is there a brand you particularly loathe?
01-10-14, 06:48 PM
#126
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Specialized. Overrated, over exposed, uninspiring.
01-10-14, 07:52 PM
#128
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Well the one GOOD thing I'll have to say about a Huffy is the fact that it was the "gateway drug", if you will, which lead me to seek out "the hard stuff". In other words, better bikes!
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01-10-14, 08:55 PM
#129
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In the 60's I despised Schwinn Varsity's. The Department Store Bikes made their debut in the 70's and I despised them even more as the only thing worse than a Varsity.
In 1981 I met "Pappy" Drake when my Fiat blew another water pump outside of Soledad, California. I coasted into the gravel lot in front of a run-down little trailer court on the far edge of town. Pretty soon a guy in his mid-seventies approached me from within the jumble of trailers and battered motorhomes on a truly ratty Department Store Bike out fitted with a battered chrome-plated rear rack with a pair of deep baskets, one on each side like panniers. He introduced himself to me as the summer caretaker of the trailer park and was happy to allow me to leave the car in the lot for a few days until I could return with the new water pump. He was none too steady on his feet when he dismounted the bike and I wondered to myself what malady had put him in such an unsteady condition. He was a friendly old man who was obviously eager to bend the ear of someone who hadn't heard all his stories yet and I was a willing audience.
Pappy told me first about his accident. He fell out of a hayloft in a barn in New Mexico three years before I met him, breaking his back. After that he was never able to walk more than a few steps without a cane, and even with a cane walking was tough. But he figured he might be able to ride a bike, and he was right.
I asked him why he left New Mexico. He assured me that he still lived there for half the year, but the other half of the year he managed this little trailer park some 1,000 miles or so from home. This was his second year at the trailer park so he was getting to know the route pretty well, which is a good thing when you travel that far twice a year on a bike. He told me that he could cover twenty to thirty miles a day, so it was nice to know all the places where he could camp out along the way. He would pick up groceries along the way and load them, along with his camping gear, into those two baskets and on top of the rack. He told a story about spending the night in the middle of the desert with a group of Hell's Angels who got the "hungries" in the middle of the night and ate all his groceries - then zoomed of in the morning, only to return an hour later with more groceries than he could possibly carry. He told stories of broken chains and flat tires. He taught me that almost any bike is a marvelous thing. He put more miles in one year on that "junk bike" than many of the people, to whom I sold much nicer bikes, would put on their bikes in a lifetime.
Pappy's long gone by now but the lesson I learned from him lives on in me. A bicycle is a wonderful thing.
Brent
In 1981 I met "Pappy" Drake when my Fiat blew another water pump outside of Soledad, California. I coasted into the gravel lot in front of a run-down little trailer court on the far edge of town. Pretty soon a guy in his mid-seventies approached me from within the jumble of trailers and battered motorhomes on a truly ratty Department Store Bike out fitted with a battered chrome-plated rear rack with a pair of deep baskets, one on each side like panniers. He introduced himself to me as the summer caretaker of the trailer park and was happy to allow me to leave the car in the lot for a few days until I could return with the new water pump. He was none too steady on his feet when he dismounted the bike and I wondered to myself what malady had put him in such an unsteady condition. He was a friendly old man who was obviously eager to bend the ear of someone who hadn't heard all his stories yet and I was a willing audience.
Pappy told me first about his accident. He fell out of a hayloft in a barn in New Mexico three years before I met him, breaking his back. After that he was never able to walk more than a few steps without a cane, and even with a cane walking was tough. But he figured he might be able to ride a bike, and he was right.
I asked him why he left New Mexico. He assured me that he still lived there for half the year, but the other half of the year he managed this little trailer park some 1,000 miles or so from home. This was his second year at the trailer park so he was getting to know the route pretty well, which is a good thing when you travel that far twice a year on a bike. He told me that he could cover twenty to thirty miles a day, so it was nice to know all the places where he could camp out along the way. He would pick up groceries along the way and load them, along with his camping gear, into those two baskets and on top of the rack. He told a story about spending the night in the middle of the desert with a group of Hell's Angels who got the "hungries" in the middle of the night and ate all his groceries - then zoomed of in the morning, only to return an hour later with more groceries than he could possibly carry. He told stories of broken chains and flat tires. He taught me that almost any bike is a marvelous thing. He put more miles in one year on that "junk bike" than many of the people, to whom I sold much nicer bikes, would put on their bikes in a lifetime.
Pappy's long gone by now but the lesson I learned from him lives on in me. A bicycle is a wonderful thing.
Brent
Likes For obrentharris:
01-10-14, 09:03 PM
#130
52psi
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Epic tale, obrentharris. Thanks! 
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A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
01-10-14, 09:19 PM
#131
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Damn! Hell of a story. Just goes to show, there's always an incredibly interesting person out there somewhere.
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Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
01-11-14, 02:06 AM
#132
Senior Member
Well its good to know that if I ever take up boating I already have an anchor. ROTFLMAO My Schwinn is only 24 pounds, has a Columbus Tenax frame and rides like a dream. I am very happy. Italian bikes look pretty but cost way to much money.
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My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
01-11-14, 04:32 AM
#133
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In the 60's I despised Schwinn Varsity's. The Department Store Bikes made their debut in the 70's and I despised them even more as the only thing worse than a Varsity.
In 1981 I met "Pappy" Drake when my Fiat blew another water pump outside of Soledad, California. I coasted into the gravel lot in front of a run-down little trailer court on the far edge of town. Pretty soon a guy in his mid-seventies approached me from within the jumble of trailers and battered motorhomes on a truly ratty Department Store Bike out fitted with a battered chrome-plated rear rack with a pair of deep baskets, one on each side like panniers. He introduced himself to me as the summer caretaker of the trailer park and was happy to allow me to leave the car in the lot for a few days until I could return with the new water pump. He was none too steady on his feet when he dismounted the bike and I wondered to myself what malady had put him in such an unsteady condition. He was a friendly old man who was obviously eager to bend the ear of someone who hadn't heard all his stories yet and I was a willing audience.
Pappy told me first about his accident. He fell out of a hayloft in a barn in New Mexico three years before I met him, breaking his back. After that he was never able to walk more than a few steps without a cane, and even with a cane walking was tough. But he figured he might be able to ride a bike, and he was right.
I asked him why he left New Mexico. He assured me that he still lived there for half the year, but the other half of the year he managed this little trailer park some 1,000 miles or so from home. This was his second year at the trailer park so he was getting to know the route pretty well, which is a good thing when you travel that far twice a year on a bike. He told me that he could cover twenty to thirty miles a day, so it was nice to know all the places where he could camp out along the way. He would pick up groceries along the way and load them, along with his camping gear, into those two baskets and on top of the rack. He told a story about spending the night in the middle of the desert with a group of Hell's Angels who got the "hungries" in the middle of the night and ate all his groceries - then zoomed of in the morning, only to return an hour later with more groceries than he could possibly carry. He told stories of broken chains and flat tires. He taught me that almost any bike is a marvelous thing. He put more miles in one year on that "junk bike" than many of the people, to whom I sold much nicer bikes, would put on their bikes in a lifetime.
Pappy's long gone by now but the lesson I learned from him lives on in me. A bicycle is a wonderful thing.
Brent
In 1981 I met "Pappy" Drake when my Fiat blew another water pump outside of Soledad, California. I coasted into the gravel lot in front of a run-down little trailer court on the far edge of town. Pretty soon a guy in his mid-seventies approached me from within the jumble of trailers and battered motorhomes on a truly ratty Department Store Bike out fitted with a battered chrome-plated rear rack with a pair of deep baskets, one on each side like panniers. He introduced himself to me as the summer caretaker of the trailer park and was happy to allow me to leave the car in the lot for a few days until I could return with the new water pump. He was none too steady on his feet when he dismounted the bike and I wondered to myself what malady had put him in such an unsteady condition. He was a friendly old man who was obviously eager to bend the ear of someone who hadn't heard all his stories yet and I was a willing audience.
Pappy told me first about his accident. He fell out of a hayloft in a barn in New Mexico three years before I met him, breaking his back. After that he was never able to walk more than a few steps without a cane, and even with a cane walking was tough. But he figured he might be able to ride a bike, and he was right.
I asked him why he left New Mexico. He assured me that he still lived there for half the year, but the other half of the year he managed this little trailer park some 1,000 miles or so from home. This was his second year at the trailer park so he was getting to know the route pretty well, which is a good thing when you travel that far twice a year on a bike. He told me that he could cover twenty to thirty miles a day, so it was nice to know all the places where he could camp out along the way. He would pick up groceries along the way and load them, along with his camping gear, into those two baskets and on top of the rack. He told a story about spending the night in the middle of the desert with a group of Hell's Angels who got the "hungries" in the middle of the night and ate all his groceries - then zoomed of in the morning, only to return an hour later with more groceries than he could possibly carry. He told stories of broken chains and flat tires. He taught me that almost any bike is a marvelous thing. He put more miles in one year on that "junk bike" than many of the people, to whom I sold much nicer bikes, would put on their bikes in a lifetime.
Pappy's long gone by now but the lesson I learned from him lives on in me. A bicycle is a wonderful thing.
Brent
Brent, your story made my day. Thank you. Now I like all bikes
I'm still a bike snob tho.
01-11-14, 05:34 AM
#134
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My general annoyance is with all the big mainstream bike brands always seem to be pushing the envelope technology-wise which makes the bikes more expensive and really does nothing to increase the enjoyment of cycling. One particular model of C-dale over thirteen grand? Twenty to thirty-something bike models above ten grand! Really? And exactly who are going to buy all these things?
They do sell and in fairly good numbers.
There are fellows I ride with that get a new crit/cross bike annually and they aren't worried about the costs.
They don't scrimp and they like to have a current model.
They are not "casual" riders like many of us.
Good on them.
01-11-14, 05:40 AM
#135
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For most budding cat4s, it's all they need.
Just swap out the FSA crank for an Ultegra and you are good to go.
The new guys end up crashing them at some point anyway.
For a veteran rider, a CAAD10 outfitted with say, Campy Athena and a nice wheelset would be a really nice way to go modern without going over the edge.
I think I have a line on a frameset and I could easily see building one up myself.
Last edited by gomango; 01-11-14 at 05:45 AM.
01-11-14, 08:37 AM
#136
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I assume you weren't riding 10-speeds back in 1971-74.
The Chicago Schwinn's, especially the Varsity, are probably the most important bikes out there if you're talking in terms of American cycling. More important than UO-8's, PX-10's, Super Course's, etc.
Without them, the bike boom would have died quickly because all those wonderful lugged foreign bikes would have been beaten to death by people who hadn't ridden a bicycle since they turned 16. And their last bikes were those 50 pound 'middleweight' balloon tyred paper boy bikes. The kind you could jump curbs, slam into potholes, and in general just abuse the hell out of. Most of those customers didn't understand the relative fragility of a French, Italian or British built road bike. They'd have turned them into scrap metal within weeks (and I saw a couple of customers who did that, customers who were taught by the books on cycling that if it didn't have lugs, it was junk). And walked away convinced that 10-speeds were underbuilt trash. Having wasted their money on a piece of junk, the urge to ride a bicycle would have died then and there.
These are the people to whom we sold Varsities. They were the perfect 10-speed, able to put up with the (usually unintended) abuse of a first-time adult rider. And once they'd learned how to take care of a derailleur road bike, they were perfect customers for something lugged in 531 straight gauge with better components, alloy rims, etc. Yeah, the Varsity and Continental were heavy. So what? They taught a generation of Americans how to ride again.
And yeah, we 'purists who knew better' slagged people back then for buying them. Amazing how stupid you can be until you finally know the situation better.
Oh yeah, Schwinn's, back then, were only sold in bike shops. Who's dealers were more regulated, and were forced to have higher standards, than the little back alley shop that sold the exotic European bikes.
The Chicago Schwinn's, especially the Varsity, are probably the most important bikes out there if you're talking in terms of American cycling. More important than UO-8's, PX-10's, Super Course's, etc.
Without them, the bike boom would have died quickly because all those wonderful lugged foreign bikes would have been beaten to death by people who hadn't ridden a bicycle since they turned 16. And their last bikes were those 50 pound 'middleweight' balloon tyred paper boy bikes. The kind you could jump curbs, slam into potholes, and in general just abuse the hell out of. Most of those customers didn't understand the relative fragility of a French, Italian or British built road bike. They'd have turned them into scrap metal within weeks (and I saw a couple of customers who did that, customers who were taught by the books on cycling that if it didn't have lugs, it was junk). And walked away convinced that 10-speeds were underbuilt trash. Having wasted their money on a piece of junk, the urge to ride a bicycle would have died then and there.
These are the people to whom we sold Varsities. They were the perfect 10-speed, able to put up with the (usually unintended) abuse of a first-time adult rider. And once they'd learned how to take care of a derailleur road bike, they were perfect customers for something lugged in 531 straight gauge with better components, alloy rims, etc. Yeah, the Varsity and Continental were heavy. So what? They taught a generation of Americans how to ride again.
And yeah, we 'purists who knew better' slagged people back then for buying them. Amazing how stupid you can be until you finally know the situation better.
Oh yeah, Schwinn's, back then, were only sold in bike shops. Who's dealers were more regulated, and were forced to have higher standards, than the little back alley shop that sold the exotic European bikes.
I am well aware of how the Varsities/Contintal et al had an impact on the bike boom. That doesn't change the fact that they were (are) crap bikes. They could have been so much better, but it is obvious that Schwinn was trying to make a LOT of bikes by investing heavily in mass production, and not interested in making the BEST (or even good) bikes. Typical 3rd generation family business issues.
I might even go so far as to argue that those bikes may have hurt the bike boom and lead to its demise. Deservedly or not, Schwinn was indeed a "premium" brand at the time. Let's say someone wanted to try out the new cycling craze, and didn't want a crappy department store BSO so spent the extra $$ and got him/herself a brand new Schwinn Varsity because it was the "good" brand. He/she would be stuck with a heavy, slow, badly shifting, and downright scary-braking (esp if it got wet!) heap?
I'd lose interest pretty quick.
I don't know when it happened, but I definitely remember seeing Schwinns in local department stores like Caldor, Alexanders, Bradlees, Ames, etc in the late 70s and early 80s. I distinctly remember going into one (Caldor, I think?) to get my first "10-speed" ca late 1980. The Schwinn was more expensive so I ended up with a truly dreadful Huffy (because it looked like the one Shaun Cassidy rode in the Breaking Away TV series).
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01-11-14, 09:00 AM
#138
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In 71-74, I was riding a Big Wheel and then an hand-me-down-from-my-cousin 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate.
I am well aware of how the Varsities/Contintal et al had an impact on the bike boom. That doesn't change the fact that they were (are) crap bikes. They could have been so much better, but it is obvious that Schwinn was trying to make a LOT of bikes by investing heavily in mass production, and not interested in making the BEST (or even good) bikes. Typical 3rd generation family business issues.
I might even go so far as to argue that those bikes may have hurt the bike boom and lead to its demise. Deservedly or not, Schwinn was indeed a "premium" brand at the time. Let's say someone wanted to try out the new cycling craze, and didn't want a crappy department store BSO so spent the extra $$ and got him/herself a brand new Schwinn Varsity because it was the "good" brand. He/she would be stuck with a heavy, slow, badly shifting, and downright scary-braking (esp if it got wet!) heap?
I'd lose interest pretty quick.
I don't know when it happened, but I definitely remember seeing Schwinns in local department stores like Caldor, Alexanders, Bradlees, Ames, etc in the late 70s and early 80s. I distinctly remember going into one (Caldor, I think?) to get my first "10-speed" ca late 1980. The Schwinn was more expensive so I ended up with a truly dreadful Huffy (because it looked like the one Shaun Cassidy rode in the Breaking Away TV series).
I am well aware of how the Varsities/Contintal et al had an impact on the bike boom. That doesn't change the fact that they were (are) crap bikes. They could have been so much better, but it is obvious that Schwinn was trying to make a LOT of bikes by investing heavily in mass production, and not interested in making the BEST (or even good) bikes. Typical 3rd generation family business issues.
I might even go so far as to argue that those bikes may have hurt the bike boom and lead to its demise. Deservedly or not, Schwinn was indeed a "premium" brand at the time. Let's say someone wanted to try out the new cycling craze, and didn't want a crappy department store BSO so spent the extra $$ and got him/herself a brand new Schwinn Varsity because it was the "good" brand. He/she would be stuck with a heavy, slow, badly shifting, and downright scary-braking (esp if it got wet!) heap?
I'd lose interest pretty quick.
I don't know when it happened, but I definitely remember seeing Schwinns in local department stores like Caldor, Alexanders, Bradlees, Ames, etc in the late 70s and early 80s. I distinctly remember going into one (Caldor, I think?) to get my first "10-speed" ca late 1980. The Schwinn was more expensive so I ended up with a truly dreadful Huffy (because it looked like the one Shaun Cassidy rode in the Breaking Away TV series).
The positive side was the simple notion of "freedom" they provided teens like myself.
I could go anywhere my legs could take me without parent' approval.
That freedom was priceless.
Game was over in 1974 when I rode my first Colnago Super.
Took on two part time jobs to buy one.
The look on my friends' faces is forever burned into my memory as they tried to keep up with their Schwinn behemoths.
Within months, most of them had begun racing with me on weekends and it sure wasn't on Schwinns.
01-11-14, 09:05 AM
#139
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In the 60's I despised Schwinn Varsity's. The Department Store Bikes made their debut in the 70's and I despised them even more as the only thing worse than a Varsity.
In 1981 I met "Pappy" Drake when my Fiat blew another water pump outside of Soledad, California. I coasted into the gravel lot in front of a run-down little trailer court on the far edge of town. Pretty soon a guy in his mid-seventies approached me from within the jumble of trailers and battered motorhomes on a truly ratty Department Store Bike out fitted with a battered chrome-plated rear rack with a pair of deep baskets, one on each side like panniers. He introduced himself to me as the summer caretaker of the trailer park and was happy to allow me to leave the car in the lot for a few days until I could return with the new water pump. He was none too steady on his feet when he dismounted the bike and I wondered to myself what malady had put him in such an unsteady condition. He was a friendly old man who was obviously eager to bend the ear of someone who hadn't heard all his stories yet and I was a willing audience.
Pappy told me first about his accident. He fell out of a hayloft in a barn in New Mexico three years before I met him, breaking his back. After that he was never able to walk more than a few steps without a cane, and even with a cane walking was tough. But he figured he might be able to ride a bike, and he was right.
I asked him why he left New Mexico. He assured me that he still lived there for half the year, but the other half of the year he managed this little trailer park some 1,000 miles or so from home. This was his second year at the trailer park so he was getting to know the route pretty well, which is a good thing when you travel that far twice a year on a bike. He told me that he could cover twenty to thirty miles a day, so it was nice to know all the places where he could camp out along the way. He would pick up groceries along the way and load them, along with his camping gear, into those two baskets and on top of the rack. He told a story about spending the night in the middle of the desert with a group of Hell's Angels who got the "hungries" in the middle of the night and ate all his groceries - then zoomed of in the morning, only to return an hour later with more groceries than he could possibly carry. He told stories of broken chains and flat tires. He taught me that almost any bike is a marvelous thing. He put more miles in one year on that "junk bike" than many of the people, to whom I sold much nicer bikes, would put on their bikes in a lifetime.
Pappy's long gone by now but the lesson I learned from him lives on in me. A bicycle is a wonderful thing.
Brent
In 1981 I met "Pappy" Drake when my Fiat blew another water pump outside of Soledad, California. I coasted into the gravel lot in front of a run-down little trailer court on the far edge of town. Pretty soon a guy in his mid-seventies approached me from within the jumble of trailers and battered motorhomes on a truly ratty Department Store Bike out fitted with a battered chrome-plated rear rack with a pair of deep baskets, one on each side like panniers. He introduced himself to me as the summer caretaker of the trailer park and was happy to allow me to leave the car in the lot for a few days until I could return with the new water pump. He was none too steady on his feet when he dismounted the bike and I wondered to myself what malady had put him in such an unsteady condition. He was a friendly old man who was obviously eager to bend the ear of someone who hadn't heard all his stories yet and I was a willing audience.
Pappy told me first about his accident. He fell out of a hayloft in a barn in New Mexico three years before I met him, breaking his back. After that he was never able to walk more than a few steps without a cane, and even with a cane walking was tough. But he figured he might be able to ride a bike, and he was right.
I asked him why he left New Mexico. He assured me that he still lived there for half the year, but the other half of the year he managed this little trailer park some 1,000 miles or so from home. This was his second year at the trailer park so he was getting to know the route pretty well, which is a good thing when you travel that far twice a year on a bike. He told me that he could cover twenty to thirty miles a day, so it was nice to know all the places where he could camp out along the way. He would pick up groceries along the way and load them, along with his camping gear, into those two baskets and on top of the rack. He told a story about spending the night in the middle of the desert with a group of Hell's Angels who got the "hungries" in the middle of the night and ate all his groceries - then zoomed of in the morning, only to return an hour later with more groceries than he could possibly carry. He told stories of broken chains and flat tires. He taught me that almost any bike is a marvelous thing. He put more miles in one year on that "junk bike" than many of the people, to whom I sold much nicer bikes, would put on their bikes in a lifetime.
Pappy's long gone by now but the lesson I learned from him lives on in me. A bicycle is a wonderful thing.
Brent
i remember when (hey, i wasn't the old timer in this story- but i'm 60 now and have my own!) i was taking a motorbike ride around america.
1975, met an o.t. at the foot of the verrazano narrows bridge in nyc and he regaled me with stories of a ride across america he did in 1924 on a bike with exposed rockers. had to put oil on by hand on that model, and his clothes were drenched in motor oil. weather stories, roads (still plenty of dirt ones then), characters met, girls horrified by his oil/dirt encrustedness- but wanting a ride on the pillion seat anyway. what a great day that was for me. rip, mister.
01-11-14, 09:18 AM
#140
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What is "casual" about most of us?
It appears most of us build our own bikes, ride 365 days a year, do errands, own both road and MTBs as well as put thousands of miles a year on our bikes.
I say lets stop emulating "racers" who spend $$$$$ to have the latest bike or smartphone.
My rant for the day.
It appears most of us build our own bikes, ride 365 days a year, do errands, own both road and MTBs as well as put thousands of miles a year on our bikes.
I say lets stop emulating "racers" who spend $$$$$ to have the latest bike or smartphone.
My rant for the day.
__________________
We are what we reflect. We are the changes that we bring to this world. Ride often. -Geo.-
We are what we reflect. We are the changes that we bring to this world. Ride often. -Geo.-
01-11-14, 09:24 AM
#141
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Bikes: The keepers: 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 3 - 1986 Rossins, and a '77 PX-10 frame in process.
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What is "casual" about most of us?
It appears most of us build our own bikes, ride 365 days a year, do errands, own both road and MTBs as well as put thousands of miles a year on our bikes.
I say lets stop emulating "racers" who spend $$$$$ to have the latest bike or smartphone.
My rant for the day.
It appears most of us build our own bikes, ride 365 days a year, do errands, own both road and MTBs as well as put thousands of miles a year on our bikes.
I say lets stop emulating "racers" who spend $$$$$ to have the latest bike or smartphone.
My rant for the day.
__________________
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
01-11-14, 09:34 AM
#142
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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Very entertaining discussion. FWIW, my "heavy" bike was and still is a UO8. I can tell the difference between it and nicer bikes now, but back then? It was great!
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
01-11-14, 09:38 AM
#143
~>~
It had absolutely nothing to do with any flavor of bicycle available.
-Bandera
01-11-14, 09:39 AM
#144
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Location: Ashland, VA
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Bikes: The keepers: 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 3 - 1986 Rossins, and a '77 PX-10 frame in process.
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Regarding the "Chicago Schwinn's are junk" attitude - most of you guys are missing one HUGE point that was critically important to us working in the bike shops during the bike boom:
The average customer, pounding on the door to buy a ten speed (no, I'm not joking - this would happen on our closed day when the Schwinn and Raleigh shipments came in) would have beaten a 'proper' ten speed to death out of sheer unknowingness regarding the care and feeding of a derailleur road bike. We had a few of those, customers we sold Astra's and Roger Riviere's to because we were out of Schwinn's and the customer wasn't willing to put his name on the six to eight week long waiting list. Invariably, they jump curbs, not dodge potholes, not care for the bike, etc., etc., etc. We got a few back with screaming customers about that "foreign made piece of ****" because they couldn't hold up to what the customer figured was "normal" wear and tear.
And a few months into the bike boom, we started to learn to ask somewhat guarded questions to give us an idea where to steer the customer. If all the customer had previously owned was a coaster brake middleweight, we're talking a Schwinn buyer. If he had at least owned a 3-speed 'English racer' during his childhood, we felt a little more comfortable about selling him a Raleigh or a French bike. And talking about selling something with Reynolds or Columbus tubing with alloy rims to a beginner was potentially asking for trouble. Fortunately, those people who were willing to pay the $150.00 and up such a bike would cost were usually already of a much more serious attitude. But we had a few of those backfire on us, too. I can remember putting Grand Prix wheels on two Super Courses because the owners beat the hell out of them.
Those Varsities were not garbage. They were what the market needed at the time - and quite frankly, until the Japanese stepped in with bikes that managed to approximate Chicago Schwinn strength and build quality while still keeping European weight and handling, we needed those Varsities. Otherwise, a very healthy and profitable period would have turned into a living hell for the dealer.
People who insist on slagging the Varsity obviously never rode one in the early 70's - when the difference in the market was a sharp divide between strong bikes that could take the punishment and fragilely built 'proper' road bikes. Hindsight may be cheap, but it can also be very, very blind.
The average customer, pounding on the door to buy a ten speed (no, I'm not joking - this would happen on our closed day when the Schwinn and Raleigh shipments came in) would have beaten a 'proper' ten speed to death out of sheer unknowingness regarding the care and feeding of a derailleur road bike. We had a few of those, customers we sold Astra's and Roger Riviere's to because we were out of Schwinn's and the customer wasn't willing to put his name on the six to eight week long waiting list. Invariably, they jump curbs, not dodge potholes, not care for the bike, etc., etc., etc. We got a few back with screaming customers about that "foreign made piece of ****" because they couldn't hold up to what the customer figured was "normal" wear and tear.
And a few months into the bike boom, we started to learn to ask somewhat guarded questions to give us an idea where to steer the customer. If all the customer had previously owned was a coaster brake middleweight, we're talking a Schwinn buyer. If he had at least owned a 3-speed 'English racer' during his childhood, we felt a little more comfortable about selling him a Raleigh or a French bike. And talking about selling something with Reynolds or Columbus tubing with alloy rims to a beginner was potentially asking for trouble. Fortunately, those people who were willing to pay the $150.00 and up such a bike would cost were usually already of a much more serious attitude. But we had a few of those backfire on us, too. I can remember putting Grand Prix wheels on two Super Courses because the owners beat the hell out of them.
Those Varsities were not garbage. They were what the market needed at the time - and quite frankly, until the Japanese stepped in with bikes that managed to approximate Chicago Schwinn strength and build quality while still keeping European weight and handling, we needed those Varsities. Otherwise, a very healthy and profitable period would have turned into a living hell for the dealer.
People who insist on slagging the Varsity obviously never rode one in the early 70's - when the difference in the market was a sharp divide between strong bikes that could take the punishment and fragilely built 'proper' road bikes. Hindsight may be cheap, but it can also be very, very blind.
__________________
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
01-11-14, 09:49 AM
#145
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I agree that many of the people here ride enough and service their own bikes to know when the latest is a performance gain vs low reliability marketing ploys. The group here tends to know what rides well, performs well, lasts a long while, and looks good.
I'm indifferent to the folks at my LBS. I come in for parts and look over the latest bikes while having interesting conversations with the sales staff about the latest technologies. Quite often the best thing they can say about the latest is that it's lighter, or better yet "it's what the pro's are using". Usually, no mention of things that I find more important such as being more reliable, easier to service, parts available 10 years from now, etc.
Admittedly, if I were a professional with a mechanic, a chase vehicle, a "nutritionist", and nothing else on my calendar, I'd let the mfr's put whatever they thought best under me until it raised a true performance objection for that particular stage, time trial, etc. Until then, I need to evaluate stuff in terms of value, long term performance, and my likes and dislikes over those of the sales staff.
I'm indifferent to the folks at my LBS. I come in for parts and look over the latest bikes while having interesting conversations with the sales staff about the latest technologies. Quite often the best thing they can say about the latest is that it's lighter, or better yet "it's what the pro's are using". Usually, no mention of things that I find more important such as being more reliable, easier to service, parts available 10 years from now, etc.
Admittedly, if I were a professional with a mechanic, a chase vehicle, a "nutritionist", and nothing else on my calendar, I'd let the mfr's put whatever they thought best under me until it raised a true performance objection for that particular stage, time trial, etc. Until then, I need to evaluate stuff in terms of value, long term performance, and my likes and dislikes over those of the sales staff.
01-11-14, 10:07 AM
#146
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What is "casual" about most of us?
It appears most of us build our own bikes, ride 365 days a year, do errands, own both road and MTBs as well as put thousands of miles a year on our bikes.
I say lets stop emulating "racers" who spend $$$$$ to have the latest bike or smartphone.
My rant for the day.
It appears most of us build our own bikes, ride 365 days a year, do errands, own both road and MTBs as well as put thousands of miles a year on our bikes.
I say lets stop emulating "racers" who spend $$$$$ to have the latest bike or smartphone.
My rant for the day.
Most of ride 365 days a year?
Really?
They clearly haven't been on our roads in St. Paul.
As for not emulating racers, whatever winds your binder.
01-11-14, 10:33 AM
#147
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....and the CAAD10 is a heck of a crit bike at that price point.
For most budding cat4s, it's all they need.
Just swap out the FSA crank for an Ultegra and you are good to go.
The new guys end up crashing them at some point anyway.
For a veteran rider, a CAAD10 outfitted with say, Campy Athena and a nice wheelset would be a really nice way to go modern without going over the edge.
I think I have a line on a frameset and I could easily see building one up myself.
For most budding cat4s, it's all they need.
Just swap out the FSA crank for an Ultegra and you are good to go.
The new guys end up crashing them at some point anyway.
For a veteran rider, a CAAD10 outfitted with say, Campy Athena and a nice wheelset would be a really nice way to go modern without going over the edge.
I think I have a line on a frameset and I could easily see building one up myself.
If I was racing, it would look similar but I might go centaur or Athena. Maybe throw in some chorus brakes and cranks for some "bling"
01-11-14, 10:38 AM
#148
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Location: Ashland, VA
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We got thru Christmas '73 very well. By July of '74, I'd taken a job at Erie Malleable Iron driving fork lift in an iron foundry. A combination of, it paid a lot better ($11k/year), and Merle had to cut me back to part time because the business absolutely plummeted from what was expected in the spring of '74.
It was like a light switch had snapped off. The Presque Isle Bicycle Club had something like 250 members in 1973. We had less than 40 renew for 1974. That had dropped by half again in 1975. I don't think the original club survived past 1977.
Fad over. Buh-bye. Suddenly, we couldn't give away a Raleigh Super Course, much less a Varsity. I stayed on as an occasional worker at the shop (especially during layoff periods at the mill) until I moved back to Johnstown in '77. From what I understood the bike business was in the toilet for the most part until mountain bikes came around.
__________________
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
01-11-14, 10:43 AM
#149
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I'm with you. If I were doing a modern build, it would be a caad10 or allez (whichever fit best) with used chorus 11, cheap alloy deda parts, and either zonda wheels or some mid level custom wheels. Maybe novatec to archetype.
If I was racing, it would look similar but I might go centaur or Athena. Maybe throw in some chorus brakes and cranks for some "bling"
If I was racing, it would look similar but I might go centaur or Athena. Maybe throw in some chorus brakes and cranks for some "bling"
Most of the juniors here are using 105, Rival or Centaur.
01-11-14, 10:50 AM
#150
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i would really like to see specialized do a deda/centaur/zonda allez. It would be a great budget race bike. They could also use the scirocco 35s. Heavier, but cheaper and probably very strong.
edit: the Campagnolo u18 team runs scirocco 35s and Athena.
Last edited by thirdgenbird; 01-11-14 at 10:59 AM.