Need source for french headset
I haven't dealt with this issue in a while. I salvaged a 70's Motobecane Mirage frame, These bikes make me paranoid sometimes (because I also have an 80's Super Mirage which turned out to be *Swiss thread*, but the headset was okay, thank god. )
So I don't know if this new Mirage swiss or french, if it's 70's or 80"s. I know they tooled with Swiss for like three years, then went to BSA. Is there a way to tell? I don't remember seeing any serial number charts like the one for Raleighs. I think Tange makes replacements. Anybody got a good link for a source, or if anybody has a used one for sale, PM me. Thanks. |
VeloOrange makes a French-thread headset. (I just put on a project Motobecane. It's a nice unit.)
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I just used a Velo Orange one a customer's PX-10. Quality is good, price reasonable, it worked fine. Bought a second to keep in stock at the shop.
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Originally Posted by IknowURider
(Post 16337592)
I haven't dealt with this issue in a while. I salvaged a 70's Motobecane Mirage frame, These bikes make me paranoid sometimes (because I also have an 80's Super Mirage which turned out to be *Swiss thread*, but the headset was okay, thank god. )
So I don't know if this new Mirage swiss or french, if it's 70's or 80"s. I know they tooled with Swiss for like three years, then went to BSA. Is there a way to tell? I don't remember seeing any serial number charts like the one for Raleighs. I think Tange makes replacements. Anybody got a good link for a source, or if anybody has a used one for sale, PM me. Thanks. |
There are no Swiss thread headsets.
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... Swiss threads are nothing more than French threading with a left handed thread on the fixed cup [of the bb]... you won't want to go the following route for a mirage, but for my grand record, i bought the two separate french threaded campy record headset pieces (on ebay) swapping them for the bsa pieces in a standard headset. saved about $100 that way, 'cause french campy headsets are $200 plus. also had to mill the fork crown down to fit a standard crown race, but no biggie. for a mirage, i'd look into the donor bike route. lots of mirages and nomads out there... i wonder if it's possible to re-tap a french steerer to english thread? |
Velo-Orange or ebay.
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Originally Posted by eschlwc
(Post 16338037)
i wonder if it's possible to re-tap a french steerer to english thread? |
^ the internal diameter of the french steerer just depends on the bike. you usually don't know until you just try a different quill stem. my '76 moto, for example, has a french threaded steerer of standard diameter.
what i don't know is how english and french threads differ. you can probably re-tap in one direction (english to french or vice versa), but not the other. |
I did an ebay search for "french campagnolo" and found several reasonably priced headsets. Now reasonable to me is like $60-$80 for a VGC vintage campy. Seems nuovo record headsets are commanding $100+ for good examples but there were some nice gran sports on there.
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The Velo Orange headset may not work for your bicycle. It has a stack height of 41mm. I measured my Peugeot UO10 and discovered I had 37mm sticking out of the head tube. And also had to fit the centerpull brake thingy.
From a photo by verktyg: http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...4&d=1316409188 Read this. |
Originally Posted by eschlwc
(Post 16338249)
what i don't know is how english and french threads differ. you can probably re-tap in one direction (english to french or vice versa), but not the other.
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I just got a Velo ORange one, looks nice. I wish they would use ground races, instead of stamped ones.
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I have one or two French headsets I'm not using. Send me email. It will take a couple of weeks to find them. They're up in the country.
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine
(Post 16338267)
I did an ebay search for "french campagnolo" and found several reasonably priced headsets. Now reasonable to me is like $60-$80 for a VGC vintage campy. Seems nuovo record headsets are commanding $100+ for good examples but there were some nice gran sports on there.
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Too bad VO didn't make their French thread headsets less than 41 stack height. They could've sold a whole lot more of them.
Not many French bikes from the 70s came with a 41 mm headset. |
Originally Posted by eschlwc
(Post 16338249)
what i don't know is how english and french threads differ. you can probably re-tap in one direction (english to french or vice versa), but not the other.
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^ i guess that means an english steerer could be cut to accommodate french threads, but not the other way around. and, in practice, that sounds like an absurd thing to do.
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@IknowURider: you never really said what was wrong with your old headset. Is it gone ?
Personally, I would not invest a whole lot of money in a salvaged Mirage. Just not worth the hassles. Look for a junked Peugeot...I'm pretty sure that will work. The standard fix is to swap the fork for something with standard threading. |
I have some pieces of a Stronglight P3 if that'll help. They were kindly sent to me by Whatwolf and there are some I can't use. Yours if you need them.
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Originally Posted by CMAW
(Post 16338707)
Are you sure about that? I only found the one from Spain, it has been there a while, and it looks a little suspect (especially the crown race).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Arab...item5d46f3ad12 http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CAMP...item2ecba4bc9a http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CAMP...item2c77bab124 |
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
(Post 16339226)
@IknowURider: you never really said what was wrong with your old headset. Is it gone ?
Personally, I would not invest a whole lot of money in a salvaged Mirage. Just not worth the hassles. Look for a junked Peugeot...I'm pretty sure that will work. The standard fix is to swap the fork for something with standard threading. |
...I have personally never seen a Tange fork that was French threaded,
but if there were such things, a Motobecane is where you'd find one. I would definitely try out a standard threaded top race on that to see if maybe you don't really need a French thread at all. |
I was going to post a pic of the headset that was on there, it will make you cringe a little. But I brought the wrong thumb drive to the coffeeshop. Stay tuned. Thanks to all, yeah this french stuff is always confusing as hell, I've read all the Sheldon and I still get messed up.
While this is obviously not a Grand Jubillee, I am dealing with this because it's become my civic duty. I have a grail bike, a Tomassini, but I want a french bike for combat use, because this is the first one I've salvaged that's actually in my size. I've been through a couple Peugeots, they are great , but a little wierd in fitting me. I think this one will fit perfectly. What's cool is this bike actually had some miles put on it , probably commuting, as far as cost goes, I got the bike for free so I'm already way ahead of the game. This is what happens when you are "that guy on his bike" that locals see every day , riding, rain or shine. So they know it will get worked on. I am also a huge fan of gaspipe frames for "getting stuff done", saves the better frames for the sunny days in the mountains. |
I absolutely LOVE my 62 CM 83 (I think) Super Mirage. I can do 12 hours in the saddle on that thing and feel no neck or shoulder pain the next day. Amazing.
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
(Post 16340331)
...I have personally never seen a Tange fork that was French threaded,
but if there were such things, a Motobecane is where you'd find one. I would definitely try out a standard threaded top race on that to see if maybe you don't really need a French thread at all. I'm not going to attempt a beer-can shim because I don't want to die. I swapped the bottom cup with one I had lying in my bag of assorted crap and I think I pulled that off okay. The bearing cages look pretty decent, but suspiciously modern, The top cup also looks somewhat chinese in its forgery, no patina on it. The headset is also completely different from the way-cool one on my Super Mirage, which is another clue. (sigh.) |
Originally Posted by rootboy
(Post 16339375)
I have some pieces of a Stronglight P3 if that'll help. They were kindly sent to me by Whatwolf and there are some I can't use. Yours if you need them.
man, i hate headsets without wrench flats on the adjustable race. |
What goes around comes around, eh?
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so they say.
we could add that an indexed headset race isn't necessarily trashed. you could: - toss the retainer and use loose balls, maybe adding a couple for good measure. - smooth the race a bit with a file or sandpaper. - even use a slightly different size bearing after using the paper. i haven't tried this approach, and it sounds like a lost cause, but it could work quite well (in theory). i've seen a headset that used a ton of tiny balls that i assumed were slightly too small as compared to its original specs. but it worked perfectly. if the lock nut or adjustable race is just ugly where it's been abused by vise-grips, a file and sadpaper might bring new life to it. |
1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=355827 Here's what was put on it. The horror! I might try a BSA top section, in hopes that this might be an 80's Moto. What clues me in is the BB looks kinda japanese, so I might have a fighting chance. Thanks to the poster above who clued me in on the VO 41 MM issue. That was huge.
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