Do Dropouts really matter?
12-05-13 | 01:31 PM
#26
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When most hear about "stamped" steel dropouts, they usually think of the big, flat, ugly looking ones you might have found on entry level and boom bikes from the 70's.
There are nice enough looking stamped steel DO out there. Ones that stick in my mind is the one used on some entry level Peugeots from the 80's like the ones on their PH10s. They are stamped but Peugeot bothered to add in window cutouts that make them look like they are forged. They even have what looks like thickened areas at the slot loke forged DO's do. I bet you can grind, round and smoothen them out at the edges that they can fool most people to think they are forged. Never heard of any failures with those Peugeot stamped DOs.
There are nice enough looking stamped steel DO out there. Ones that stick in my mind is the one used on some entry level Peugeots from the 80's like the ones on their PH10s. They are stamped but Peugeot bothered to add in window cutouts that make them look like they are forged. They even have what looks like thickened areas at the slot loke forged DO's do. I bet you can grind, round and smoothen them out at the edges that they can fool most people to think they are forged. Never heard of any failures with those Peugeot stamped DOs.
and then bent and pounded into a mold that is not all that dissimilar to the ones used to
stamp dropouts out of a single piece of steel. The stamping process is, to my knowledge,
a cold process, but you can bet the resulting piece is pretty warm to the touch.
Stamped mild steel is a pretty durable material, and based on my own experience these
are more easily bent for realignment....but they are usually thinner, and the forged ones
aren't difficult to bend either.
12-05-13 | 01:36 PM
#27
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12-05-13 | 01:52 PM
#30
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Ahhh Vanilla! Laser cut I bet!
12-05-13 | 02:52 PM
#31
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It's an early (Feb. 1971) Sports Tourer, so maybe they were in a rush and short of parts. The ST wasn't officially released until March of '71. Alas, the drive side drop was bent enough that I didn't want to risk using it, so it was replaced with a Campy 1010 forged piece.
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12-05-13 | 03:42 PM
#32
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Update: While Schwinn did normally use forged Huret dropouts on the Sports Tourer it does appear that for a short time (possibly only Feb. '71?) Schwinn used Campagnolo stamped dropouts as well. That was the very beginning of production for the Sports Tourer.
Last edited by Metacortex; 11-11-14 at 09:30 AM.
12-05-13 | 04:56 PM
#33
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I seriously doubt those stamped Campy drops were original to that frame, they were most likely replaced later. Schwinn had been using the forged Huret dropouts on the Superior and Super Sport long before the Sports Tourer, and that was a much more popular bike so those dropouts were plentiful at Schwinn. During '71 the Super Sport changed from forged to stamped dropouts sometime after the introduction of the Sports Tourer (I've seen them on Super Sports with frames dated as late as June '71). Finally, Schwinn didn't use those Campy dropouts on any other bike so it would be highly unlikely they would use them here.
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12-05-13 | 05:02 PM
#34
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one of the prettiest stamp-out DOs, IMHO, is those found in Carlton built frames?
unlike their infamous 'finish' quality at details, the DOs are so understated and flawless.
unlike their infamous 'finish' quality at details, the DOs are so understated and flawless.
12-05-13 | 06:01 PM
#35
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Personally, I think the greatest performance benefit of forged drops is that the skewer doesn't leave an imprint in it as it sometimes does with softer materials. Also, they seem to remain unpainted, and likely less rust-prone.
Forgeries, eh? Is there a big market in counterfeit dropouts?
Forgeries, eh? Is there a big market in counterfeit dropouts?
12-05-13 | 06:23 PM
#36
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Even at 5mm thick at the hanger, the Gran Sport would still have 5 threads of engagement for the derailleur mounting bolt.
12-05-13 | 06:53 PM
#38
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Just found this thread, because Suntour GS dropouts are of consuming interest to me right now. I have a 1973 Carlton Corsair with Suntour GS dropouts and the offside rear one (ie drive side) is broken. Does anyone by any chance have a replacement available? Or a knackered Carlton frame from which a dropout could be salvaged? I have about five other Carlton frames, but none of them use the GS dropout...
12-05-13 | 07:43 PM
#39
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That's what he said. 
Pssssssst. Hey, you. Yeah, over here. (opens trench coat) Can I interest you in a little Campagnolo? Yeah, the good stuff... see it's stamped right there. 
Another frame builder who works in the same building told him that once the bike boom hit, everyone including Campy tried out an "economy" line of products. I just can't see anyone going through the trouble of swapping out both sturdy forged Huret drops for stamped ones then repainting the whole frame, just to get the "C" word on them. One thing we can all agree on though, it's a weird one. I suppose the pedigree will get even muddier once I have it powdercoated.
Pssssssst. Hey, you. Yeah, over here. (opens trench coat) Can I interest you in a little Campagnolo? Yeah, the good stuff... see it's stamped right there. Another frame builder who works in the same building told him that once the bike boom hit, everyone including Campy tried out an "economy" line of products. I just can't see anyone going through the trouble of swapping out both sturdy forged Huret drops for stamped ones then repainting the whole frame, just to get the "C" word on them. One thing we can all agree on though, it's a weird one. I suppose the pedigree will get even muddier once I have it powdercoated.
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12-05-13 | 07:57 PM
#40
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I am dealing with a different but nice looking dropout on my latest project, a 1974 Sekine. Its stamped Shimano SF.
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12-05-13 | 08:37 PM
#41
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12-05-13 | 09:09 PM
#43
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A softer metal would arguably hold the wheel tighter against driveline moment of force.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
12-05-13 | 09:15 PM
#44
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Agree, not sure it's really an advantage from that point of view. Having had my wheel come loose in forged horizontal drops due to impacts during a timed event last summer, maybe you're line of thinking is better. However forged drops do seem to retain a nice appearance and don't need paint to keep from rusting away. I rarely see rust on forged drops, and when there is rust on them the frame is usually already pretty far gone.
12-06-13 | 03:26 AM
#45
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Thanks for the advice re using an alternative dropout, but I think that would be taking me a long way past my threshold of competence. If you ever come across the elusive GS dropout and you're looking for a good home for it, I'm your man!
12-06-13 | 08:56 AM
#46
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12-08-13 | 02:59 AM
#48
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If those Shimano SF dropouts pictured above are stamped, somebody went to a hellava lotta trouble to make them look forged. You are not going to get the rounded edges, and the sharp reliefs between the clamping surfaces and the base surface in a one-shot stamping process. For the same reasons as expressed by SJX426, I'm also skeptical that the Campy dropouts pictured on page 1 of this thread are stamped.
12-08-13 | 08:59 AM
#49
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If those Shimano SF dropouts pictured above are stamped, somebody went to a hellava lotta trouble to make them look forged. You are not going to get the rounded edges, and the sharp reliefs between the clamping surfaces and the base surface in a one-shot stamping process. For the same reasons as expressed by SJX426, I'm also skeptical that the Campy dropouts pictured on page 1 of this thread are stamped.
Sorry for the confusion.
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