Bike Forums - Concorde frame identification

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Concorde frame identification

I have strong suspicions this is a repaint. Concordes of this era had really wild paint jobs, with all kinds of shading/netting effects, with the model name on the top tube just behind the head tube. That said, all the details are right for a concorde of this era (brake bridge, that little flag on the top tube, chroming, fork engravings). I'd say a prelude or aquilla, but can't be too sure. The main difference between these models was the tubing, and since the original tubing sticker has been replaced with a generic columbus one, it's hard to tell from pictures alone.

My instinct would say concorde prelude made with columbus sl, since the frame details are the same on my concorde prelude, and the 27.2 seat post disqualifies it for being columbus aelle.

Thanks, I'll weigh frame and fork when return home, aelle frame should be ~2.4 kg and sl ~1.9 kg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Italuminium (Post 17126984)

+1 Nearly all of the Concordes I have seen of this era had two tone faded blended paint jobs in somewhat wild Miami vice colors. The orange paint looks great except for the pinstriping tansition paint to chrome on the rear, which gives away it is likely arepaint this is the hardest part of repaint for a shop to do well. The frame looks great nothing to doubt it's correct other than the paint most likely SL tubing.

Interesting, there's similarities between modern ciocc and my frame: geometry (steep head angle), solid paint scheme.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=406311
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=406312

Now I also think that my frame was repainted - that orange paint inside seat tube. I didn't include this foto in 1st post. Seems that it will be safer to clean paint and then repaint again, to see actual frame condition, maybe some rust.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=406319

It's a nice frame, that's for sure. The current colour is quite attractive, what colour would you repaint it?

The same orange colour, I like it too. And paint quailty is good. Just want to check frame condition.

Identifying a Concorde frame...

Here's a link from a few years back with a lot of information about Concordes:

PDM and Concorde frames

One poster's claim:

"...all the team issue frames for the PDM squad were SLX on the early editions 86-87 eventually all ending up as TSX on the squadra model of frame. These frames were produced mainly by Ciocc this can be traced via the italian flag bedded into the steel at rear of the top tube."

From another poster:

"I have the 1992 Concorde catalogue here.
From top to bottom the order is:
Carbonne TVT - Bonded carbon
Squadra - TSX
Aquila - SLX
Prelude - SL
EL35 - EL
MAX - MAX
Classic - Aelle
Colombo - Aelle
Mistral - Aelle
Astore - Cromor

All frames could be specified with any paint scheme."

This is a great link showing Concorde frames... Note the solid color models.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/qualit...7633242790398/

Now, the rest of the story...

A lot of Concorde frames were made by Roberto Billato a little known Italian company that specialized in contract built frames including most of the Lemond Z Team frames.

Billato Company History (translated to English by Italians):

"August 1978 – July 2007 (29 years) Padua Italy

Since 1954 Meneghello & Billato, as a lot of small bicycle frames factories in Padua area, was producing steel brazed frames for important Italian brands as Legnano-Coppi-Vicini-Boeris- Piave-Spezzotto- Pinarello-Scapin. I jointed my family business in 1978 and I learned the art of frame building and how to develop new road racing frames from the most experienced workers of the factory and from my father.

Soon I started to expand our business to the foreign markets to increase the production. In 1979 a Belgian company commissioned us the production of a cyclocross model and later some new road frames with Columbus tubing. On that year Mr. Gianni Giacomini became world champion with a Spezzotto bike with a custom frame made on my own. In 1981 I started to produce MTB frames with Reynolds tubing for a Californian frame builder Ted Kirkbride , owner of Cicli Masi Inc, and later I extended the production to the road brand for several years.

At the same time the Belgian company was bought by a big group in NL [the Netherlands] and I started to produce the complete CONCORDE range of frames for them, including their professional team PDM. Some of the PDM riders rode with those custom made bikes and won the most important races in 7 years ( Tour de France - Paris-roubaix- world cup- etc etc).

Moreover, I was doing the same with other important brands, like: Greg leMond and Look Cycle (with its teams Credit Agricole-Kelme-Big Mat Aubier- etc). I also collaborated with many other international brands like Stevens from Germany, Cicli Fondriest (and Simoni won a Giro D' Italia with one of my custom frames) , Casa Masferrer in Spain, Cinelli , Tommaso USA, Marin MTB USA , Diamond Back , Rossin, Pearl Bikes DE, Dynatek, and a lot of other professional brands in Italy , EU and USA."

I question the quote that Coicc built the PDM Concorde frames. Reasons being, there was so much inbreeding in the Italian bike industry, it's hard to tell who did what. Don't get me started on Colnago and Masi!

The now defunct Ten Speed Drive Imports (TSDI) that was located in Florida brought in a lot of bare Italian built frames and painted them here in the US. Some of the work was farmed out to painters in Southern California. TSDI even imported Coicc frames.

A lot of top end Italian cycling products were shipped to the USSR so the orange paint may be original.

A brace of Billato built Z Team Lemonds:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=406346

verktyg

Chas.

Thanks a lot for this interesting thread on concorde's, gallery of beautiful bike pictures, and Billato history. Since I bought this frame from guy in California via e-bay, destiny of italian frames in USA is especially interesting. Previous owner think that frame was not repainted and dates after 2002:

" I really don't know its history (it is too small for me, so I bought it and transferred the components onto a frame that is my size.). It had a Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed group when I purchased it - I'm guessing that it was original to the frame, so it would need to have been produced in 2002 or newer. I don't think it was repainted - the chrome and threads looked so nice and clean. Sometimes, when I see a bike that has been repainted, there is pitting on the chrome or dirt in the bottom bracket or other signs of heavy use - it just looks like this Concorde was well-treated and not ridden very much. "

There were Concorde's painted with one solid color at least in 1993, see page from that year catalog attached. Also their track model Astore Pista from above menthioned flickr gallery. So anything possible.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=406437

To me it looks almost identical to my Astore. I'm trying to figure out the year of this frame. The serial numbers between yours and mine are very close. Anyone have an idea of the year of my frame?

Thanks,

SPhttp://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=419395 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=419396 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=419397 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=419398 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=419399

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvm (Post 17128173)

Thanks, I'll weigh frame and fork when return home, aelle frame should be ~2.4 kg and sl ~1.9 kg.

Those weights are for the tubing only, not the whole frame. When you ad in the the lugs, BB shell, fork crown, dropouts and braze-ons the weight increases by at least a pound.

verktyg :50:

Chas.

Yes, SkyPierre, our frames are very similar, except that mine is without brazed-on mount for front derailleur. Does your frame have "cromor" or something engraved on the bottom bracket? Astore was made from cromor steel. Mine has "53 SL". 53 is frame size. It's hard to say about year - from only two Concorde catalogs, 1989 and 1993, that are available in internet, one can see that your Astore is closer to 1993 pictures, because of internal rear brake cable routing and two places for bottle mount. Painting schemes are close, but not identical.

Another tip from man I bought my frame - It was with Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed groupset, so he dates my frame 2002 or newer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvm (Post 17337960)

Another tip from man I bought my frame - It was with Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed groupset, so he dates my frame 2002 or newer.

By then, concorde was trading in Alu and Carbon frames, not like these. Again, a 2002 repaint with an updated gruppo seems likely.

Ah yes, I didn't notice the braze on. Good eye. Just the SN is engraved on the bottom bracket. There is a sticker that says its CROMOR tubing. I'm building it up with 10spd mostly Dura Ace and some Ultegra. I'll post pics once complete. Thanks for the info,

SP

Quote:

Again, a 2002 repaint with an updated gruppo seems likely.

Thanks, Italuminium, I agree.

Finally my bicycle is finished.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427976

Campagnolo Veloce 10 sp groupset, Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels, Brooks B17 saddle with Ritchey Classic seatpost, Deda Piega handlebar with Cinelli A1 stem.

Nice builds, guys!

Glad to hear that the orange paint didn't need to be stripped off, whew!

I used my "PDM" Concorde as trade-bait for my "grail" Richard Moon (local builder) bike, but it was much better-sized for Joe E and he still has it (and puts fierce riding miles on it!).

I'm a very big fan of Bilato-built frames btw, and of the other big contract-builders like Mondonico, Biemmezeta, etc.

I'm wishing you both good riding weather!

Thanks guys, and good rides to you! SkyPierre, beautiful bicycle, saddle colors fit nicely to frame's.