rootboy 

Nah. Just get yourself some of this at the hardware store. They must have it in the Netherlands. Scrub your frame down real good, wash it well. Then rinse it well. Wipe down with clean, dry rags and rubber gloves on. Blow it dry with a hair dryer and paint the danged thing with a couple of coats of good etching primer. Without stopping mid-way in the process.

https://www.deerso.com/product/d7473...FeMSOgod0nwAIA

ianpaschal

They don't.

I actually just got back from looking for a self-etching primer. They don't carry it. "Why not?" I asked. "We used to, about 5 or 6 years ago, but the EU now outlaws the sale of harsher products," the staff member said. "Harsher product?" I asked, "You literally drink phosphoric acid when you have a glass of cola. Do you know how harsh mixing zinc and phosphoric acid is? It's so safe that children wash pennies with the same chemical process." "I'm sorry, I don't make the rules," he replied. "Right. Of course you don't." I said.

If there are political parties fighting against DRM, I am about to start a political party fighting against industrial safety regulations, particularly those imposed by the EU. I hope to poll well with hobbyists, mechanics, designers, and DIY-ers. Unite!

ianpaschal

The way it seems to work here is that if it's not safe for a baby to eat a box of it, or drink a bottle of it, you can't buy it.

repechage

That is why I suggested a automotive paint supplier (that sells to the trade, not the public) or an auto body repair shop. They will have access to stuff. Otherwise, you should find a vendor to do the work for you and admit defeat.

ianpaschal

Yup. There's an actual paint shop that I am going to call tomorrow (closed today for Easter), otherwise I'm going to have to give up.

Either that or use just a normal non-etching primer.

tanuihu

After cleaning the rust, apply car wax on would help a lot!
While car wax might not be easy to apply, there are some so-called easy-to-apply bike wax out there like Muc-Off or winkwax. Muc-off is availabe in Euro, but expensive. Not sure if you can find winkwax in europe.

ianpaschal

Gentlemen, the patient's condition has stabilised.

The paint shop is actually run by a British fellow who imports American and British products that aren't produced under the Dutch regulations.

I managed to pick up some self-etching primer from his shop, and did the following at high speed:

1. Apply another WD40 bath.
2. Scrub rust off while re-applying more WD40.
3. When everything was shiny, I wiped as much WD40 off with a clean rag to remove contaminants.
4. I then applied acetone with a second rag to remove the last traces of grease. I was also wearing a fresh pair of gloves to protect my hands from the acetone and to ensure no finger prints got on the steel.
5. I then wasted no time applying the primer. The flash rust seems to form 20-30 minutes after WD-40 was removed and the steel was re-exposed, so it was important to get the primer on A.S.A.P.

The good news is that I accidentally spilled some acetone on the project when I was cleaning up. It took the primer back off exposing metal, however it's been sitting bare for about 2 hours now with no rust-reforming, so it looks like between the WD40, acetone, and lastly zinc & phosphoric acid mix (in the primer) whatever was contaminating the steel has been removed.

Later, I talked to one of my friends who studies chemistry at our university. We looked up the chemical contents of the toilet cleaner and it contains a certain molecule that forms extremely strong bonds with metal. If diluted in water (in a toilet or sink) it's safe, but when used in open air, it basically viciously attacked as much iron as it could.

In the toilet setting this is no problem: bond to and remove iron atoms until it hits the ceramic surface and stops. Rusty water stains gone. On the bike though there was no thin layer of iron on top of ceramic... so it just ate away at the metal as long as it had air to fuel the creation of iron oxide.

So, never again will I use toilet cleaners to clean steel or iron. They are designed to destroy and remove that particular atom. Let this serve as a cautionary tale, guys!

Thank you so much to everyone who helped me "troubleshoot" this issue. I'll be sharing pictures of this sexy bike as soon as it's done so you can all see the frame whose life you helped save.

Reynolds 

Glad you fixed it.
Too late, but glass beading would have been an alternative for cleaning that frame IMO.

ianpaschal

Yeah, although I'm short on cash and finding places to do such things in/around Amsterdam has proven extremely difficult. I did find out today that there is finally a place that does custom powder coats (as well as prep work with media blasting) but it's a half hour away from Amsterdam by car (which as a proud cyclist I do not own).

cycle_maven

I knew a guy who used toilet cleaner on a porcelain sink once. It ate the sink and the faucets. Nasty stuff. Glad you solved it.

vjp

I hope that it works out for you in the end, but first of all "shiny" is NOT ideal for painting it should be scuffed and that is why bead blasting works so well. Secondly, you will probably regret all the WD 40 you used, it will leach out of vent holes and cracks/crevices and you might find your paint lifting.

Grand Bois

I've never heard that.

Reynolds 531 is not chromoly.

ianpaschal

I've heard it from 2 different frame builders as partial justifications of why it's better than hi-ten.

You're right; that was some bad information from a few weeks ago when I first researched Reynolds 531. After this incident I've done a lot more research into the chemistry of steel. I think though, that although it's not 4130, Reynolds 531's chemical composition is close enough to other flavours of chromo steel (41xx) that it's pretty comparable (half a percent of Cr difference). In this context (oxidation speeds) it doesn't make that big of a difference, certainly versus a hi-ten frame.