Assistance for Newbs: post your pics of varying quality levels of bike-related stuff
 

Credit The Golden Boy's suggestion in the Huffy Santa Fe thread.

Post (and label good, not-so-good or even bad) pics of bike parts, tubing - even full bikes. If you can, try to include an example of each in your post, like this:

This decal denotes higher-quality tubing:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-88xuU88xkQ...s_SL_Decal.jpg

This decal denotes lesser-quality tubing (designators such as 1020, 2040 and Hi-Ten or High Tensile denote lesser quality)

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...7QyVmbZS_4IB4V

Higher-quality brake caliper:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-1980s...VVog~~60_1.JPG

Lesser-quality brake caliper

http://image.made-in-china.com/4f0j0...-ABRS-12S-.jpg

My apologies to anyone here that is a fan of anything anyone will deem as "lesser quality" for perhaps feeling offended - that is not the point of this thread. I'm hoping that newbies will get an idea of what is at the extreme ends of the spectrum and that information will be helpful in discovering where they want to fit themselves in.

Have at it - and have fun :)

DD

DD, this will be fun! :thumb:

High Quality Schwinn Lightweight (after a careful rebuild)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...3/P7270048.jpg

Low Quality Schwinn Lightweight, sic (fresh from the dump)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...73Varsity2.jpg

High Quality Vintage Freewheel

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...edsideview.jpg

Low Quality Vintage Freewheel

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...psad743784.jpg

schwinn in the top photo above: aluminum rims, 3-piece non-integrated cotterless crankset, on-frame derailleur hanger, forged dropouts, and either downtube or bar-end shifters.

schwinn in bottom photo: none of the above.

Track bike

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...pseade2ad2.jpg

"fixie"

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6b5760bd.jpg

Uhmmmm.... I thought "4130" denotes Chrome Molybdenum steel tubing = good quality tubing.
"1020" and "2040" were I thought the numbers (give or take a few numbers up or down) usually used for the two tiers for high tensile carbon steel tubing that = entry level bikes.......

Thanks for that insight - fixed.

What do you know, this thread already helped educate somebody; I just didn't think it was going to be me so quickly :)

DD

Peugeot/French specific -
http://qcanysk.up.d.seesaa.net/qcany...E0001.jpg?d=a3
It's high-tensile steel, dude. And it's not a PX-10.

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpe...Decal_ST_2.jpg
That "INOXYDABLE" label, in combination with the REYNOLDS 531 tubing sticker and the fancy Nervex lugs screams quality, therefore is indicative of Peugeot PX-10. (Apologies to Randy for borrowing his photo)


Derailleurs:

http://www.bikeforums.net/image/jpeg...dYGI6OgN//2Q==http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...red_front2.jpg

See that black plastic? That's called Delrin. It has low coefficient of friction, but no other advantages (such as shear strength, compressive strength, and tensile strength relative to steel or aluminum). Delrin is many things, but it is not good for loaded / tensioned bicycle parts exposed to the elements. What it means is 1) your derailleurs could launch themselves into your drivetrain and 2) you will likely need new derailleurs before long.

Better options are these:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5486/1...39e9d4a8_o.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3356/3...6f3032c0_z.jpg

Great idea, and great thread so far! This beats endless searching of the interwebs and forums trying to filter through opinions and uninformed posts, hands down. I'm eating this stuff up. :thumb:

Hands down the best steel tubing ever made for a bicycle. the Columbus Max NivaChrome tubesets were a tad lighter than the vaunted SL tubes but created a much stiffer frame. The differential ovalizing of the various tubes allowed builders to achieve a very stiff bottom bracket while making the frame vertically compliant for a comfortable ride, something like a casserole with pedals.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...3&d=1389530922

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...4&d=1389530925




A good basic three tube double butted chromoly tubed bike with mangalloy stays. Not exactly light but a great comfortable well performing rider.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...5&d=1389530928
Sorry I thought that pic was better. I'll try and "Abby" it later

This is the same frame as the reddish one above.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...6&d=1389530932

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=359203http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=359204http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=359205http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=359206

What is COLLECTABLE vintage:
- Lightweight bikes with a heritage of design innovation, race-leading performance, superb build quality/metallurgy and /or limited production runs.

Examples: TIER 1
Schwinn Paramounts built in Chicago
Italian boutique bikes (such as Colnago, De Rosa, Tommasini, Legnano, Rossin, Basso, Pogliaghi, etc.)
Peugeot PY-10
Raleigh Professional
Hand-built British bikes (see the Hilary Stone site for more details)
Hand-built USA bikes (Spectrum; Bruce Gordon; Tom Ritchey et.al.)
Hand-built Japan bikes (Cherubim; Nagasawa; Alps; 3Rensho)
Hand-built Belgian bikes (Gazelle, Mercx, etc.)
Hand-built Swiss bikes (ex. Cilo)

TIER 2:
High-end Bianchi bikes from Italy (particularly in Celeste Blue)
Petersen-era Bridgestones made in Japan (MB-zip is the only exception)
High-end domestic Schwinn bikes from the '80s (under-rated, but only for now)
Vintage Schwinn lightweights from the 60's (fillet-brazed)
Trek-Wisconsin bikes from the 70s to the early 80s
Miyata high-end touring bikes
High-end European bikes from larger manufacturers (ex. Motobecane Grand Jubilee; Raleigh International; Austro-Daimler)
Any high-end bike from a Japanese-based manufacturer (Fuji)

Note - the above lists are not all-inclusive.

What is not necessarily collectable, but worthwhile adding to a rider's vintage collection if obtained at fair market prices:
- Mass-produced lightweight bikes with reasonable build quality, good metallurgy and good overall performance.

Examples include
Panasonics
Panasonic-built Schwinns
Japan-built Bianchis
most Nishikis
Trek-Wisconsin bikes from about the mid-80s to late-80s
Maruishi Road-Ace bikes
Non Petersen-era Bridgestones
Peugeot, Gitane or Motobecane lightweights - yes, even the gaspipe ones, mainly due to the ride.
Raleigh, Dawes or other mid-range lightweights from Great Britain.

Again, above list is not all-inclusive.

What is not collectable (unless one is into the scatological):
- Mass-produced department store bicycles made with indifferent metallurgy, part specification, geometry and build quality.

Examples include
Huffy, Columbia, Murray, Free Spirit, Kent or generic/mystery brand boom-era "lightweights"

Interesting concept for a thread. Or maybe I should say concepts, plural.
Ah, lower-end French-bashing? Always fun, even if not always justified. :D
Great-riding vs. collectible? Depends on whether you ride or collect!
Appearance vs. function? Campy NR vs. VGT-Luxe, sometimes beauty wins!

On my list of tells for a lower-end bike: brake safety levers, one-piece crank or crank with integrated chain guard, dork disk, stem shifters, plastic saddle, plastic bar tape.

The thing is though, these features don't make the bike bad and many a great-riding bike came with them. They do indicate where in the price hierarchy the manufacturer expected that bike to sell, who the expected rider might be and how it would be ridden. Sometimes the difference between a lesser model and a more expensive one isn't as great as the price would suggest. But you can start with those indicators.

Sorry, no pics at this time. Maybe later, after I've had my coffee.

Fixed that for ya. ;)

Bianchi 2nd tier? Thems fighten words!

High Quality Vintage Saddles which can be ridden (Brooks B5N & Wrights W5N)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...tsOverhead.jpg

Low Quality Vintage Saddle which should probably never be ridden again :p

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/PB150119.jpg

Blah, blah, here we go again. Inviting newbies into the tribe but making sure that they think and act in the exact fashion expected of them. Revolt! Collect what you want to own. Do not be influenced by this non stop rhetoric.

So is it low quality because of its condition or because it is Ideale? Ideale is not low quality in all instances and I have my doubts that this example started life as a low life.

For most people, Brooks is synonymous with leather saddles and they do not realize that Ideale made saddles that were every bit as nice as Brooks and that they were their primary competitor.

If people follow the advice of those that have been swilling the Italian Kool Aid they are going to miss out on a lot of high quality bicycles... :)

I can understand that to a point- however, this thread spawned from a thread where a guy was going to drop $100 on a "not so good" Huffy. He thought it was worth it, probably because it was "vintage" and relatively clean. I'm all for being proud of what you've got- but you should have a realistic concept of what you've got.

Since this a teaching thread can we post more than once? Can we recover/expound on (not bash) a topic that has been covered?

Whatever you do: drive side pics please.

Poor condition and I should have clarified this. I was thinking of the many posts where there is a picture of a worn out and neglected leather saddle and the OP asks "Can this be saved and ridden again?" I found this one at the dump and had RHM recover it as his 10th saddle. It's my third Ideale, which are not of lower quality.

Now it looks like this:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Reborntop1.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...rnFullSide.jpg

I should have posted this Middlemore, which is a lower quality leather saddle (when comparred to a Brooks or Ideale).

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...dlemoretop.jpg

I knew you were kidding about Ideale being lower quality and really have to get my Brooks Swallow sent off for a recovering... I plan to mount it up in my new shop as a display piece since I like wider saddles.

Good

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6...14166cb4_b.jpg



Not good

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6...c006f880_b.jpg

Them ain't fightin' words, kith. The tiers only have to do with status as collectable items.

Italian Bianchis in Celeste are beautiful bikes, and ride wonderfully. Though currently in high demand (for good reason) they are not particularly rare. Same applies for Grant Petersen era Japan-built Bridgestones (I have three of those, and though they are well-built, they don't come close to what Tom Kellogg builds there in Breinigsville.).

I'd consider my own PX-10 a non-collectable, due to its non-standard issue Japanese parts. What ruins its collectable status makes it much easier to deal with when riding.

Randy reported that his '63 version of the same bike is not regularly ridden, due to its lack of modern conveniences. His is much more authentic than mine from a collector's point of view, but with my setup I have no problems riding the thing fifty to a hundred miles at a pop.

But it looks like you could re-purpose that Sport to make a nice pizza cutter.