DD, it strikes me that a condensation of this thread would be very useful to noobies. One reason is that there is a lot of stuff here. Another is that some of the stuff here contains qualifications which can get lost. For example, cottered cranks, older Peugeots or Fench in general, mid-level bikes, those with turkey levers, etc. A BF member will post pics in another thread of a bike that by this thread's standards should be tossed in the garbage.

The real problem for noobies is a lack of sense of perspective. A noobie may ask "Is this bike any good?" without realizing the extent of the question! Of course that question can't be answered without knowledge of what the asker is expecting to use the bike for. Likewise the great/okay/marginal/junk qualifications here need to consider the intent.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...13_1317411.jpg

After reading all of this and me not claiming to be some expert. My two cents

Having grown-up in the "Schwinn business" and worked/mechanic in my family's bike shops in the early boom 1970s. ~ Even though at 56 years of age, I still live and breathe vintage bikes, and have a huge collection.

What for me are some points that newbies need to know and can often be overlooked.
1) People often buy a bike for the reason that they want to "get in shape" - And like exercise equipment, the thrill of that resolution wears-off soon after. Then the bike simply hangs in the garage rafters or on the wall for years, or even decades. So yard-sale, Craigs list deals are out there! (I amassed my huge vintage bike collection in exactly that manner)
2) Bikes built 20, 30, 40 years ago were made of much better materials than the big box store China stuff they sell now days.
3) High quality new bicycles cost a lot of money, and this is what drives the volume of sales of the China Wally World market. It's all about price.

Buy that nice older bike that was high quality back in its day, but has been hanging around the garage for 30 years. Even if you pay a price equal to the new China bike, and then pay the LBS to tune it and replace the tires, in the end, it is almost always a better deal. Even if it ends-up costing three times the price of the department store China bike, in the end, you have a better ride, much higher quality overall components, much higher reliability, and above all, something unique.

Regardless of collectable aspects, many of the older main-stream lesser expensive bikes were simply made better. Even a well-preserved, correctly tuned and set-up 1970s Schwinn Varsity will run circles around any Department store ten speed. And it will run and run and run and not break-down.

Will early 80's Univega's ever become colectables?

No arguing here... :)

For comparison, factory Drillium.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...8/parts003.jpg

I'm open to suggestions as to the best way to do that. I'm at a loss myself :)

Agreed - I began this thread to try to answer that all-too-familiar post we see so much of :)

I was hoping this would end up being something like a one-stop shop for the basics such as components and frame material, from low to high end, both serving those looking to collect or build up something to ride. I still think we're getting there, but it's taking a bit of a winding road; any suggestions to clean this up and get to the crux of the matter would be welcomed.

Perhaps one thread dedicated to collecting and another dedicated to building/riding?

Or maybe I should just dust off and finish my book (which I started in 1998) ;)

DD

Even between collecting and building/riding/appreciating, there is the issue of time or era's. It seams that the evolution of the bicycle over time might have some significant breakthroughs as milestones. Maybe they are by part, like QR levers and their designs or RD's or FD's, Cranks, etc. Even frams whent through a lot of changes and modifications along with application or range of use. Bicycles have changed over time to be specific in their use and those that are used for everyday riding have also changed. I think you pick a perspective or set of criteria and stay close to it. I don't know how you could cover everything.

Part of the challenge in presenting the material is not know what the interest of the reader is, racing, sport, touring, mountain and all its variations. We could start a thread for each of the ones in a set we agree upon or pick a part, like a cranks. Given the range we have discussed, it is possible to have sticky threads for a number of categories of topics or parts. If there can be a book on dropouts, there can be a book on nearly every part!

What part of a bike have we, collectively, not be anal over? With due respect, there never was nor will there ever be a "Complete Book of Bicycles"! It's digitally virtual, man!

I think the "collecting" part is highly subjective. I also believe, it really doesn't matter if you have an interest in highly collectable stuff or stuff that isn't, you should collect what interests you. If you are collecting to make a living, that is an entirely different matter.

That's why in this thread I was sticking to function. 2 sets of Universal calipers from the same era, one will stop you well, the other won't. Derailleurs from the same era, one shifts better than the other. By knowing why one component works better than the other is good knowledge to have when making a decision, and I find it interesting.

I wanted to thank the brains of this thread for saving me from myself. Last night I picked up an old Schwinn double-butted moly frame for free. After getting it home I started to tear over it. I eventually found the dread rings in the paint on the toptube AND downtube right behind the head tube. Looks like the bike was crashed and bent both. Plus after looking at other aspects, the frame was definitely "tired" and an 85 Sprint (I believe after running what numbers I could find).

So the stem was worth the trip so that was taken out and I think it will fit my Trek, which I need a shorter reach on anyway.

So thanks C&V folks for keeping me off a bad and unsafe frame, which by now is on it's way to the scrap pile via a scrap metal collector.

Almost everything I know about bikes I learned either here or from Sheldon Brown (RIP). Some of the most useful stuff I've learned from you guys:

-High quality, affordable replacement parts that work well with a vintage bike, i.e. Sun CR18 rims, Panaracer Paselas, Kool Stop Continentals, grade 25 bearings, Jagwire cable in bulk.

-How to recognize older quality components, i.e. tubing stickers on frames, forged dropouts, pantographing, lug work.

-How to repair or restore older parts, i.e oxalic acid baths for frames, proper polishing technique and tools for aluminum, how to properly run new cable housings.

What has saved saved me the most time, money, and frustration though has been what you guys have told me to avoid i.e Dura Ace might be top of the line, but it's not necessarily compatible with other Shimano stuff, Cinelli stems are very nice but make sure you have handlebars that fit, etc.


And pictures. Pictures are what make this sub-forum. I think C&V posts more pictures as a group than any of the other sub-forums, therefore it's the most helpful.

Hope this helps.

You know, this post made me think: why not find some of those old threads that deal with things like this and link them here?

One of the things I've always found fascinating about this sub-forum are the sheer numbers of people here that hang modern components on vintage frames. I'd almost forgotten about that (and I have one myself, sort of...). I'm sure there are newbies that would wonder if this could even be done, and whether or not there are even modern replacement parts for their older bikes.

I think I'll spend some time looking up some helpful thread links and post them here.

Agree 100% on the pictures part - in fact, for some of the newbies that have checked into this thread, you may want to add a photo of you and your bike to the sticky "Who Exactly Are Bike Forums Members?" :)

DD

NO just no lesser brand inport brand that sold mostley entrey level bikes just not likeley.

DD

thanks for starting this thread...it is absolutely the most useful I have on Bike Forums!

Plenty of free advice for beginners:

1.Determine what you really, really, want and hold out for it.
2. Avoid shipping costs.
3. Network.
4. Read to learn.
5. Buying your first donor bike feels dirty. You will get over it.
6. If it's not your size but a good deal, pick it up (see 3).
7. Avoid Ebay fee's (see 3).
8. Aviod repaints.
9. Google is your friend.
10. Make sure it fits (see 1).
11 Trade up.
12 Have fun.

And since this is supposed to be a visual. As stated above, quality of craft matters certainly, but there are many other variables.

I would argue that the bike with the crappiest welds in my garage is one of my most expensive, sought after and collectable pieces.

Supply, demand, provenance, etc..



http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/p...79/khs7051.jpg

There are many threads here that deal with bent forks. This is something that most noobs can easily overlook. They say pictures are worth a thousand words, so thank you Scooper...

Badly bent:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps93693bea.jpg

Bent forks can be easy to miss. You're focused on the details and finding the short comings. It's a good idea to stand way back like you're taking a picture; it'll be easier to spot. Most sellers won't even know the fork is bent.

Well it should be a given but one should always check for a bent out of true fork or frame. Along with stuck seat post or stem these are the most common reasons fairly nice older road bikes are sold cheap. Which may not be easly spotted on first look.

Yes it is true that a lot of sellers don't even know that the fork or even frame on there bike is slightly bent.