems unable to do the thing he is snarking about.

Awesome.

:thumb:

Do you get as upset when Ragu comes out with their "New & Improved" sauce?

Thank you. I am glad you saw the sarcasm in my comment. I was afraid you might of missed it. And I did learn my lesson. Only took once.
Awesome!

:thumb:

I think you're the only one that doesn't seem to get that NOS is rare by nature and that's why we pay more for it. What's so hard to understand about that?

And no, I don't expect a discount for a new bike (or car) because it's been test ridden. That's part of the nature of the beast. There are a set of expectations when buying something that most people test drive/ride.

The term NOS also has a set of expectations that goes with it. It has a specific meaning. It means, unused, in almost as good condition as if it came off the line, but not currently made. That's not the same as new/defective. It's something that's new and has been set aside rather than used. I personally will usually accept something with some dust/grime (from sitting, not use) and maybe a little scuffing from sitting on a shelf, but signs of being mounted, or dings or chips do not count. Technically, scuffs wouldn't be acceptable within the definition, but because I use my things and don't just stare at them, I don't complain about small deviations from the definition.

Just because crappy/greedy sellers misuse the words Mint and NOS doesn't mean they don't have specific meanings. Why is that so hard for you?

+1 NOS should be a rare description, and mean something is new/never installed. Instead, it gets tossed around and put on all kind of used stuff IMHO. Sellers are tempted to exagerate condition to enjoy the 5X premium NOS can bring.

I rarely sell any bike part NOS. The only NOS bike part I sold this year was a set of Suntour barcons, 1971 issue, new in original package.

My tip to anyone who buys NOS on ebay, buyer beware. And myself, a lightly used part looks mighty nice, and costs a lot less.

I like turtles.

:roflmao:

Let's just see what eBay has to say about NOS.

http://s22.postimg.org/4ng9j2spt/nos.png



Now can we stop feeding the trolls?

Seems to me the seller is admitting there is some evidence of use, just not enough??? Huh??? Glad things worked out in the end.