De Rosa differences ...
 

Between a Primato, Professional, and a Diamant. Is there much of a difference in quality, build or ride-wise? I know the Diamant had the webbed bottom bracket. None of the others did? I read some say that all Primatos were made of EL OS. Is that really true? Were Professionals and Diamants built with a variety of tube sets?

Any of you C&V'ers have experience with all three? Thanks.

My Primato has a webbed BB...they stopped doing it at some point because of cost. I'm not sure when the cut offs are. There are neo-Primatos made at later dates which I think used other tubing, so I think the answer depends on when it was made. One member had a De Rosa labeled Primato that was TSX, but I think the group consensus is that it wasn't a Primato. I've only seen one Diamanté, and it looked like a Primato. If there was a difference, I didn't see it.

The professional was SL or SLX...not oversized. I think some later ones used TSX. They're probably still making them, but I don't know what tubing they'd use. Up until the 90s there was only one model - a De Rosa. Some called them professionals, or giro d italias...but they're De Rosas.

Primatos don't come up much and they aren't cheap. The Primato is probably the most iconic 90s steel frame, other than an MXL. Professionals are easier to find.

The micro fusion bottom bracket, and frames without cs bridge, started in 86-87 with the "pros".

I have a '85 "pro" with the cs bridge. I have never owned a Primato…but as Aaron said they are highly desirable.

I do own an EL-OS bike though…Chesini Innovation…and the ride is quite nice.

The later TSX bikes were Nuovo Classicos….and this nameplate carries on today, albeit with different tubing.

I'm not familiar with the Diamant (?)…but…the Diamante chainstays are one of the features that give the 80's De Rosa it's legendary, and well deserved, reputation.

Later Primatos (Neo-) were built with Dedacciai Zero Uno, I believe…which is not as "advanced" a steel as EL-OS.

There were also late production original Primatos built with Genius…this is the one I want…and frankly, I will sell my SLX Pro when I finally find one.

-Mark in St. Louis

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=378035http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=378036
I can only claim first hand knowledge of an '87, which is a most excellent ride.
I have an EL-OS custom (nice), but would like to experience TSX.

I wasn't sure when the Genius Primatos wee made Mark, and some people refer to those as neo-Primatos as well. I also could be wrong (I often am), but I think there were TSX De Rosas prior to the nuovo Classico and model distinctions that were just referred to as De Rosas. The differentiation would have been calling it SL, SLX or TSX.

This is a 96' Primato with the webbed BB shell. It has all of the more desirable features in a Primato - diamanté stays, flat fork crown, webbed bb shell.

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps011f9948.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...psba09dac1.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps15c52e7c.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf02b7222.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...psea88a2f6.jpg

This is an SLX De Rosa that is essentially what you called a professional with a rare paint scheme. This one is especially unusual because it's the only 35th I know of with a sloping fork crown. The fork does match the frame number. Best guess is it was custom request or a fork was last in shipment and this was sent as a replacement.

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps42559f69.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc56d650e.jpg

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd8551b8b.jpg

Aaron…You're right, of course, about the naming thing…De Rosa had no model names AFAIK, until the Primato and Nuovo Classico came out (era wise)…not sure if there was a TSX "pro" before that.

Also, you are correct about the Genius…that was the original Neo-Primato…my bad.

Well, that's the one I want anyway!

-Mark

Gotcha. I'd want a pre-ic lug De Rosa...there's really no other De rosa I'm interested in at this point.

To answer the other questions the OP asked, my Primato rides differently than a Professional - it's more comfortable for me and seems stiffer in the rear. I like it a lot more. I would think a diamanté is going to be the same as a Primato - but I've only ever seen the one. A Primato is also going to be much harder to find and more $$$. I had a De Rosa professional that I rode for a bit and sold. It was a fine bike, but it wasn't special to me. I actually liked my Miyata 916 more.

As far as build quality - it's usually safe to assume that all De Rosas are going to be well made. The real differences in craft are pre-IC lug anyway. One of those De Rosas will be $$$$$ and very hard to find. I hope to have one eventually. A Primato new was a LOT more money than a Classico, or one of the SLX De Rosas they still sold. More $$$ doesn't always translate into more care/craft.

There was no 'Diamante' model. I believe the confusion comes from 'Diamante' being prominently displayed on the chain stay of the Primato.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...0/P1050204.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t...0/P3203220.JPG

De Rosa did have model names in their catalogs.

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/de_rosa/2.jpg
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/de_rosa2/2.jpg
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/de_rosa2/3.jpg
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/de_rosa-86/3.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s.../derosa015.jpg

Actually I have seen a De Rosa labeled Diamanté as a model name. Just once - and it looked identical to a Primato.

They did have a track model - and I do remember the aero one during that craze. I remember the aero braze on for shifters, I don't remember other differences. Generally speaking, you can call it a professional, a Giro...etc., but they are De Rosas. SL, SLX. The aero one is a little seen exception. They're De Rosas. They may have assigned models based on parts at some points and in some markets. The frames are De Rosas.

Aaron, Mark, jiangshi- thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject!!!

Aaron- your EL OS and 35th are absolutely gorgeous!! I want a steel De Rosa pretty bad! But I'm also tempted by a Titanio, as you probably recall.

Wildwood- yours is too!!

I have a Titanio. I prefer the Primato. If you want a ti bike, I'd go Merlin.

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps85bd87ad.jpg

Just to confuse the issue, in Germany, when the Primato "model" came out, we refused to have the name "primato" written on the frames as we were worried that potential customers would be turned off by any supposed tie-in to primates. De Rosa bikes were not monkey bikes. So at least initially no bikes sold in Germany carried the primato name. Just for information "primato" in Italian corresponds to "leading position" or "primacy" or "supremacy".

CDM - was there a model name?

I saw one bike that had a Diamante decal only on it. It was years ago, and from Belgium.

IIRC, Mondonico also had Diamante on the stays of one of their models.

Since I now own a red Professional just like the catalog, any chance you can provide a scan of the catalog? I really like the petite seat stays.

Thanks.

It could have been a European thing - maybe related to what CDM mentioned above? I know that I saw one, and it didn't have a horn attached ;)

Just took the Primato out for a brief ride. It really is a great bike, especially with the gp4000 tubulars.

Bulgier.net has catalog scans.

thx :thumb:

Hello - sorry to resurrect a stale thread, but I was intrigued by the discussion on whether or not the original Primato was ever manufactured in Genius tubing. I think there were at least some made in Genius because I think I've got one myself.

I have three Primatos in my stable. All have the diamond shaped chainstays. However, with two of the bikes (and every other Primato I've ever observed) there is a smooth transition between the diamond section and the fully rounded profile near the bottom bracket. On the third bike, the transition is very prominent with noticeable 'creases' where the diamond shape ends. Also, the diamond profile seems to be slightly sharper in this third bike. Apart from my bike I've only ever seen these chainstays on Genius Neo-Primatos. The other things that in my mind increases the likelihood that it is a Genius Primato is that the bike appears to have come new with a Genius unicrown fork (I bought of the original owner who confirmed the fork was original). The bike didn't have a Columbus sticker when I bought it and the original owner, so I put in an EL/OS sticker thinking all Prims are EL/OS. However, given the differences between this and my other two I'm thinking now I should have whacked on a Genius sticker. Anyway, could be all wrong, but hopefully of interest to other De Rosa nuts like me. :)

The photos below hopefully show the distinctive chains stays on the red one. Both bikes are definitely original primatos with webbed bottom brackets and extremely light o/s tubing. The blue one I think is circa 1994 and has the conventional stays I've seen on every other Primato I've observed. The red one I suspect is late 95 and I expect has Genius tubing.

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stale thread? It's only 6 days since the last post. LOL.

I only see two Primatos in your pics. Pics of the third or it didn't happen. ;)

Seriously though, you are one lucky dude to have so many Primatos.

It's funny but an older Neo Primato popped up. It has Genius tubing, webbed BB, and the diamanté CS like you've described. F/F for $1270. Looks practically new. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379423http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379424http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379425http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379426

Then a Professional with EL OS tubing. Has a webbed BB but no diamanté CS. Also in immaculate condition. I can get the F/F/HS for $1000. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379429http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379430http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379431http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379432

The other I'm considering is a white mica Primato F/F/HS owned by a well known poster and De Rosa fanatic on the other forums.

Between the 3, which should I choose? I'm leaning toward the Neo Primato Genius tubing.

^^^That's an odd looking Genius tubed Neo, from the ones I've seen…Is it a repaint???

Any, all of them would be nice…I would get the one that fits best. What are the sizes/particulars??

-Mark

Mark, what looks odd about this Genius NP? Is it the color? To me, the red seems darker than the current day Faema color scheme. I queried the seller regarding re-paint and haven't heard back yet. Hopefully it won't be a repaint because the more I look at this one, the more I like the almost ox blood red color. It would be a downer if it was a repaint. But everything else seems to match up with what 8speed wrote in his post. It's probably everything I want in my De Rosa- Faema color, webbed BB, diamanté CS.

The only thing missing is the fact that it isn't made of EL OS. How good is Genius compared to EL OS? How about Brain, and Nemo? IIRC, these I mentioned are part of next generation of steel compared to all the SL, SLX, SP, TSX, etc??

Both of the ones I pictured have 55 top tubes. The white mica one has 54.5. All would fit perfectly since a 55 ETT is my ideal size.

Ride-fly, here's your proof of no 3 Primato. :) This one needs a lot of work and I don't really like showing it yet. I bought it to save it from being converted to a fixie, but it will take a while for me to find the funds to restore properly.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379612. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379610http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379611http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=379613

As for your choice, I and partial to the look of the diamante stays, so that would exclude the Professional for me. I like the sharper look of Genius chain stays but prefer the more understated presentation of the original Primato. I'd go the Primato, all other things being equal.