In the car world, one might choose to make an SS replica, for example. So, one would start with an non-SS El-Camino or Camaro, and then add a bigger engine, some decals, and all the bells and whistles that a true SS would have originally had. Practically speaking, with all the spare parts available, one could make a car that was indistinguishable from a true SS with the exception of the VIN number.

However, part of "Hot Rodding" is embellishing the original, and there is a lot one can do to embellish a 40+ yr old car. So, one might not only make an SS replica, but make it better than new.

In the bike world, that may be a bit more difficult to do. One could repaint a lesser bike to look like a more expensive model, but in many cases, the frames are made with different materials... so one gets a look-alike.

Now, I have been eye-balling a 2011 Specialized Tricross on Craigslist.

There are 3 models:
Tricross (basic) 8s Shimano 2300
Tricross sport Tiagra 9s
Tricross comp 105 10s

As far as I can tell, the frames are identical (maybe), but they have subtly different paint jobs.

An option, of course, would be to buy the basic 8s version, and upgrade it to be functionally equivalent to the "comp" level. Perhaps even better now that 11s is available.

So, in a sense, one would have a "replica", in a sense, it would just be an upgraded bike. I wouldn't care about the difference.

In the classic world, one can start with a lousy frame. Upgrade components, and perhaps the paint, but end up with a bike with nice components and a lousy frame.

I just scored a 73 raleigh pro frame, and I think I am going to give it some TI Raleigh livery. It won't have sbdu serial # but so what. It needs a respray and this will be more fun!
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=251923900894

Me! as fraudulent as it may be!

Back in the Cretaceous era when I was young, stupid and racing, all I could afford was a Suzuki, when what I really wanted was a Ducati Diana Mk III — even though the Suzuki was faster on the local 1.8 mile mountain circuit. I still want a 'Duck' — but an armful full of spare parts would still be worth more than my entire Yamaha when it was new!

Well ... I guess not in this lifetime, but I can still dream the dream along with the 1959 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint I've craved for 45 years!

I think he's referring to a less literal, more euphamistic meaning of "pitching a tent."

:D

A couple weeks ago, I saw a Mercury Grand Marquis painted to look like the Dukes' General Lee. I have seen other General Lee cars, but, at least they were Mopars, even if not the correct model and year.

I have seen a few street cars painted to resemble NASCAR race cars, including a 1980s Ford Fiesta with Bill Elliot's paint scheme. To each his own, I guess.

To each his own? The Brits are more hypercritical of such BS pretension, and I cannot find fault with it. In a word — WANKER! In the UK, even your church-going maiden aunt knows what that means!

Now that would make me laugh. A Fiesta at least is a tribute to me, but all Nascar cars are now just tributes to the vehicles they pretend to be. I liked how it was in the 70's and earlier, where stock cars were actually constructed from a production body in white.
Long ago there was a TV documentrary on the Petty's showing them constructing a '71 or '72 Plymouth, terrific, I even bought the plastic model car kit and built it up.

So, does it count when a manufacturer makes a "replica" of their own cars.

For example the Capri might be considered a Mustang replica.
The Opal GT might be considered a Vette replica
The New Fiat 500 might be considered a replica of the old "new Fiat 500".

That's right, the poster actually believes he could afford a 800K ( low end) car, while a replica runs about 90k still a nice respectable piece of change, never get that for a replica bike...

Wrong on 3 counts, not your expertise

Before you do that, check out the 60's classic Carlton on the forum. Can't remember whose it is, but it's a beauty.

Maybe it could work if the frame was used for a few different models? My Raleigh Record shared the same frame as the Sprite, if I remember.

I was thinking about replica bikes today.
A Masi or Colnago, could be repainted as a team bike along the lines of what Eddy rode, say the Masi with Faema colors and graphics, or a plain Super as an Eddy Merckx branded bike in Orange. There are a few other variations on what the teams rode and production bikes that had equal looking metalwork.
The prior mentioned Speedplay Masi Special, where he has an original and its replicant.
The others would be a Masi Special Pista in chrome plate by Brian Baylis, better than the original from what it was based.
I think he did a Colnago too.
The last would be the Joe Skrivan built Confente tribute, pretty close, but not perfect. I could not find an active website for him yesterday. It is identified on the BB shell as a replica, Brian's on the fork crown for the Masi.
Making an identifying set of marks is appropriate.
It does bring up what about items like race cars where in a race wreck, not much is left to repair. But they do.

As someone who owns a type of car that gets faked so often there's a name for it (google "Alger"), I deplore the concept if it gets sold as the real thing -- or ever gets out on the market where it could be. If you do one just for fun, and keep it yourself, no harm no fowl.

"Tribute bike"?

Or vice-versa?

The question is really "What is being "restored"? Is it a Shelby being "restored", or is it what the Shelby represents (its cultural significance)?
Museum conservators basically take the position that the object only represents the culture of the time and it is the culture being "restored" through that object.

This happens all the time with "vintage" bikes. When someone goes OCD with "Period Correct" they are trying to maintain the congruity of the cultural significance of the object. If you put Ergos on a '65 Cinelli (which was the bees knees of it's time), it somehow doesn't work. All you have done is put Ergos on an old bike. But if you put repro decals and a repro headbadge on a '65, you reproduce the cultural significance of a '65 Cinelli. Without them you just have a Cinelli bike.

If it is necessary to start with a '68 Tang and then "restore" it to a Shelby in order to "restore" the cultural significance of a Shelby, then that's O.K. It works. But, it is not a Shelby. As soon as it is promoted as one, it is a fraud. The experience of creating the Shelby is the value, not the end result.

r

I agree with your thesis entirely. Moreover, I think it is something that is not a trivial observation on this forum.

I have some bicycles that when I am casually talking to the uninitiated I refer to as "restored". But they are absolutely not. I do not have ergos on a 70's steel racing frame — not even a 10 speed free-hub conversion — but I would never claim them to be "restored". The transmission may be a mix of Shimano 600, Ultegra and Dura Ace — all related in some way, but no way something that would have appeared on the 40 year old frame when it appeared in some shop window, or ordered by an athlete.

This does not mean that these machines mean any less to me personally. And it does not mean that I demean "restorations". If I had the money and time, I'd hunt the land and spend the money to restore my 'Simplon' or my 'Gazelle' to exactly how it would have appeared back in the day. But older group mixes, as well as new Nitto, MKS, Shimano, Tange and other modern parts are affordable, easy to find, and they do not look silly or out of place on an older frame. If you order some fresh reproductions of vintage decals on top of that, you may have earned a passport to time-travel back into cycling history.

Turning a Mustang into a resemblance of a Shelby machine may be fun, greatly satisfying and really worth doing, but I'd dare not call it a "Shelby".

Here is the worst that can happen: some mouth-breathing moron finds an AC Bristol; he jazzes it up with flares, drops a steaming hot V-8 into it, paints some stripes and calls it a Cobra! That, my friends, is vandalism. And we have all seen that in the vintage bike world.

What is quite ironic — and it has been mentioned before on other threads — some team riders with star reputations and pedigree sometimes rode machines that were painted and branded to be as the other team bikes from whatever constructor, but were actually entirely different bikes. I wish I had collected and filed some of these stories. Some of them described contemporaneous scandals, while others caused a lot of heat between team managers and rogue riders who insisted on riding bikes of their own choosing. Many of you may remember these stories better than I. One story that amused me concerned a team owner/manager who walked into worship the night before a race and, according to the legend, caught some of his riders in the midst of painting and relabelling bikes they wanted to ride. Still other riders had the blessings of team management. :)

Some things never change{speaking of the Falcon with Shelby parts** Back not so long ago I happened to be in Detroit, when it was a year or so before the "new" re-released two door T-birds came out. There was a yellow one already running the streets, and I saw it a couple of times a day in fact. It was very loud, seemed to be quite fast, and was being driven thusly. I asked about it to a few places, and was told it had a 32V Cobra motor, and it was a test mule of sorts. Either that, or it was a bigwig's sons toy. It depends on who you asked.,,,,BD

This one is not French made. Additionally, note the Reynolds 531 in English.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446645http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446646http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446647http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446648http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446649http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446650http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446651http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446652http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446653http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446654http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446655http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=446656

I like it! :)

Stuff like that is a time honored tradition in Detroit among the car company upper execs.
You never want to lose a drag race while on the way to work on Woodward Avenue.

[QUOTE]Yes. The purpose of my post was really only to express the general sentiment of the forum and to slightly re-frame things from a focus on the object to a focus on what the object represents. The OP posed a really good question that was focused on the object and which demonstrated the“internal challenge” we all face “restoring" bikes. It is not always obvious why we do what we do.



Really good example. Had to look up AC Bristol. Not sure if vandalism is a strong enough word. In this instance, the mouth-breathing moron is taking something of cultural significance (the fore runner to an AC Cobra) to create something of a different cultural significance (an AC Cobra). I don't see how anybody could create a credible argument for this, unless perhaps, the modifications were reversible. Even then it would not be a “restoration”; it would be something else - a re-creation?


I think the best is Merckx riding a Colnago decaled as a Windsor to break the hour record in Mexico. Apparently he did it to “thank” his hosts, but I believe (according to whomever) he also graciously took 25K. So, like would it be O.K. to take a Colnago Mexico paint it the same as Merckx's bike and put Windsor decals on it?

r

That's kind of the crux of it.

It's one thing to lust after unobtainium. It's another to actually acquire unobtainium. So the option is to manufacture unobtainium.

I love old Pontiac GTOs. However, they're visually mostly identical to the corresponding Pontiac LeMans. The big difference is the engine and a few of GTO badges. It takes not too much of anything to put those badges on, but it's still not a GTO- even if you drop a 389 or whatever into them. It's still a LeMans.

In the military or veteran circles- there's a push about "stolen valor." People who either make up or highly embellish their military service for gain. There's one thing of telling the equivalent of "fish tales" and another to completely fabricate service or add badges or rank to a uniform. When I was a kid, right after I got out of the Army, I went down to the local VFW hall. I swear there was not ONE person in that place who didn't claim to have stormed the beaches or dropped into Normandy on D-Day. That's kind of harmless ****-talking. However, when I was a kid, I was in HHC 1/508 ABN. We had our Scout platoon and a corporal came from the Ranger Bn. The guy was all of 5' tall, was apparently a hard talkin, tough walkin' Ranger badass. One of the NCOs from the Scout platoon went to some training- got in conversation with some Ranger School cadre and found out they admired his tenacity, but the "baby Ranger" had washed out of Ranger school a few times, and when he got transferred to Panama he just sewed a Ranger tab on his shoulder. That's just wrong on a whole lot of levels.

There's a concept of "it is what it is and be proud of it." I can't lay claim to not wish something I had was something else. I've got a mid-90s Telecaster that was part of the "Foto Flame" series. They had a very clever coating that made the wood look like highly flamed maple- and thus more desirable. I just saw it as a Japanese Telecaster and that it was close in appearance and "close enough" in feel to a 60s Tele. I sanded down the body and refinished it in Krylon almond- so it would look more like a 60s Tele. No intent to remove the Made In Japan or FotoFlame decals- and it would have been worth much more in it's garish flamey clownburst finish. But I'm more than happy to have the appearance it has, it may look like an old one from 10 feet or so- but it's not intended to fool anyone.

+1 My thoughts exactly....but as they say buyer beware and be armed with knowledge about what you are buying and even then you can get stung! :)
Regards, Ben