......just an FYI, a lot of today's American custom builders have dedicated threads here.

Yes, & the exact reason it wouldn't be worth much on the resale market.

Good suggestion. I'll have to go back and re-read the BQ review... The L'Avecaise look to be nice frame sets at a nice price. I wouldn't need the frame to be custom; I'd just need it to have the build qualities and features that I'm looking for. Something like this fits the bill.

The L'Avecaise, Ebisu, and Terraferma all seem to be decent fits for what I'd be interested in. I'll check out some of the other suggestions that folks have made.

Thanks to all who did!

Ron Boi?

He recently did a repair for me, but I think that he's pretty much done with the custom build business. But, he'd be high on the list otherwise..... His custom bikes are really nice, and he has tons of experience...

A lot of interesting bike builders popping up, many of whom I had not heard of before. We often get "WHO made this old frame" threads....and sometimes they stay a mystery, many small time builders over the years, but unless they built with distinction, or built a LOT, they sort of disappear into the fog of history.

I'll add one more name to the list: DiNucci Cycles. (Photostream)

I don't particulary like modern builders that try to imitate craftsmen of the past by reviving certain styles or forms. Herse by mr. Kone is one of them. Great bikes, but not for me. I also am somewhat averse to builders that make all kinds of super-expensive porteurs and cargo bikes. That's like making coveralls out of silk, IMHO!

However, I still love some frames from time to time that use lugged construction with innovative paint and design, like the great bikes by Chris Bishop.

Then there are builders that started working in the classic era, but created their own brand with modern techniques. Pegoretti is absolutely top of the bill here.

And I like resident builder Frank the Welders bikes too, especially since he checks in here often with great antiques/C&V's, sound mechanical advice and pictures and stories of his builds!

One of these days I would like to get an Ellis custom made jobbie.

After seeing Stan's Waterford that Dave Wages built- I've been collecting ideas for what I want out of a bike, and then drop an obscene amount of money to get it.

For you. Not for all.
I wanted a bike with exactly what I wanted on it. Painted exactly how I wanted it. With the geo exactly how I wanted it.
NOT close enough, but JUST the way I want it.

So I would agree that most customs are more about the me factor.

YMMV


I would hope you are buying a bike to enjoy. Not as an investment! Besides, there is no way to put a value on owning something that will give me years, and years of enjoyment.

On buying investments, bicycles are way down on the list!

I have the same knife! Quality over quantity

On topic though, I'd much rather have a vintage bicycle. It can be a burden to have things that nice.

I don't care who made it. you can feel a bike that is good for you when you get on it. if you feel that that means chucking $2500 dollars for a custom frame for you. go for it. I just hate seeing people that get frames that are not meant for them. EG a guy that never gets over 15mph and has his too small racing frame with a stem that's shooting up at 45 degrees and has a 130 length stem. Then the guys complain their hands and wrists hurt. its such a face palm. Seems a lot of bike shops in my area do that to people.


as for buying a bike as an investment? please don't. shallow callous $%^$%#@$$#$%$#$%$#. RIDE THEM. sorry that's a big bone that gets caught in my throat. it's such an american thing. something can't just be enjoyed. It has to have a cash value and you always have to get more than what you put into it. If you put time in to actually riding and enjoying your bike, not just training, you get a healthy body and mind. that should be enough.

I knew of a guy that had gotten a custom shop guitar.

He was shocked and appalled that it was even suggested that he play that guitar out. He seriously wouldn't take it to rehearsal. While it was a nice guitar- it wasn't THAT nice IMO. But to THAT guy, having THAT guitar was like the culmination of his existence. It ceased to be a guitar. I have one of that model and have pummelled it since I bought it new. It's a guitar. (in all honesty, I was parading it around the house the week I got it, and managed to walk into a door frame with it- but the first one is the hardest)

While there is a certain amount of responsibility you have to yourself and your bike- but if it ceases to be a bike and you're afraid to ride it- then you've overextended yourself.

https://www.raphaelcycles.com/

my point is that if you are going to call it a "classic", there must be some value attached to it. & "if someone buys a custom built bike, they must weigh the option to build a bike for him/herself or to build something that can be re-sold. I would hope that they enjoy the bike & feel their money is well spent, also. Knowing bikes, sometimes, as much as you want them to be, they just aren't quite what you wanted & you end up selling & buying another.

That's true. They are production frames built by waterford to Riv's build specs. The A. Homer Hilsen comes in 14 sizes.

Riv is doing custom frames though, I believe the cost for a custom frame is 3500 and up. One custom that Riv showed on an email or reader was a mountain bike mixte that was awesome. I believe it took 650b wheels.


Anyway, I think Rivendells are a good bike to possibly become a future classic. That isn't why I own two of them, but I do think they are making bikes that will be sold at a premium twenty years from now.

LOL. You have me literally laughing here because I am that guy.
Of course, I am probably the perfect candidate for a custom frame too.
I'm 6'5" tall with long legs and a short torso. I bought the biggest most affordable frameset I could find to replace an old schwinn that I cracked the headtube on. So I got a 62cm Surly Pacer frameset. Unfortunately after the fact I now see that most of the online fit calculators for me are showing me as fitting on a 66cm frame with approximately a 58cm TT for a decent french fit.

I'm currently keeping my eyes open for a low cost LARGE vintage frameset though as I can't exactly afford custom at this time in my life. But if I could, I would probably make my first stop here at Assenmachers cycling centers here in the Flint, Mi. area. I think he is still building frames anyway. He has done some repairs on a couple of other framesets (for my wife) so I have a relationship with him already anyway. Excellent guy and seems to build some great stuff. Studied under Bob Jackson too IIRC.

Anyway, thanks for the chuckle.
-Rick

I agree that Rivs will become collectable, although I don't necessarily think it makes a lot of sense. But, the simple fact is, name recognition goes a lot further than rarity. Rivendell has had a huge presence in cycling for the past, what, ten years? And their bikes are expensive and exclusive enough to potentially retain some value.

There are many bikes that cost more and sell in far smaller numbers, but too much rarity will lead to fewer collectors actively seeking the bikes.

I'm not really sure which bikes will hold their value in terms of roadies or even the current MTBs, but I'm pretty sure that S&M will be a safe bet for BMX collectors... I think I'd better buy one soon.

I completely agree about your second comment, but don't understand your take in the first. Rivendell is far from "huge" in cycling. Niche at best. If anything, the Grant Peterson philosophy is attractive to a lot of folks that would otherwise be drawn to C&V bikes anyhow for whatever reason. And a lot of the people that are into that sort of thing do not own a Rivendell, but aspire to.

I don't see how it could not make sense that Peterson's philosophy has reached (and will continue to reach) more people than have access to a Rivendell- and I think even after Rivendell passes, that philosophy will still retain a niche of the cycling segment- and as you say, that name recognition will generate interest long into the future.

I was into classic cars for years, focused on Porsche 914, the unsung hero of the fabled German brand. What I discovered after dumping entirely too much money into the stupid things is the question: "What makes a classic, a classic?"

Sure as heck ain't tig-welded construction or the paint. It must be something more intrinsic, something that stands out from the rest of the herd and is effective in keeping it a stand out.

For the 914, it is the /6 model, 6 banger in the bay. Makes for one very fast and nimble machine, and not many were made. A standard 914 is neat, but honestly sucks in the same ways the Bug does.

What is it about these new "classics" that will stand the test of time and keep serious collectors interested in them? Pedigree? Innovation that became mainstream? A better, stand out design that no one has copied? Artwork embedded in the construction of the frame?

Or is it just the paint?

My take on the so-called Riv philosophy is that GP has managed to someone trademark conventional wisdom as his very own schtick. Anyone who has been riding awhile-- really riding, not fantasizing or "training" or just trying to drop some pounds, but really riding for enjoyment, to get somewhere by bike-- is likely to appreciate the ideas that somehow made Riv famous. I say "somehow" b/c the ideas had been around for decades before GP started Rivendell; in fact, they were around before GP was. The idea of riding a comfortable bike that will accommodate bigger tires and fenders, with no-nonsense non-techy components to encourage reliability is ancient. Long before Riv, ppl who didn't race road comfy bikes with fenders and rubber that was at least 1.5" wide. Long before Riv, even racers had a comfier, cushier bike for non-race applications. It was only a comparatively short time before Riv that these "values" started to diminish, and somehow GP artfully managed to resuscitate them and somehow make them his own.

Rivendell isn't huge in terms of sales or presence on the streets, but it's alllll over the net, and the idea of a bike with fenders, medium-width tires, a leather saddle and cloth tape has somehow become synonymous with Riv. If I ride my road bike to work at the cafe, there's a good chance that some stranger will say something nice about it, and say something about Rivendell related to my build. (Nothing on the bike is Riv, nor has anything on it come from Riv. Aside frpom the Nitto stem, I don't think Riv even sells anything on it-- but it has fenders, 37mm tires, cloth tape, a leather saddle--- and somehow, this has become Rivendellish.

Oddball side note-- I make soap, and sell some bars at the cafe. Some dude--- fat guy, doesn't look like he's seen any saddletime for awhile-- asks me a few questions about the soap, tells me how cool he thinks my soap is, but then suggests I check out Rivbike.com to see the clove soap offered there. (I don't think they sell it anymore, but they used to.) Riv is huge enough that casual cyclists will refer soapmakers to the site to check out the weird niche items on sale there.

I think, however, that the most telling sign that Riv is huge---freaking massive-- is that the majority of ppl who discuss Nitto products online will use the insipid names that Riv and the rest of the Merry Sales crew has given to Nitto's US product line.

So, Riv has managed to create a massive INFLUENCE on cycling, even if they don't sell a ton of bikes. Incredibly, GP managed to do it by telling us what we already know, which I guess is effective b/c it makes us feel smart and self-righteous. Which is a really smart marketing ploy.

In my book it's because the mfg. got it pretty much right the 1st time, has a design that's stood the test of time in performing it's function very well, has been updated w/ modern materials and is still available today.

Here's an example or two.

-Bandera

914s are rad.

I think that there's a "tipping point" for what we deem to be classic/collectible items. The 911 has enough ppl talking about it to be perpetually classic. Even folks who are definitely NOT car enthusiasts recognize the 911 by name, by shape, and by reputation. Whenever I point out a 914 to a friend with little or no automotive interests, they mostly just scoff and act incredulous.... "THAT thing is a PORSCHE?!"

The key, as I see it, is for an item to be prevalent enough to already have a fairly large amount of recognition among hardcore collectors as well as casual observers. That key factor, coupled with pervasive favorable opinions and enough initial value/exclusivity when new, will ensure collectibility/classic status once they're old enough to become relatively scarce.

Way off topic, but you just pushed my hot button. Here's my 1970 914-6. In the mid-nineties I pulled the original 2.0 liter six and shoehorned a 3.2 liter '89 Carrera engine in its place. It goes like a scalded cat.







Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I have to put in a plug in for my 2013 frame and another that I consider better, but out of my price range.
SOMEC REX

Pegoretti Luigino