Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Concorde frame identification

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Concorde frame identification

Old 09-13-14, 02:54 AM
  #1  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Concorde frame identification

Hello! Can somebody identify this Concorde steel frame, that i bought on e-bay? Good condition, but no model info on frame. Seller was from USA.

53 SL stamped in bottom bracket
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Steerer diameter: 1"
Bottom Bracket: Italian
Rear axle spacing: 130mm
Fork axle: 100mm

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
7.jpg (88.5 KB, 548 views)
File Type: jpg
5.jpg (92.2 KB, 519 views)
File Type: jpg
4.jpg (92.7 KB, 516 views)
File Type: jpg
6.jpg (93.3 KB, 508 views)
File Type: jpg
8.jpg (101.5 KB, 502 views)
File Type: jpg
2.jpg (87.0 KB, 508 views)
File Type: jpg
3.jpg (94.8 KB, 497 views)
File Type: jpg
1.jpg (100.0 KB, 536 views)
File Type: jpg
0.jpg (101.4 KB, 526 views)

Last edited by mvm; 09-13-14 at 02:58 AM. Reason: added "steel" to frame
mvm is offline  
Old 09-13-14, 03:03 PM
  #2  
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,556

Bikes: blue ones.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
I have strong suspicions this is a repaint. Concordes of this era had really wild paint jobs, with all kinds of shading/netting effects, with the model name on the top tube just behind the head tube. That said, all the details are right for a concorde of this era (brake bridge, that little flag on the top tube, chroming, fork engravings). I'd say a prelude or aquilla, but can't be too sure. The main difference between these models was the tubing, and since the original tubing sticker has been replaced with a generic columbus one, it's hard to tell from pictures alone.

My instinct would say concorde prelude made with columbus sl, since the frame details are the same on my concorde prelude, and the 27.2 seat post disqualifies it for being columbus aelle.
Italuminium is offline  
Old 09-14-14, 12:59 AM
  #3  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks, I'll weigh frame and fork when return home, aelle frame should be ~2.4 kg and sl ~1.9 kg.
mvm is offline  
Old 09-14-14, 01:14 AM
  #4  
zukahn1
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 8,647

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 586 Post(s)
Liked 658 Times in 321 Posts
Originally Posted by Italuminium View Post
I have strong suspicions this is a repaint. Concordes of this era had really wild paint jobs, with all kinds of shading/netting effects, with the model name on the top tube just behind the head tube. That said, all the details are right for a concorde of this era (brake bridge, that little flag on the top tube, chroming, fork engravings). I'd say a prelude or aquilla, but can't be too sure. The main difference between these models was the tubing, and since the original tubing sticker has been replaced with a generic columbus one, it's hard to tell from pictures alone.

My instinct would say concorde prelude made with columbus sl, since the frame details are the same on my concorde prelude, and the 27.2 seat post disqualifies it for being columbus aelle.
+1 Nearly all of the Concordes I have seen of this era had two tone faded blended paint jobs in somewhat wild Miami vice colors. The orange paint looks great except for the pinstriping tansition paint to chrome on the rear, which gives away it is likely arepaint this is the hardest part of repaint for a shop to do well. The frame looks great nothing to doubt it's correct other than the paint most likely SL tubing.

Last edited by zukahn1; 09-14-14 at 01:28 AM.
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 09-15-14, 12:33 AM
  #5  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Interesting, there's similarities between modern ciocc and my frame: geometry (steep head angle), solid paint scheme.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg
ciocc.jpg (54.6 KB, 502 views)
File Type: jpg
1.jpg (90.9 KB, 492 views)
mvm is offline  
Old 09-15-14, 01:36 AM
  #6  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Now I also think that my frame was repainted - that orange paint inside seat tube. I didn't include this foto in 1st post. Seems that it will be safer to clean paint and then repaint again, to see actual frame condition, maybe some rust.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
0.jpg (46.3 KB, 494 views)
mvm is offline  
Old 09-15-14, 03:04 AM
  #7  
Oldpeddaller
Senior Member
 
Oldpeddaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maidstone, Kent, England
Posts: 2,636

Bikes: 1970 Holdsworth Mistral, Vitus 979, Colnago Primavera, Corratec Hydracarbon, Massi MegaTeam, 1935 Claud Butler Super Velo, Carrera Virtuoso, Viner, 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee, 1954 Holdsworth Typhoon, 1966 Claud Butler Olympic Road, 1982 Claud

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
It's a nice frame, that's for sure. The current colour is quite attractive, what colour would you repaint it?
Oldpeddaller is offline  
Old 09-15-14, 04:01 AM
  #8  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The same orange colour, I like it too. And paint quailty is good. Just want to check frame condition.
mvm is offline  
Old 09-15-14, 04:03 AM
  #9  
Oldpeddaller
Senior Member
 
Oldpeddaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maidstone, Kent, England
Posts: 2,636

Bikes: 1970 Holdsworth Mistral, Vitus 979, Colnago Primavera, Corratec Hydracarbon, Massi MegaTeam, 1935 Claud Butler Super Velo, Carrera Virtuoso, Viner, 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee, 1954 Holdsworth Typhoon, 1966 Claud Butler Olympic Road, 1982 Claud

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Good choice
Oldpeddaller is offline  
Old 09-15-14, 05:58 AM
  #10  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,941

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times in 579 Posts
Identifying a Concorde frame...

Here's a link from a few years back with a lot of information about Concordes:

PDM and Concorde frames

One poster's claim:

"...all the team issue frames for the PDM squad were SLX on the early editions 86-87 eventually all ending up as TSX on the squadra model of frame. These frames were produced mainly by Ciocc this can be traced via the italian flag bedded into the steel at rear of the top tube."

From another poster:

"I have the 1992 Concorde catalogue here.
From top to bottom the order is:
Carbonne TVT - Bonded carbon
Squadra - TSX
Aquila - SLX
Prelude - SL
EL35 - EL
MAX - MAX
Classic - Aelle
Colombo - Aelle
Mistral - Aelle
Astore - Cromor

All frames could be specified with any paint scheme."


This is a great link showing Concorde frames... Note the solid color models.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/qualit...7633242790398/


Now, the rest of the story...

A lot of Concorde frames were made by Roberto Billato a little known Italian company that specialized in contract built frames including most of the Lemond Z Team frames.

Billato Company History (translated to English by Italians):


"August 1978 July 2007 (29 years) Padua Italy

Since 1954 Meneghello & Billato, as a lot of small bicycle frames factories in Padua area, was producing steel brazed frames for important Italian brands as Legnano-Coppi-Vicini-Boeris- Piave-Spezzotto- Pinarello-Scapin. I jointed my family business in 1978 and I learned the art of frame building and how to develop new road racing frames from the most experienced workers of the factory and from my father.

Soon I started to expand our business to the foreign markets to increase the production. In 1979 a Belgian company commissioned us the production of a cyclocross model and later some new road frames with Columbus tubing. On that year Mr. Gianni Giacomini became world champion with a Spezzotto bike with a custom frame made on my own. In 1981 I started to produce MTB frames with Reynolds tubing for a Californian frame builder Ted Kirkbride , owner of Cicli Masi Inc, and later I extended the production to the road brand for several years.

At the same time the Belgian company was bought by a big group in NL [the Netherlands] and I started to produce the complete CONCORDE range of frames for them, including their professional team PDM. Some of the PDM riders rode with those custom made bikes and won the most important races in 7 years ( Tour de France - Paris-roubaix- world cup- etc etc).

Moreover, I was doing the same with other important brands, like: Greg leMond and Look Cycle (with its teams Credit Agricole-Kelme-Big Mat Aubier- etc). I also collaborated with many other international brands like Stevens from Germany, Cicli Fondriest (and Simoni won a Giro D' Italia with one of my custom frames) , Casa Masferrer in Spain, Cinelli , Tommaso USA, Marin MTB USA , Diamond Back , Rossin, Pearl Bikes DE, Dynatek, and a lot of other professional brands in Italy , EU and USA."


I question the quote that Coicc built the PDM Concorde frames. Reasons being, there was so much inbreeding in the Italian bike industry, it's hard to tell who did what. Don't get me started on Colnago and Masi!

The now defunct Ten Speed Drive Imports (TSDI) that was located in Florida brought in a lot of bare Italian built frames and painted them here in the US. Some of the work was farmed out to painters in Southern California. TSDI even imported Coicc frames.

A lot of top end Italian cycling products were shipped to the USSR so the orange paint may be original.

A brace of Billato built Z Team Lemonds:



verktyg

Chas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
LedmondTeamZ0002b.jpg (87.9 KB, 487 views)
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)


Last edited by verktyg; 09-15-14 at 06:04 AM.
verktyg is offline  
Old 09-15-14, 01:21 PM
  #11  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks a lot for this interesting thread on concorde's, gallery of beautiful bike pictures, and Billato history. Since I bought this frame from guy in California via e-bay, destiny of italian frames in USA is especially interesting. Previous owner think that frame was not repainted and dates after 2002:


" I really don't know its history (it is too small for me, so I bought it and transferred the components onto a frame that is my size.). It had a Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed group when I purchased it - I'm guessing that it was original to the frame, so it would need to have been produced in 2002 or newer. I don't think it was repainted - the chrome and threads looked so nice and clean. Sometimes, when I see a bike that has been repainted, there is pitting on the chrome or dirt in the bottom bracket or other signs of heavy use - it just looks like this Concorde was well-treated and not ridden very much. "


There were Concorde's painted with one solid color at least in 1993, see page from that year catalog attached. Also their track model Astore Pista from above menthioned flickr gallery. So anything possible.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
colors.jpg (91.2 KB, 481 views)
mvm is offline  
Old 11-23-14, 09:37 PM
  #12  
SkyPierre
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 11

Bikes: 1993 Colnago Master Olympic Decor 1988 Bianchi Squadra, 1992 Concorde Astore, 2013 LaPierre Xelius FDJ

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
To me it looks almost identical to my Astore. I'm trying to figure out the year of this frame. The serial numbers between yours and mine are very close. Anyone have an idea of the year of my frame?

Thanks,

SP
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
photo 5.jpg (95.7 KB, 490 views)
File Type: jpg
$_20-2.JPG (56.4 KB, 487 views)
File Type: jpg
$_20-6.JPG (58.1 KB, 471 views)
File Type: jpg
$_20-7.JPG (45.2 KB, 473 views)
File Type: jpg
photo 4.jpg (97.0 KB, 470 views)
SkyPierre is offline  
Old 11-25-14, 03:25 AM
  #13  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,941

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times in 579 Posts
Originally Posted by mvm View Post
Thanks, I'll weigh frame and fork when return home, aelle frame should be ~2.4 kg and sl ~1.9 kg.
Those weights are for the tubing only, not the whole frame. When you ad in the the lugs, BB shell, fork crown, dropouts and braze-ons the weight increases by at least a pound.

verktyg

Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Old 11-25-14, 05:14 AM
  #14  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes, SkyPierre, our frames are very similar, except that mine is without brazed-on mount for front derailleur. Does your frame have "cromor" or something engraved on the bottom bracket? Astore was made from cromor steel. Mine has "53 SL". 53 is frame size. It's hard to say about year - from only two Concorde catalogs, 1989 and 1993, that are available in internet, one can see that your Astore is closer to 1993 pictures, because of internal rear brake cable routing and two places for bottle mount. Painting schemes are close, but not identical.
mvm is offline  
Old 11-25-14, 07:17 AM
  #15  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Another tip from man I bought my frame - It was with Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed groupset, so he dates my frame 2002 or newer.
mvm is offline  
Old 11-25-14, 07:40 AM
  #16  
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,556

Bikes: blue ones.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by mvm View Post
Another tip from man I bought my frame - It was with Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed groupset, so he dates my frame 2002 or newer.
By then, concorde was trading in Alu and Carbon frames, not like these. Again, a 2002 repaint with an updated gruppo seems likely.
Italuminium is offline  
Old 11-25-14, 11:06 AM
  #17  
SkyPierre
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 11

Bikes: 1993 Colnago Master Olympic Decor 1988 Bianchi Squadra, 1992 Concorde Astore, 2013 LaPierre Xelius FDJ

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ah yes, I didn't notice the braze on. Good eye. Just the SN is engraved on the bottom bracket. There is a sticker that says its CROMOR tubing. I'm building it up with 10spd mostly Dura Ace and some Ultegra. I'll post pics once complete. Thanks for the info,

SP
SkyPierre is offline  
Old 11-25-14, 11:50 AM
  #18  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Again, a 2002 repaint with an updated gruppo seems likely.


Thanks, Italuminium, I agree.

Last edited by mvm; 11-25-14 at 11:51 AM. Reason: add quote
mvm is offline  
Old 01-12-15, 04:50 AM
  #19  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Finally my bicycle is finished.



Campagnolo Veloce 10 sp groupset, Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels, Brooks B17 saddle with Ritchey Classic seatpost, Deda Piega handlebar with Cinelli A1 stem.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
2015-01-12-189.jpg (99.4 KB, 483 views)
mvm is offline  
Old 01-19-15, 10:30 AM
  #20  
SkyPierre
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 11

Bikes: 1993 Colnago Master Olympic Decor 1988 Bianchi Squadra, 1992 Concorde Astore, 2013 LaPierre Xelius FDJ

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Beautiful Bike my friend. I have also finished up my Astore.
Many safe rides.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
photo 1-2.jpg (103.0 KB, 479 views)
File Type: jpg
photo 2-2.jpg (93.1 KB, 467 views)
File Type: jpg
photo 3-2.jpg (98.2 KB, 473 views)
File Type: jpg
photo 4-2.jpg (98.1 KB, 468 views)
File Type: jpg
photo 5.jpg (97.7 KB, 471 views)
SkyPierre is offline  
Old 01-19-15, 11:07 AM
  #21  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 8,395

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1220 Post(s)
Liked 716 Times in 505 Posts
Nice builds, guys!

Glad to hear that the orange paint didn't need to be stripped off, whew!

I used my "PDM" Concorde as trade-bait for my "grail" Richard Moon (local builder) bike, but it was much better-sized for Joe E and he still has it (and puts fierce riding miles on it!).

I'm a very big fan of Bilato-built frames btw, and of the other big contract-builders like Mondonico, Biemmezeta, etc.


I'm wishing you both good riding weather!
dddd is offline  
Old 01-24-15, 11:41 AM
  #22  
mvm
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 13

Bikes: 1965 ChVZ Start-schosse, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, Concorde Prelude(?)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys, and good rides to you! SkyPierre, beautiful bicycle, saddle colors fit nicely to frame's.

Last edited by mvm; 01-24-15 at 11:42 AM. Reason: spelling
mvm is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
GM01
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
3
05-16-16 12:58 PM
yalin
Classic & Vintage
3
08-06-14 04:49 AM
mkeaus
Classic & Vintage
6
01-07-13 08:53 PM
revart
Classic & Vintage
14
08-22-12 10:59 AM
mattparker
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
6
02-16-12 03:23 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.