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Hoping to ID an Italian frame

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Hoping to ID an Italian frame

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Old 10-27-14 | 02:56 PM
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I'm seeing the lower letters as SAGAGNAC or SAGAGNAG_.

If it's the former, that sounds French to me. I don't speak French, but Sa seems to be a possessive, like "from" or "of", and there are two Gagnacs in France - Gagnac-sur-Cere and Gagnac-sur-Garonne, both in the Pyrenees. There are Wikipedia pages about them but they're in French, not that they'd probably help anyway.

If it's the latter, which seems kind of likely based on letter spacing, then that sounds Italian. (All Italian words end in vowels.) There is a Gagnago in Italy, in the mountains northwest of Milan. I don't actually speak Italian either, but according to the interwebs SA is an Italian verb having something to do with "to know", but it looks like it's also used frequently as an acronym with company names or geographic districts. Those first two letters do look kind of different, so that seems like a good possibility.
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Old 10-29-14 | 08:39 PM
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Recently found this on the interawebz. A list of about 1000 bike manufacturers out of Italy. A little time and the partial names, you may get lucky.

Merkenlijst - Italiaanse Racefietsen
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Old 10-30-14 | 08:57 PM
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"SA" can be an abbreviation for "Societa Autonomia"; which is essentially "Incorporated" in Italian. I see " __RES____ " on the upper portion of the transfer.
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Old 11-01-14 | 02:46 AM
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I still can't crack the code. A good list at this link Forum Tonton Vélo ? Afficher le sujet - Liste des marques de vélos anciens... pour le WIKI also didn't shed any further light.

I still think likely as follows
1. A 70mm wide BB. So likely anItalianframe.
2. The brand name. Based on the spacing likely 5 or 6 letters. Possibly _ R E _ P _. As R & E are capital letters then likely all capital letters. Could the third letter be a capital D or J? And the fourth a P?
3. The lower word. Town of origin? Based on the spacing again likely 9 or 10 letters. Possibly S A _ _ _ N A C _ _. Could the third letter be a capital B or D? Fourth letter unsure. Fifth maybe a capital G or C?
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Old 11-01-14 | 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc F
Thank you for your thoughts and your lateral thinking. They are appreciated. As long as I don't have a positive ID then it is of course possible that it isn't Italian. The frame didi originally come out of Italy but that doesn't make it Italian. I tried to load higher resolution images but the system refused. I posted because I was unable to decipher and thought that there was an off chance someone might recognise the name. Thanks again.
Marc, please try to sort out the photo issue. This group (like the CR group) are usually amazing at teasing out relevant details from good and detailed pictures, even of head decals as bad as yours. Also, we need to see that seat lug bolt. A lot of old stuff looked homemade though it was the hand of a craftsman. Early Italian racing bikes were often thought of as "tools for racing," not blingy works of visual art. It might be workmanlike, but the state of the art for the day and the locale.

We like to do this, you are not in the least an intrusion.
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Old 11-01-14 | 08:51 AM
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I don't know why so much effort is being put into the identification of this frame, when the owner is not providing batter photos?
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Old 11-01-14 | 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
We like to do this, you are not in the least an intrusion.
+1

I'd like to see a photo of the whole headbadge We've only seen the bottom with the letters. Additional photos would be useful, such as the seat cluster, headtube lugs, and dropouts --- particularly the joins. These will give some indication of year and skill of the frame maker.
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Old 11-01-14 | 06:19 PM
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Apologies for the delay in better resolution photos. Just time poor. I have loaded some photos into Flickr although it looks to me like you need to be able to sign in and search via "people". My screen name is "marc 128". Let me know if unable to locate. Hope these images provide greater clarity. I tried to get a number of views and angles of the head badge although it was a little overcast at the time.
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Old 03-04-15 | 06:26 PM
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Dream Cycles out of St Etienne???

TELAIO BICI EPOCA CORSA VINTAGE BICYCLE FRAME EROICA DREAM SIMPLEX REGINA 1930 | eBay




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