Thanks to the folks in and around this forum I've decided on the following for my 5mi stupid stressful stop and go city + 10mi stressfree no stop trail commute:

Shimano A530 SPD Pedals + Shimano SH-M089 Shoes.

I was going to stick with my Fyxation Platforms with straps - but I'm hoping that going clipless with relieve some of the stress off my knees. My commute used to be just the 5, but now that I've tripled it - I don't so much have pain - but I definitely feel one knee buzzing or tingling just to the side of my kneecap for a up to four or five hours after my ride. I'm hoping clipless + some phys therapy will help my knees. Is this a good assumption?

I was leary about going clipless in the city - but I've been noticing a ton of riders here in Chicago that are clipless...

Thats part of why I like them. It helps with foot stability as well as you can use different power balancing to unload pain spots. Keep in mind your cleats are very adjustable in rotation, side slide, and front-back. All aspects can relieve or exacerbate existing knee issues, so keep trying until you find your sweet spot.

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Typically going to clipless doesn't help for knee pain.... in fact if you don't get the cleat positioned right and don't have enough angle of movement, I would think it could make the pain worse. Most common cause of knee pain is due to not having your bike properly fitted... usually from the seat to low...

This. Go see a good fitter. They'll be able to get you in the right position. Knee pain can be caused by a few different fit issues - seat too far back, seat too far forward, seat too low, seat too high, pedal/cleat adjustment issues, etc... Some of us Clydesdales need pedal extenders to get our knee into the proper rotation instead of moving inside out during rotation. A good fit is well worth the $150-$300 it will cost. Due to all my weight loss, and changing goals (from Sprint Triathlons to Century plus rides), I've got to go get fitted again.

I love clipless, one thing I could see maybe is if you are wearing non cycling shoes with floppy soles you may be causing knee pain by somehow favoring your feet some way ? And you can try cycling shoes first on platforms, you need the shoes for clipless but you can use them on platforms, I did at first. One helpful hint about clipless is if you intend to lean left, turn the wheel right. That will save you from unclipping left and leaning right :-).

I was pain free prior to going clipless. Experienced new aches and pains during the first weeks of going clipless.
Both Shimano mtn shoes and Spd pedals. Saddle height played a role as well as cleat placement on the shoe.

The other clipless riders i encountered were most helpful observing and commenting on the " fit, setup " of my pedals. At this point many years later i would never consider not going clipless pedals.

Yes, this pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Knee pain = bad seat position. Clipless may exaggerate this issue, not solve it.

Clipless pedals are a double-edged sword. With SPD pedals in particular, if the cleat position is wrong you'll be forced to have it wrong for every single pedal stroke. On the other hand if you get it right, then it will always be right. I had to fiddle with my cleat position a bit until I got something that was all-day comfortable. When I first installed the cleats, they were extremely uncomfortable so don't be afraid to play with positioning! You may also find that clipless pedals exacerbate things like leg length discrepancies or footbed tilt. Now that I have everything setup properly, my knees are much happier with SPD clipless pedals than anything else I've tried.

I have one leg that is a bit off from normal, so my pedaling motion is intentionally not straight (figured this out with the help of a PT). Bones are straight, knee is not quite in line with them. I could compensate on platforms without cages or clips, SPDs make this difficult (have to loosen them up enough to create enough float). Speedplay Light Action fix everything for me, letting me point my knee out slightly and adjust my foot to compensate.

I knew the PT my family doctor sent me to was going to be interesting after the therapist asked me to walk across the room so he could see how my knees worked said "Can you do that again? That was... weird." It is working well. Even before the muscle building we did in my hip to help hold the leg outwards a bit started working I was able to increase my weekly distances 30% with less pain almost immediately. 18 months later my distances are up 150%+ per week, now with no pain from riding.

If you have trouble getting your motion *straight* most clipless can help with that. Really depends on what is causing your knee pain. If you're an outlier, like me, where you're causing inflammation by doing things the right way consult a professional.

Thanks for all the advice folks. I did go and get fitted prior to this knee thing flaring up -- I went through phys rehab so my insurance would pay for it. I feel like things got a little worse after the fitting. He raised my seat up and moved it forward a bit. He wanted to put platform things in my shoes but I didn't like that. I'm going to try clipless and see if he can dial in something good that alleviates - I wouldn't call it pain yet - but it's def my knees saying they don't like what's going on.

I have terrible knee pain when my clips are wrong, but I use speedplay now and the free float has largely solved that problem for me. My other issue is pain along the bottom of my foot associated with shoes that aren't stiff enough, which is what originally led me to cycling shoes.

Honestly, there's nothing more free floating the platform pedals, so if you have knee pain now, clipless pedals aren't likely to be the solution. Try riding without your straps for a week and see if you have pain. If so, work on your saddle position before adding another variable to the mix.

I have to disagree with this. I used to use Look pedals which offered a ton of float. I still had knee pain at the ends of long rides. I'm now using SPD pedals which offer almost no float and I have no pain. It's my belief that pedals with too much float allowed my knees to track through less-than-ideal positions during the pedal stroke. Repeat that poor pedal stroke 6000 times/hr for several hours in a row and you end up with knee pain. SPDs, on the other hand, force my knees into a more ideal pedal stroke... and keep them there. Not saying that clipless pedals will cure all knee problems, but they're worth a try.

It definitely helps if you can find a good bicycle fitter to work with. If your fitter is good, it also helps if you give their suggestions a try. I found that ideal better footbeds along with appropriate shims made a noticeable improvement in my comfort on long duration (>4-hour) rides.

Before I went to clipless I was having frequent knee pain... Being able to pull up on the pedal and allow power to be transmitted in different ways takes some burden off your knees.

But you might forget you're wearing them, fall over and whack your that knee that's been sore; that exact thing happened to a buddy of mine...

So be just careful if you get them... I recommend learning on the "multi-release" cleats; set the pedal tension slightly higher then normal pedaling so when you panic and yank your feet up hard they release...

+1.

I was thinking the same thing, and never heard of clipless being somehow better for knees. I ride clipless, so I don't think they're worse either if adjusted correctly.

Knee pain has to be diagnosed properly (sadly many "specialists" go with their pet theories over taking the time yo find your specific problem) to eliminate any serious organic issues. Then you have to address the root cause if cycling is involved. In most cases it's the result of riding too high a gear, or bad saddle position. If you use cleats of any kind cleat alignment is critical, or pedals need float or both.

Also, many less experienced cyclists do what I call bicycle isometrics. They push the pedals rather than turning them. By that I mean that the pedal can only turn in a circle, so high downward pressure before and after the 3 o'clock position means higher stresses on everything (including you). The pedals also want to turn at constant speed, and there's a tendency to try to move them faster by pressing harder.

By analogy, imagine you're trying to push a car. You can hurl yourself at it, or shove it hard with your arms, but all that happens is you get tired and the car stays put. However if you firmly apply steady pressure it's get rolling, and you can work yourself up to a run as it slow accelerates.

So it's the same with a bike, don't push the pedals down through the ground. Instead press them firmly for as much of the pedal stroke as you can, and even try to press at a forward and backward angle as you follow them around. The angle shift is hard to master, and most people save it for hill climbing at lower rpms, but eventually it becomes ingrained motion. Just concentrate on pressing only enough to make the bike go, and if that takes too much force, change to a lower gear.

"I was going to stick with my Fyxation Platforms with straps - but I'm hoping that going clipless with relieve some of the stress off my knees."

Is clipless going to "help" your knees?? NO! Oh hell NO!!

This device is designed to take stress away from the cyclist knee. Untitled Document

Knee pain is almost always due to riding in too high a gear too long. Clipless will help with that since they allow more spinning, riding in lower gears at much higher rpm.

I suggest aiming for steady rpm in the 90's. And, with your frequent stop and go ride, I suggest using the gears to ramp up to speed, shifting up every time you hit 100 or so but never riding below 80.

Once you get the seat height correct and your foot positioned properly, then it's on to cleat adjustment, float and Q factor (lateral distance foot to centerline of BB).

Getting the foot positioned properly is going to require insoles. The ones that typically come with shoes are basically garbage or worse. You need proper arch support to anchor your foot in the shoe. Otherwise, as you pressure the pedal and your arch collapses, the foot goes sort of loose in the shoe.

SPD style cleats have the least adjustment. Speedplay does have a new MTB cleat/pedal out that permits significantly more float than most other pedal systems and it's not "return to center" so there is no tension against your leg when your foot position changes. I have them and like them a lot but I don't have a lot of miles on them yet. I have knee issues in both knees (no ACL in one and torn and repaired meniscus in the other) and generally really like the float Speedplay provides.

In general, I'd totally agree with the others. Clipless is a lot more likely to exacerbate your knee issue than it is to help it. This is not where I'd look for this solution. Shimano SPD doesn't provide a whole lot of float.

Finally, the whole thing may be as simple as increasing your cadence to 70-80rpm and keeping the pressure on the pedals down. If you are pedaling at a lower cadence than this, it's very likely you are putting a lot of pressure on the pedals and that alone can cause leg issues.

J.

I think it will help with knee pains if you get the cleat right. you get a consistent 5* of float or more pending the pedal system. Vs un-defined range of straps pedal aka bear traps. I call them bear traps because if you need to unclip suddenly, your foot will never come out and you will tip over. Can be bad if tipped to the left into traffic. You might have the same problem for the first week when clipless until that habit of clicking in and out is formed. On emergency events, your feet will have a quick reflex to eject your feet

Aside from curing knee problems, you will get power through the entire pedal stroke, both up stroke and down stroke. Equals overall better efficiency by 30-50% = longer rides at easier effort including climbing.

Over the last year, I have developed quite a bit of knee pain that was not caused by cycling. I can't say whether my pain is similar to the OP's, but for what it's worth I switched to Speedplay Frogs. Since, other than the chronic pain, I have none of the additional discomfort that I was getting riding on other systems. Prior to my knee pain, I was happy with the SPDs, but then couldn't get enough float. Tried ATACs and those were worse. My doctor is a cyclist and recommended the Frogs. They work great for me.

Not entirely true. Platforms don't allow for free float during the pedal stroke. So its free in that you can pick any angle you want, but once you place your foot you're locked until you lift your foot again. Clipless allow your foot to free float while pedaling, so you wind up with a better angle. I actually went back to clipless on my MTB because I was having knee issues with platforms.

To the OP:
Get Shimano SH-56 (multi-release) cleats. They're much easier to get out of quickly, which is key for commuting. And use lower gears, get a computer with cadence and aim for 80-90 rpm when cruising on the flats.

I had extreme knee pain a few weeks ago after about 4-5 miles. Could hardly peddle even on flats. Had to catch a wheel to make the 15 miles back less painfull. Bike shop owner noticed the I was rotating my knee outward when peddling instead of up and down. Added spacers between peddle and crank. Problem solved. No issues since

Is this the new math? How could it be 15 miles back after only 4-5 miles out?

it's called a loop. Goes out and comes back. Pretty neat concept

In my experience, the SH-56 cleats simply aren't necessary. The standard SH-51 cleats release very easily, especially if you buy a Shimano pedal with adjustable release tension and set the tension to the minimum. I wouldn't bother with SH-56 cleats unless you've tried the standard cleats for a few weeks and found that you simply can't get used to them...