What it really comes down to is the internal width of the rim. As long as you're just north of a 1:1 ratio, you should be fine in most instances.

This brings up a good point... with the A23's tubeless-ready design, we do NOT recommend using cloth rim tape or Veloplugs. The inner profile of the rim is shaped differently and it will make tire mounting much more difficult with the thicker cloth tape vs. two layers of our Velotape or something similar (like Stan's). I do have a few rolls of a synthetic fiber "cloth" tape that I use at home which has proven to be an excellent alternative. It's nearly as thin as our Velotape and incredibly strong... the only downside is I picked it up at a surplus store, and have no idea what its called or who makes it! Glad I got three large rolls...

Correct.

Interesting note about the plugs. Someone else brought this up a few weeks ago.

From personal experience, I found it very difficult to mount and seat Vittoria Rando 32's and Open Corsa 25's on my A23's with thin tape, and switched to red Velocity plugs. Much easier to mount tires with the plugs, which I thought was due to greater clearance in the rim valley.

Are these a problem waiting to happen?

Not going tubeless any time soon...

Thanks, Colonel - that's exactly the sort of first hand experience I was looking for!

Agreed; CR-18s are a great value, and are available in a variety of spoke drillings, diameters, and finishes. I run 35mm tires on CR-18s without problems.

My favorites are Dyad/Aeroheat - they are more round and flatter than the other rims I have built up, making it much easier to build the wheels. Currently running 38-622 tires (Trek T50 tandem). Have Aeroheat rims to build up for project bikes, and will be running tires in the 28 to 40mm range.

Others I have built:
Sun CR18 in ISO590 with 37mm tires; would switch to the Dyad/Aeroheat extrusion in a second if it was offered in 584 or 590 40H.
Alex Adventurer in ISO559 - Surly LHT comes with these rims; I would rank them slightly above the CR18. Using 40mm tires.
Alex R19 (single wall) in ISO630 (actually rebuilt cheapy wheels); surprisingly round and flat; using 28, 32 and 37mm tires.

All of the above, except the R19 are 18mm inside width, which is 19mm.

+1. [MENTION=184731]ColonelJLloyd[/MENTION], Interesting and informative posts. Not to mention some great pics. It's funny how you look at enough frames and you can sort of intuitively sense how a bike might handle. I look at some of your wheel builds and I just know they give a fantastic ride--plush yet not slow. I'm not in the market for new rims, but I'll consider your comments and comparisons if that changes.

(I still like cotton base tape, though. I guess it makes sense it would retain moisture, but how much water actually gets through the tire/sidewall gap, past the tube, and into the cloth base tape where it might lead to rust? Probably more water runs up the spoke due to centripetal force. If that's the case, wouldn't rubber base tape seal in the water into the eyelet versus a cloth tape acting as a wick to pull moisture out of the eyelet? I also haven't run across any instances where the rim tape inhibits a tire from mounting on the rim, but I tend to stick with box section rims (or tubulars) where that isn't as mush of an issue.)

I know it doesn't qualify as "available" but I really like Super Champion Mod 58 rims. They meet all your other requirements. Comparable weight, width and profile to the H Plus Son TB14. You can still find good deals on these if patient. I understand not trusting used rims, but personally, I don't rule out used rims across the board. Can make a lot of sense if the used rims don't have too much wear and are attached to wheels that are still true with even spoke tension. I find those rims, when evenly de-tensioned, can be rebuilt into sturdy wheels with different hub combinations. With random, un-built, used rims it's more of a crapshoot.

I'm not suggesting water really gets into the wheel, but certainly moisture in humid environments like mine. My comments come from removing Velox to replace with Stan's and finding the tape has rust on it at the eyelets. Stan's isn't going to prevent the moisture, but it's not going to absorb it either. The rust I've found is on the inside of the rim, not visible with a tire installed. Maybe Stan's is worse for this in the long run, but I doubt it.

Have you used Stan's? I just don't see how it's not superior in every way. It's even cheaper per wheel!

The Mod 58 rims are great, but I don't think you're correct about them being comparably wide to a TB14.

I like Golden Tickets:

[MENTION=184731]ColonelJLloyd[/MENTION] No, I haven't used Stan's. To be honest, I wasn't even aware of it. Another case of me being stuck in my old ways while the world passes on by. Most of my wheels are tubulars, and the LBS I usually frequent only offers Velox and the cheap rubber rim strips. I usually go with Velox cloth for my keepers and the inexpensive rubber rim strips for the occasional flip bike. You may be right about the moisture. I was sort of thinking out loud.

Re Mod 58s, I'm trusting Velobase rather than going downstairs and getting out my calipers, but they list the Mod 58 width as 22.8mm versus 23mm for the advertised width of the TB14.

Grand Bois rims anyone?

Interesting discussion since I'm tooling up for a couple bike's worth of wheelbuilding soon. The proposed specs are what I want, also.

Has anyone tried the Soma Weymouth? Weymouth Rim (700c & 650b) | SOMA Fabrications

And to those of you who have tried several, what's the justification for apparently identical rims: Sun CR-18, Velocity NoBS, Soma Weymouth; having a 2:1 price differential?

"Apparently identical" could mean a lot, but if they are identical, it would seem going with the lowest price would make sense.

However, in an overall sense, long-term, the price per rim is simply part of the build. The most recent builds I've been involved with were NOS 6500 hubs laced to DTSwiss 585's and 415's, respectively. The price of the rims could have varied from $50/each to $80/each. In the overall build price, of both the wheelset and the bike, the extra $$ makes little or no difference down the road. We went with the preferred rims and simply paid what was necessary. One set was built by a bike shop, the other by REI and BF's Otto Rax. Both sets are amazing, and 2000 miles from now, whether a rim was $13, or $33, or $83, it really won't matter.

Wheels are what you ride on.

Hmm. Maybe so. I've only had one pair come through my hands, but I don't remember them being that wide (at least comparing inside width).

Yeah... they're not precisely the same rim except for different labels. What I mean is that the dimensions, weights, and extrusions appear very similar among those three, but the CR-18's are about $30 while the NoBS and the Weymouth are nearly $60 each. Since I build my own wheels (I have for 33 years), the extra cost of the rim is significant. What am I missing?

I want to move forward, but I've had a run of bad luck with wheels lately. A pair of Velo Orange Raid rims were nice at first, but they started making a noise that I believe was loose eyelets. I couldn't make this go away after rebuilding and retensioning them repeatedly, so I exchanged them for Velocity Synergy rims. (Universal Cycles worked with me to get this done.) One of the Synergy rims is now hanging in the garage with splits at the spoke holes. Grrr...

Zipp makes a nice, thin, polycloth rim strip.

So where does one by spokes and nipples?

Literally not touching that one.....

The last set of spokes I bought, box of 72, came on line from Jensen, I think, for $84 and they also had nipples for $12.
LBS charges $2/spoke for straight pulls, which they get from J&B, and nipples are free. That's $128 for 32/32

My next build will require straight pull 280's, which will again be $84-$86/box of 72, and I'll only need 52. Oh, well, spares.

Interesting comments about rim tape. On one bike with clinchers, I don't need them thanks to the Tufo tubular clincher. These tires are becoming my fave's. Thinking of swapping out for some other rides as well. Notice how the complete tire is elevated off the inner rim when inflated.



edit: No glue - no mess. Impressive low rolling resistance. Beautiful ride but my confidence isn't fully up in the wet. Low cost and the longevity is looking good. Downside - no way to repair. Could fill with sealant or carry a foldable and tube.

Dan's comp .60 with aluminum nipples Sapim 14/15/14, cut to length .

CR-18 for wider tires. Strong, but quality is only average.

Velocity Aero or Weinmann DP18 for narrower tires. These are cheap, strong, and relatively modern looking.

+1 Been riding them for some time, and will continue to do so.

Which Tufo tubular clincher do you ride?

C S33 Pro (2 sets) and a set of C Jet Specials on a TT/Tri-bike. I've not had to repair one yet. Generally, if you see the "C" designation, that's the clincher version. For years, they were near $100 each via the Czech Republic, but in the last couple of years, that's changed.

I carry a spare just like a tubular, but it (would be) a lot quicker to change on the side of the road. Haven't had that opportunity yet. The only one that I had that leaked was due to a loose valve core. The removable core is nice, because Tufo also sells the really nice extensions that use the removable core. My other extensions used to leak all the time, overnight about 60psi.