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This Cannondale Criterium Series Is Killing Me

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This Cannondale Criterium Series Is Killing Me

Old 06-08-14, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Completed a 60mi ride today. Climbing the ladder.

The Crit series is doing well on longer rides.
The criterium bikes work well as distance bikes and mine has been on several longer rides. I tightened up the drivetrain ratios after I built a dedicated distance bike so consequently the crit bike became less "hill friendly".

Brad
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Old 06-08-14, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
The criterium bikes work well as distance bikes and mine has been on several longer rides. I tightened up the drivetrain ratios after I built a dedicated distance bike so consequently the crit bike became less "hill friendly".

Brad
But it smokes on the flats.
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Old 06-09-14, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
But it smokes on the flats.
Only the engine holds it back.

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Old 06-09-14, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
The criterium bikes work well as distance bikes and mine has been on several longer rides. I tightened up the drivetrain ratios after I built a dedicated distance bike so consequently the crit bike became less "hill friendly".
At the risk of being rude I gotta ask. I'm quite intrigued at all your praise for the criterium bikes and their capabilities but these also sound just like my Cannondale: Model year 2000 R600 9spd triple, Slice CF fork, modern Easton ergo bars and '95 Vetta Tri-shock 'serving spoon' saddle.



I've really enjoyed riding thru two sets of tires and into the current Vittoria's. Short rides, my usual 30 mile scoot for aerobic exercise, bit of gravel grinding and a couple of metric centuries. It handles great, climbs like a squirrel and shifts great with the well tuned 105 kit. Some say these frames are a harsh ride but mine is a very close second to my 1976 Raleigh Professional DL-180 for ride quality. It behaves just like you say your late 80s and 90s frames are behaving. Great into to road bikes which has lead me to my three steel 70s and 80s machines (and the Gitane frame awaiting a plan)

Is this frame like the criterium frames you folks have such high praise for? What differences? Is model year 2000 outside the C&V envelope? This fall it will be 25 years old. If'n it was a car or motorcycle it would be considered vintage and get vintage plates.
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Old 06-09-14, 06:42 AM
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Check your math, Prowler. Pretty cool bike though, like the fade paint!
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Old 06-09-14, 08:25 AM
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[MENTION=30894]Chuckk[/MENTION]

I managed to retrieve my blue '94(?) R500 Series 3.0 frameset, RX100/Mavic wheels from that bike last week. It came with the aluminum fork, and looks like jyl's Cannondale.
With all this talk on these Cannondales, I'm now stoked to build this one back up somehow and see how it compares to previous aluminum, and my steel.
And see if that aluminum fork is harsh or not. I did have a NOS GT Aero Edge factory CF threaded fork I had planned as an 'upgrade', but that's now history.
My daily ride was a modern Trek 1000 with an aluminum fork, but detected no harsh buzzy ride.
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Old 06-09-14, 09:25 AM
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Prowler, There really isn't much difference between the crit frame and the road race frame until one needs to rail a tight turn at speed. The crit bike will simply show it's tail to a non crit geometry bike. There is a penalty for this however as IME there is almost no warning when limits have been exceeded and the bike then low sides. In addition to the steeper head tube angle the crit frame also had a slightly larger diameter down tube than the road race frame to make it stiffer. When integrated shifters became available the need to turn sharply became less important and a bike with road race geometry was quite worthy for crit racing. Probably the decline of parking lot crit races also played a part in the decline of crit geometry from the different manufacturers.

Your R600T is very similar to my '99 R1000T. With their level top tubes and 1" threaded headsets I suppose that they can be considered modern classics?

Brad

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Old 06-09-14, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckk
What makes a Crit?
I'd say the steep head angle 73-74 degrees, short wheelbase ~38", and high crank height ~27mm.
Which matched most of the tight course U.S. racing back then.

I've forgotten the exact dates, but it seems like in '89 ALL of the R frames were like that, and the next year or two half the models were, and after that only one model (which actually had the Criterium model name).
Fun to check out the specs in the catalogs.

I think that maybe the rough riding rep goes to the ones that had the aluminum forks rather than the original Tange steel.


actually, my '89 is 25 years old
My crit has an alu fork and I dont find the ride any more harsh than the 85 Trek 460 road racer with True Temper1 frame. I think internet parrots have perpetrated the myth that if it says Alu it will be harsh. My criterium series is only harsh if riding on broken, fragmented asphalt and chip seal. I have asphalt in decent shape here in my area so that isnt a problem.

I enjoy that snappy handling with super quick responsive acceleration. The light wheels/tires add to this feel. And fit....the frame is a perfect fit to my body type and riding style.
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Old 06-09-14, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
Prowler, There really isn't much difference between the crit frame and the road race frame until one needs to rail a tight turn at speed. The crit bike will simply show it's tail to a non crit geometry bike. There is a penalty for this however as IME there is almost no warning when limits have been exceeded and the bike then low sides. In addition to the steeper head tube angle the crit frame also had a slightly larger diameter down tube than the road race frame to make it stiffer. When integrated shifters became available the need to turn sharply became less important and a bike with road race geometry was quite worthy for crit racing. Probably the decline of parking lot crit races also played a part in the decline of crit geometry from the different manufacturers.

Your R600T is very similar to my '99 R1000T. With their level top tubes and 1" threaded headsets I suppose that they can be considered modern classics?

Brad

Didnt the pre-89 Criterium Series also have a slightly higher BB?
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Old 06-09-14, 09:38 AM
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Chuckk, I've had Cannondales with steel, aluminum and carbon fiber forks, I couldn't detect any difference worth remembering. Ride quality always depended on tires and tire pressure. My Fortezzas were uncomfortable at the required 130+ PSI while several versions of Continentals at ~100 PSI are very nice with no penalties. My son's SPX framed Olmo has some Hutchinson Equinox tires that are also very comfortable.

Brad
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Old 06-09-14, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Didnt the pre-89 Criterium Series also have a slightly higher BB?
I think they have the same BB height, 10.75", but I'll do some research later on.

Brad
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Old 06-09-14, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Check your math, Prowler. Pretty cool bike though, like the fade paint!
Aaaah, how about a head slap. You like 15 years old better (and me, an engineer and all. How mortifyin....)? I suppose that answers that question nicely. Sorry!
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Old 06-09-14, 10:47 AM
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OldsCOOL, They have the same BB height, but now I'm not too sure about the down tube's diameter on the '88 and older SR crit bikes. Can you measure your '88?

Thanks,
Brad
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Old 06-09-14, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
Chuckk, I've had Cannondales with steel, aluminum and carbon fiber forks, I couldn't detect any difference worth remembering. Ride quality always depended on tires and tire pressure. My Fortezzas were uncomfortable at the required 130+ PSI while several versions of Continentals at ~100 PSI are very nice with no penalties. My son's SPX framed Olmo has some Hutchinson Equinox tires that are also very comfortable.

Brad
130 psi
why ?
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Old 06-09-14, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
130 psi
why ?
At first this too was my question. The tires were rated 140 PSI max. and below ~130 PSI the tires looked and rode as if under inflated. They also were a bit under sized, more like 20 mm instead of 23 mm. At the time I weighed in the 200-205 range.

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Old 06-09-14, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuckk
What makes a Crit? I'd say the steep head angle 73-74 degrees, short wheelbase ~38", and high crank height ~27mm. Which matched most of the tight course U.S. racing back then.
Thanks Chuckk. I just measured my really new R600 (57cm ST c-c) and got:

HT angle = 73 deg
BB height = 27.5 cm
Wheel base = 110 cm
Trail = 6.5 cm
Chainstay = 41 cm.

Sort of what you mentioned but the wheelbase is too long. No worries for me - I prefer the longer wheelbase for the recreational riding I do. Thanks for the criteria. No one has objected.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. Bye.
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Old 06-09-14, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
OldsCOOL, They have the same BB height, but now I'm not too sure about the down tube's diameter on the '88 and older SR crit bikes. Can you measure your '88?

Thanks,
Brad
Dial calipers are showing 1.8" on my '88.
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Old 06-09-14, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
Thanks Chuckk. I just measured my really new R600 (57cm ST c-c) and got:

HT angle = 73 deg
BB height = 27.5 cm
Wheel base = 110 cm
Trail = 6.5 cm
Chainstay = 41 cm.

Sort of what you mentioned but the wheelbase is too long. No worries for me - I prefer the longer wheelbase for the recreational riding I do. Thanks for the criteria. No one has objected.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. Bye.
Your frame's headtube angle is only 1deg shallower than the '88 criterium (those are 74). Thanx for your input, I appreciate hearing from other Cannondale roadies.
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Old 06-09-14, 03:35 PM
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So here we go, starting in '86.

1986 - standard Road geometry


1987, upper model frames were Crit, lower Road:


1988&9, all the SR frames were Crit geometry.



1990, pretty evenly split:
400, 600, and 800 were Crit


300, 500,900 and 2000 were Road Race


1991 almost all models came as both SR and SC (crit) 3.0's.


and finally in 1992 there was only the C600 Crit left among several SR's as the 3.0's start phase out by the 2.8's.


1994, things get REALLY crazy - everything SUPER crit!?


Then in '95 no more 3.0, but 2.8 with or without headshock, TT and compact frames. The SR frames were back to road geometry.
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Old 06-09-14, 05:56 PM
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Thanx Chuckk!
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Old 06-09-14, 06:04 PM
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My '88 is quite different from the '94. Shorter wheelbase for one. Strange they had so many tweaks in so few years.
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Old 06-09-14, 07:59 PM
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Chuckk, I'm sure the '94 info is a typo/misprint.

OldsCOOL, Thanks! The down tube on my '86/'88 is 1.74". Once it's built I'll check the head tube's angle as it maybe a RR frame, which is fine by me, I do wish I knew why it took two years for the frame to come to market as an '88 SR500. A hint is that there are three signatures on the drop out. The down tube on the '89 is 2.0", BTW.

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Old 06-09-14, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
Chuckk, I'm sure the '94 info is a typo/misprint.

OldsCOOL, Thanks! The down tube on my '86/'88 is 1.74". Once it's built I'll check the head tube's angle as it maybe a RR frame, which is fine by me, I do wish I knew why it took two years for the frame to come to market as an '88 SR500. A hint is that there are three signatures on the drop out. The down tube on the '89 is 2.0", BTW.

Brad
The DTs on those '89 Crits must have been bizarre when they were unveiled back then. Not to mention the cantilevered dropouts.

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Old 06-28-14, 09:26 PM
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Here is a face to put with the threads about the bike. This was taken on the halfway of a 70mi ride. In the background is Little Traverse Bay of Lake Michigan and just outside of Petoskey.

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Old 06-29-14, 03:08 AM
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I hadn't noticed that you are running the lower spoke count of Nashbar's Vuelta wheels until now (mine are the HD version and have 36 spokes per wheel). Your version pop up a few times per year at just over $100, how do you like them? The reason I ask is I'm down 75lbs and pushing hard for a total 100 to reach 200lbs and curious if they will hold up under my new lighter "heft."

My heavy duty Vuelta wheels have been great. Due to a chain jump and deep cuts in 6 of the spokes I took the rear to my LBS recently. The mechanic (who has built several set of wheels for me) was very impressed.
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