Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Half Step Gearing?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Half Step Gearing?

Old 05-07-14, 08:22 PM
  #1  
jyl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
Half Step Gearing?

I'm interested in learning about half step gearing. Does anyone ride a bike with such gearing? What are its strengths and weaknesses? How difficult it is to convert a C&V bike to half step?

The reason I'm asking is because my latest purchase - the Raleigh Team Pro - has 53/42 x 13-17 six speed. I want to get a 23 or even a 24 big cog for climbing. I'm riding it on a century in June.

But with just five steps, going from 13 to 23 looks to require much larger steps than I'm currently enjoying. And the resulting ratios look very duplicative. I started playing with different chainring sizes - virtually, using a gearing calculator - to see if I could get less duplication and narrower steps. And it occurred to me that this is, or I think it is, what half step gearing is supposed to do.

So, I'm wondering if it makes sense to convert the bike to half step and it is even possible. Crank is old Super Record and so is the rest of the drivetrain. I'm limited to six speeds, or maaaybe seven.
jyl is offline  
Old 05-07-14, 08:39 PM
  #2  
Essthreetee
Senior Member
 
Essthreetee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central California
Posts: 1,078

Bikes: 2001 LeMond Nevada City, 92 Merlin Titanium, '84 Torpado Super Strada, 84 Schwinn Tempo, '81 Bianchi Limites, '73 Raleigh Supercourse

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 35 Posts
I did half step on my early build. I liked it, although the shifting was a little complex.
I went so far as to create a spread sheet to calculate the gears...that way I could make changes either in front, or rear (virtually) to see how the gear ratios and shifting should go.

It would be easier on a bike with Brifters I would think. That way you could shift both front and rear with little effort.

In the end, I have done away with it, I am sure there are far more experienced riders that can give you better input...as I am still a newbie...I think.
Essthreetee is offline  
Old 05-07-14, 08:46 PM
  #3  
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
My touring bike ('84 Specialized Sequoia) has half-step plus granny gearing. The idea of half-step is that the percentage difference between the two chainrings is half as large as the percentage difference between successive cogs. Then if you're on the larger chain ring and want to shift to the next higher gear you shift down a "half-step" to the small chain ring but also shift up a "full-step" to the next smaller cog therefore getting a net "half-step" up in gearing. The advantage is small, even steps between gears and no redundant gears. The disadvantage is that you do lots of double shifting (both ring and cog).

So if you went with a 13, 15, 17, 20, 23, 26 freewheel the percentage gaps range from 13% to 18% and an average of about 15%. Then you want a chainring gap of about half that, so a 48, 52 ring set would be about right. The 'plus granny' comes in when you also want some really low gears so you get a triple chain ring with the largest two forming a half-step arrangement and the third is much smaller to climb the steep grades. (My Spec. has rings of 30, 46, and 50.)

The advantage of half-step (small difference between gears) essentially went away with the move to more and more cogs. And, in practice, I hardly ever find myself actually shifting my half-step bike in the designed sequence - but I might do so when riding in an area with smaller grade changes.

Last edited by prathmann; 05-07-14 at 08:49 PM.
prathmann is offline  
Old 05-07-14, 08:48 PM
  #4  
TomJD
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My bike is a triple set up as half step plus granny. Rear freewheel is 14-17-20-24-28, front chainwheel 50-45-30. Don't try and shift sequentially through the gears. Instead, rough tune gear ratio with the rear derailler to match larger changes in terrain, then fine tune with the front. Very easy to shift between large and middle chainwheels since the difference between the two is relatively small, and I have 9 different gear ratios using the two large chainrings (avoiding large-large crosschaining). Perhaps not optimal for racing, but I think it works well for day touring.

Last edited by TomJD; 05-08-14 at 02:49 PM. Reason: missed a gear on the freewheel!
TomJD is offline  
Old 05-07-14, 11:01 PM
  #5  
Lascauxcaveman 
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,899

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Mentioned: 183 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1577 Post(s)
Liked 471 Times in 275 Posts
My Peugeot Vagabond was factory set up as half-step-plus-granny. I absolutely hated it for climbing.

But, there's climbing, and then there's climbing. For instance, I gain over 1000 feet in my 4-mile commute home. For this, it seems a big ring, middle ring and a small ring work best for me; not big, "biggish" and granny.

The 52-45-28 is now a 52-39-28 and it feels better for the kind of hills I'm doing.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Trek 400 ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 05-07-14, 11:35 PM
  #6  
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
My Peugeot Vagabond was factory set up as half-step-plus-granny. I absolutely hated it for climbing.

But, there's climbing, and then there's climbing. For instance, I gain over 1000 feet in my 4-mile commute home. For this, it seems a big ring, middle ring and a small ring work best for me; not big, "biggish" and granny.

The 52-45-28 is now a 52-39-28 and it feels better for the kind of hills I'm doing.
Of course 52-45 wasn't either half-step or alpine gearing, but something half way in between - and without the advantages of either.
prathmann is offline  
Old 05-07-14, 11:39 PM
  #7  
Lascauxcaveman 
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,899

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Mentioned: 183 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1577 Post(s)
Liked 471 Times in 275 Posts
I'm going off the top of my head (bike is up on the shelf right now). It might have been 50-45 or 52-48. All I remember is thinking "Is that it?" whilst shifting from big to middle ring.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Trek 400 ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 05-08-14, 06:21 PM
  #8  
old's'cool
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,371

Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by TomJD View Post
My bike is a triple set up as half step plus granny. Rear freewheel is 14-17-20-24-28, front chainwheel 50-45-30. Don't try and shift sequentially through the gears. Instead, rough tune gear ratio with the rear derailler to match larger changes in terrain, then fine tune with the front. Very easy to shift between large and middle chainwheels since the difference between the two is relatively small, and I have 9 different gear ratios using the two large chainrings (avoiding large-large crosschaining). Perhaps not optimal for racing, but I think it works well for day touring.
Well stated Tom. I've converted to half-step + granny on all my mainstay bikes, and would never consider anything else on a utilitarian bike. Most of my riding is daily commuting (21 mile round trip), but I throw in some local shopping trips and 20 mile workout rides now and then.
On your gearing, with the 14-28 freewheel as a given, I'd say your middle and large chainring combo is close to optimal, but you'd get a little more even spacing between ratios with a 46 instead of 45 middle ring.
old's'cool is offline  
Old 05-08-14, 06:47 PM
  #9  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,369

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1202 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 167 Posts
I set my Masi up with half-step gearing and I like it for some things. In practice it makes fine-tuning the cadence easy. Half the shifts require only the front, and the other half require the front and one click on the rear. If you're used to the front shift being a big overall range shifter, it doesn't work that way. But it encourages me to ride harder because those front shifts for fine-tuning are so easy, and that's a good thing.

A gear calculator shows what works and what doesn't. There really aren't many options. The rear spacings need to be X and the front Y where Y falls in between X, end of story. If you want either X or Y to be smaller jumps, the other must be also.

In my case, since my Masi crank is a 144BCD Campy the small ring had to be 42. The lows I wanted required a 42/34 combination. So with Pastor Bob's help I spaced 6 cogs as evenly as possible between 14 and 34. Given that spacing and small ring, a 1-1/2 step would have meant a large ring of 54 or 55, producing a high gear at 100 inches or more which I really don't need. So 1-1/2 step is out of the question. So 1/2 step is the only viable option. Rings of 46 and 42 would have been a nearly perfect half-step but it brings the high down. A 47 big ring is also good with a better high. A 48 big ring starts to slew the crossover points away from halfway between the rear spacings. So I decided to go with 47 and it has worked out well.

In practice I've also discovered that the 5-tooth front shift is pretty small, pretty subtle. Had I gone with a 46 big ring I probably would have felt that shifting the front didn't do anything.

Maybe you can find a different way to do it. But with the low I wanted I had few options. YMMV.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 05-08-14, 07:12 PM
  #10  
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Posts: 5,703

Bikes: one of each

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I had a sweet half step set up a few years ago (46/49 in front and 13-36 9 speed in back) and it was great fun from a theoretical standpoint but I lived in hilly territory and I got a crick in my neck from toying with the shifters all the time.
I live in the flats now and I've picked up a 50/45/36 crankset. Maybe I'll try it again. I also have a 36/48 crankset that might be just as good for my purposes but having those two close ratio rings would ad just that much more flexibility and consistency to my cadence.
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline  
Old 05-08-14, 07:25 PM
  #11  
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,268

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 19 Posts
49/52 with a widely spaced 14-32 5 speed gets me 9 of 10 possible gearings...



Half step with a granny on my touring bike mated to a 6 speed block... still playing with this set up.



Do the gear math to see what chainwheel and cog combinations will maximize the possible gearing... modern 8-10 speed equipped bikes do not really benefit from a half step since the steps are already quite close.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 05-08-14, 11:50 PM
  #12  
Paramount1973 
Senior Member
 
Paramount1973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The First State.
Posts: 1,165

Bikes: Schwinn Continental, Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn High Plains, Schwinn World Sport, Trek 420, Trek 930,Trek 660, Novara X-R, Giant Iguana. Fuji Sagres mixte.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
My Peugeot Vagabond was factory set up as half-step-plus-granny. I absolutely hated it for climbing.

But, there's climbing, and then there's climbing. For instance, I gain over 1000 feet in my 4-mile commute home. For this, it seems a big ring, middle ring and a small ring work best for me; not big, "biggish" and granny.

The 52-45-28 is now a 52-39-28 and it feels better for the kind of hills I'm doing.
I agree. I had a similar setup on one of my commuters and went to a 52-39-26 since I seem to spend most of my time in the middle and granny rings. I have several medium height but quite steep hills to contend with on my commute. A number of these are on a trail network in a natural area. They didn't grade these to accommodate vehicle traffic. It's a roller coaster ride.
Paramount1973 is offline  
Old 05-09-14, 05:55 PM
  #13  
old's'cool
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,371

Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 35 Posts
My preferred setup is 36-49-52 front, and something like 13-15-17-20-23-26 or 13-15-17-20-24-28 in back.
With a 5 speed cluster, I like 36-48-52 with 13-15-18-21-26 or 14-17-20-24-28.
The 28 vs 26 max cog just determines how often I have to resort to the 36T granny.
old's'cool is offline  
Old 05-09-14, 07:46 PM
  #14  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,369

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1202 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 167 Posts
As I recall (and I know I recall correctly because I checked), jyl asked for general info and in-use impressions of half-step with a 2 x 6 gearing. That's an ideal situation where it could be beneficial, and not especially comparable to any arrangement with a triple crank or a modern N >= 10 cassette. A triple crank might be a valid comparison except that with a granny gear you don't need an especially large cog, which means both your "single step" on the rear and your "half step" on the front can be pretty small.

Whatever you choose for total FW range or step-spacing, the front by definition should be about half that (as plotted on a log scale). If the rear steps are smaller then so will be half of that. Eventually you get half steps that are so small they are effectively no shift at all, so you don't want them too small. (Rings of 52 and 49 may make a numerically good half step with a corncob FW but in my non-racing experience it is pointless because the shift is too small to be significant.)

The other pertinent question is - how do you use it on the road? If you want a half step shift, which is the whole point, then you shift the front if it goes the way you want. If the front goes the wrong way then you also have to shift the rear one cog in the direction you want. It makes shifting convenient for fine changes. It does not give you a single-shift way to jump to a lower gear range; to do that you need to drop the RD into the right range and then start your fine tuning.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 05-09-14, 10:11 PM
  #15  
Chrome Molly 
Senior Member
 
Chrome Molly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Forksbent, MN
Posts: 3,271

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Unless you go with half step plus a granny gear, your gearing range will not be extended very much with just half step. In fact if you retain your high gearing, it might be lessened.

Having the large steps with the granny is usually welcomed (such as on a steep climb where you want a big gap to an easier gear). Tightened up range on the topside is also good and that's what the half step provides (for the flats/wind where the large gaps are not wanted and you still need enough gear not to spin out).

My trek runs a 50-47-26 with a 13-28 7 speed freewheel. The top two can half step down to a reasonable 45 gear inches, and when that's not enough I have five cogs between 41 and 25. It's a nice combo having 14 speeds cutting almost evenly between 103 and 45, every gear that it can run without extreme cross chaining is usable. I go all the way down to 25 because with friction shifting sometimes you need to back off a bit longer on climbs to get to the very low gears and it takes longer between gears than indexed setups. The 25 allows me to get going from almost a dead stop on hills.

Last edited by Chrome Molly; 05-09-14 at 10:19 PM.
Chrome Molly is offline  
Old 05-09-14, 10:30 PM
  #16  
Zaphod Beeblebrox 
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
 
Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Posts: 7,536

Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
i ran half-step for a while and decided I just preferred a corncob with chainrings sized appropriately to make the steps even in the ranges i want. Double shifts are a pain in the ass. Yeah you can gain some technique and get good at it but anybody who tells you a double shift is as easy as a single shift is full of shift.
__________________
--Don't Panic.
Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline  
Old 05-10-14, 12:15 AM
  #17  
jyl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,642

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
This crank is 144 BCD so I can't do multi range gearing.

I'm doing multi range gearing on another bike project. It will have a road triple 53/42/30 + straight block (or as close to a block as I can get).

But on the Team Pro, I have to use cross over gearing or half step. I can't think of any other possibility given the limitations of the Super Record crank.
jyl is offline  
Old 05-10-14, 06:19 AM
  #18  
jonwvara 
Senior Member
 
jonwvara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington County, Vermont, USA
Posts: 3,341

Bikes: 1966 Dawes Double Blue, 1976 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1975 Raleigh Sprite 27, 1980 Univega Viva Sport, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1984 Lotus Classique, 1976 Motobecane Grand Record

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Liked 249 Times in 137 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
This crank is 144 BCD so I can't do multi range gearing.

I'm doing multi range gearing on another bike project. It will have a road triple 53/42/30 + straight block (or as close to a block as I can get).

But on the Team Pro, I have to use cross over gearing or half step. I can't think of any other possibility given the limitations of the Super Record crank.
Would it be advantageous to convert it to a triple? You could do that with a 144 triplizer ring. Self-serving of me to bring that up since I sell them, but it might be worth considering.
__________________
www.redclovercomponents.com

"Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
--Ogden Nash
jonwvara is offline  
Old 05-10-14, 06:25 AM
  #19  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,369

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1202 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 167 Posts
Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
Would it be advantageous to convert it to a triple? You could do that with a 144 triplizer ring. Self-serving of me to bring that up since I sell them, but it might be worth considering.
Though I don't have one on Jon's, I have seen one and it is quite the thing.

In fact, I've been contemplating one. a 14-28 s-speed FW with 30,42,52 rings produces a 1-1/2 step pattern between the big and middle, and 2-1/2 step with a low of about 28in on the granny. The downside of using a big FW like I'm doing now is weight. Whether I will pull this trigger is not clear, but it looks like a nice option.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller

Last edited by jimmuller; 05-12-14 at 08:34 AM. Reason: 43, 42, whatever
jimmuller is offline  
Old 05-10-14, 06:44 AM
  #20  
cobrabyte
one life on two wheels
 
cobrabyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 2,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
I have a half-step + granny on my Specialized Rockhopper 50-46-28 and 14-28 5 speed. Actually, I am replacing the worn out Suntour 5 speed with a shiny new IRD one tonight as I leave tomorrow for a week camping tour. I really like this setup a lot, works great for this bike. In FL where I have ridden it most, I like being able to adjust the gears to suit wind conditions and road conditions. I find the larger jumps of a traditional triple crank to be too big for the little adjustments I need on this bike. The granny gear allows me to climb like a mountain goat. I'd say brifters, or bar-end shifters are the way to go. DT shifters would be more of a hassle though not a deal breaker for me, I'm a definite half-step convert for 5 or 6 speed bikes.



side note: 2 prong Suntour freewheels, what PAIN to remove! Had to bust out the old bench vise last night for that one.
cobrabyte is offline  
Old 05-10-14, 08:01 AM
  #21  
old's'cool
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,371

Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 35 Posts
If the single steps are small enough, double shifts are no biggie.
old's'cool is offline  
Old 05-10-14, 12:50 PM
  #22  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 20,545

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 440 Times in 322 Posts
Originally Posted by old's'cool View Post
If the single steps are small enough, double shifts are no biggie.
Most of the time you just shift the rear, using the front for fine-tuning when needed. I run either half-step or 1.5-step on all of my bikes.

One setup I liked was a close-ratio triple: 48-45-34 / 13-15-17-19-21-24.

The other trick we used to do in the 1970s was to swap the inner chainring for 1.5-step for hill work and half-step for flats, e.g.:

Either 50-42 or 50-47, with 14-16-18-20-23-26.

I have set up my Peugeot commuter w/ 45-42 / 13-15-17-20-23-26, which I really like.

Caution: Most of today's cranksets are incompatible w/ half-step, because the spiders are too thick, causing the chain to fall between gears. I wanted to run 53-50-39 on a Campag. Veloce, but couldn't make the top end work, so I settled on half-step plus overdrive: 50-42-39, giving me 1.5-step on the large and middle sprockets and half-step on the middle and small, and therefore a few redundant combinations.

Overall I think 1.5-step is probably my favorite combination. The gap at the bottom is fine, but I sometimes miss the missing ratio at the top, although one can work around that with more cogs, e.g.:
50-42/14-15-16-18-20-23-26, with 50/15 providing a very welcome 90-inch gear between the 96 top and the 84-incher.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 05-11-14, 06:27 AM
  #23  
LeicaLad 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,735
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Just another example:



Gear chart, done the old way.

__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse) (1 owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen) (crashed out)
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement frame)
1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
(replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)

LeicaLad is offline  
Old 05-11-14, 01:21 PM
  #24  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 10,922
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2294 Post(s)
Liked 1,506 Times in 686 Posts
Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
The other pertinent question is - how do you use it on the road? If you want a half step shift, which is the whole point,
When did this become the whole point? It certainly was not the point in the first usage of half step gearing, at least from the race point of view, I don't know about a touring point of view. Typical front rings were 51/48 or 52/49. The back was 14/16/18/20/22. Racers used 6 gears through the 50s, 52/14, 52/16, 52/18, 49/18, 49/20 and finally 49/22.

When did getting 9-10 gears, crossing chaining in the process, become the vogue?
iab is offline  
Old 05-11-14, 03:45 PM
  #25  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,369

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1202 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 167 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
When did this become the whole point?
Okay, so maybe it's only half the point (and I admit I have never raced anyone). But the point is, if you place the cogs close enough together then you don't need the half step ratios in between. If the front shift is about the same as the rear you end up with a bunch of redundant gears, and except for the very high or low you have little reason to choose either ring over the other. But if you're going to set up a half-step system at all then the point would seem to be to be able to get to a ratio in between what the rear offers. And to me that seems to be the whole point, but perhaps others have different points.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.