JohnJ80

It's of more interest to the bike manufacturers really. I try and avoid riding in the rain and I have a significant investment in rim brake wheels so it's a big don't care for me. My frames are custom steel so if I ever wanted to, I could add them.

Truer words were never spoken!

J.

ColaJacket

If you're group riding, you have to be careful with how you brake, even with rim brakes.

If you just need to tap, because you're coming up too quickly, you just need to tap either way.

And if the person in front of you does more than tap, you're probably going to try to match how much they do brake.

If it's a full emergency stop, you're probably going to grab as hard as you can anyways. In which case, you're probably not caring if the person behind you stops slower than you do. And they might for reasons totally unrelated to type of brakes (e.g. tires, weight, etc.)

GH

DMC707

USe 'em on mountain bikes for a long time now --- better power and more tuneable than a rim brake

--- Regarding changing wheel standards -- yes, thats a minor PIA, but my thoughts are the hydraulic setups will likely be found mostly on 11 speed setups anyway - which typically arent compatible with my older wheels either, -- so its a push

-- so for me hydraulic is a go if they ever get the weight a bit closer, ----- but cable actuated models? - i'd rather use a good rim brake with fresh pads

I dont have a road bike with disc brakes yet but have ridden one --- stopping power was good, but compared to my MTB - not even close - the skinny tires are still a somewhat limiting factor

dr_lha

Well some of us are already invested in 11 speed non-disc wheels!

cyccommute 

+1. And a bicycle's braking ability isn't limited by the brakes..even in the wet.

Frankly, I've, too, have owned jsut about every braking system there is. I currently own disc, linear, cantilever and dual pivot. I've learned how to mountain bike off-road with cantilever brakes, mountain biked with linear and I've mountain biked with disc. I never really noticed that huge of a difference between the brakes.

I've done loaded touring with cantilevers up to stupid speeds in rain and never worried about the brakes nor stopping when I needed to.
Of course, the bike's brakes have to be properly adjusted and often they aren't. Even in wet conditions, rim brakes work well as long as you take into account the initial lag in brake response. It's not actually a bad thing to have a bit of a brake lag in wet and slick conditions because if the brakes are applied too agressively, the bike can slide and/or crash.

hefledthescene

I've had both. I've ridden variations of both. I like em just fine. They stop my 270+ lbs of mass and that's all I really care about. All other opinions are irrelevant- I mean we are talking about bicycle parts ffs. Surely there are other more important things to devote your energy to.

chaadster

I can't believe that someone who claims to have ridden different types of brakes-- I mean actually ridden, and not just test rides or something-- cannot tell a difference in performance between types. Someone would really have to be out to lunch for that to be true, and so I think they're simply being disingenuous.

hefledthescene

I'm being completely candid when I say the disk and rim brakes I've used all worked great. I don't know why that's so difficult to understand. Perfect? No. Drawbacks? Both types had them. Were the drawbacks significant enough to be worth mentioning to a new cyclist who just bought his first bike? Not really.

Null66

LOVE THEM!

Especially downhill over 30, or 40, well then I'm really glad they're there...

But then my tires have outstanding traction. A 38 Marathon out back and a 32 panaracer tour guard.

Skinny tires, less traction...
Aggressive compound? More traction, especially more when went.

cyccommute 

I have one hydraulic disc equipped bike, 2 mechanical disc equipped bikes, 3 cantilever equipped bikes, one v-brake equipped bike and 2 dual pivot bikes. I've had most of them for several years and they get ridden hard for their intended purpose. One of the mechanical equipped bikes has a disc front and a v-brake in back. There is no functional difference between the brakes on that bike at all. The front and rear lever have the same feel and require the same amount of hand strength to actuate.

Beside the above 9 bikes, I have owned and ridden and broken lots and lots of other bike...most of them mountain bikes that were ridden hard off-road. The whole "discs are vastly superior to any other brake" is vastly overblown. If the rim brake is poorly adjusted, then a properly adjusted disc is better. But if a disc is poorly adjusted, there is no brake on the planet...including spoon brakes...that is worse.

But if a rim brake is properly adjusted...and by properly adjusted I mean the lever is approaching locked wheel by about half lever throw...it is every bit as effective as any disc on the planet. Now there are a few brakes that can never be properly adjusted...like the Diacompe centerpull from the 80s...but there are also lots of very poor disc brakes out there as well. The Avid BB5 comes to mind, although it is far better than many of the Chinese mystery disc that come on Helmart BSOs.

In the end, how the brakes are used is far more important than what the brakes are. Frankly, I've never been in a situation where I thought I needed more brake than the properly adjusted brake I already had. I can already lift the rear wheel of any bike I own or have ever owned...with the exception of tandems. If you can use the brakes to lift the wheel of a bike, the brake is sufficient to the task.

JohnJ80

Not true. Many have as big investment in wheels as the rest of the bike(s). Wheels made in the last several years have been 10 and 11 speed compliant with just a spacer needed to make the change. For example, I just built a new bike this year and it was a rim brake version because of the stable of wheels that I have.


Same with me. I have bikes with both and it's just not that big of a difference.

Exactly.

DMC707

You might send a copy of your findings to Shimano to let them know that their 10 speed wheels (which are compatible with 8 and 9 speed with a spacer) are compatible with 11 speed as well --- the only way that works is with a current XTR or XT 11 speed cassette, and only because the 40 and 42 tooth teeth are big enough to shroud the spoke dish a bit
--- but it doesnt work that way with the road stuff

The most current 11 speed wheels can go backwards with a spacer, sure. Regarding my personal stable full of wheels --- far more are 10 speed than 11 speed, and its not exactly dinosaur era stuff - 10 speed was current up to 2 years ago

Im only speaking about Shimano, not SRAM or Campy

Jarrett2

First of all, I rarely ride when its wet and almost never ride in the mountains. The one time I did ride in the mountains, I had BB7's and my LBS said that I "blue'd" the rotors, so maybe it was a good thing that I had them there. But aside from that, I don't really find I need them.

My biggest local descent is only quarter a mile long at around 13%, where I get up around 40 mph and for that, my caliper rim brakes work fine. I never feel like I can't stop in that scenario.

I admit I like caliper brakes a lot more on road bikes. I can set them and forget them. I just find my BB7's rubbing a lot. I can get them dialed in perfectly on the stand, but one solid bump on the road throws the wheel(s) slightly askew in the dropout and then you've got rub.

On my MTB, I don't care. A rubbing brake is the least of my concerns. But on a road bike, adding unnecessary drag on the bike in a 60-80-100 mile really sucks. Especially when you are trying to keep up with a group of folks whose brakes are not rubbing.

I have not ridden the new Shimano hydraulic road brake stuff. If that system solves all of that, then hallelujah, but based on the tolerances of a disc brake and quick releases, I have a hard time understanding why it would be any different than any other disc brake option.

alathIN

I have them on my primary bike - it's a road style commuter/tourer. I do like them, but it's not a deep devotion of religious magnitude - there are pros and cons.

On the downside, I have found them noisy (despite being hydraulic and resin pads).

I do think I can stop better/faster, especially in the wet and especially with weight. I am not small and I usually have one or two panniers when I'm riding; sometimes pull a trailer. The more load you put on the bike, the more I appreciate the discs.

I also like the flexibility in tire sizes, since the tire doesn't have to fit through a caliper and pads. My old road bike would not have taken the 32mm tires I'm running now, and I love the bigger tires. If anything I will go bigger next time.

JohnJ80

There are a LOT more wheel/hub brands out there than Shimano that have been building in the 10/11 speed support. In point of fact, many of the premium wheel/hub sets have had it for a long time (many years now) and those are the ones that are going to be a pricey throwaway just for a brake upgrade/side-grade. That's a LOT of wheels most of which are still great wheels with a lot of miles in them. And, in point of fact, those are probably a lot of the premium customers who would look at a disc brake wheel based bike and are generating a lot of the inertia against changing.

I'll probably never buy Shimano hub based wheels again for reasons other than the the lack of 11 speed support when others had it - they just have not been very good wheels. They were cheap, but you get what you pay for. But that's off topic.

J.

Willbird

A lot of bikes I shopped last year, they would have been 2014 model year, were billed as 11 speed ready wheels, my 2014 EVO has RS11 wheels which were billed as 11 speed ready.

chaadster

What's difficult to understand is why some people can't understand the difference between saying different types of brakes work sufficiently well, and saying there are discernible differences in the way they perform.

So again, in any one person's world, their sidepulls, cantis, Vs, or discs might work sufficiently well for their needs. Whoopee...who cares? Because in the rest of the world, there are conditions that impact not only the function of the brakes, but the users perception of how good they feel to use, their ease of maintenance, and their value.

If you think cantis work as well as discs in the cold, snow, wet, and mud, you are a fool or a liar. If you think that having rim brakes grind away at your sidewalls, throwing nasty, black grime from wet rides, having pads come out of alignment compromising performance or scuffing your wheel or tire graphics, or needing to remember to reset your brakes after wheel removal, needing readjust your brakes for pad wear or changes, and needing wrenches for most common issues are all minor, and even fun stuff to deal with, go do your thing, dude, but a lot of people are not impressed by your definition of "just as good."

I don't have particular troubles with my sidepulls or Vs, either, but there's no doubt that if cost and weight issues were removed from the equation, that I'd run discs because they're better and allow more options in terms of rim material, design, and finish. As I used as an example before, I'm interested in deep section carbon rims, but worried about rim brake performance. Disc brake carbon deep section erases that concern and opens up the possibility of all carbon for me.

sgtrobo

Wild. I don't have nearly the experience that here have but I easily notice the difference, even among different hydros. Maybe it's because I'm a fatty and I ride in the muck and slime where differences become more apparent more easily. I notice a tremendous difference. Shimano hydros (XT/785/685) are noticeably more powerful and far more quiet than SRAM (never used Red level), both are more powerful than mechanical, and all the disk brakes have been noticeably stronger than rim brakes.

I've never used "top-of-the-line" rim brakes but with the crud I ride in, I just can't see doing that to my wheels, and I tear through rim pads like crazy as it is

dr_lha

Shimano 10 speed hubs are not forwards compatible, but you may have heard of Mavic, a popular wheel builder, and their factory wheels have for many years required an extra spacer for 10 speed cassettes, that magically meant they were 11 speed compatible when 11 speed cassettes came along. I would guess that is what the poster was referring to.

DMC707

Im a bit of a reluctant Shimano fan because Shimano stuff works and works well ---- i am familiar with most of the boutique wheels and have had a number of sets of "race day" wheels over the years from makers like Zipp, Corima, HED, and hubs from King, White, Hugi, Hope and others. I used to be a Campy man, until i rode the 1st generation Dura Ace 10 speed stuff about 12 or so years ago --- then it was bye bye Campy


I do have a couple of sets of Mavic 10 speed wheels but havent tested them to see if 11 will work as i havent gone to 11 speed shifting yet on anything but the mountain bikes

For a nice set of day to day wheels , it is hard to beat a set of Dura Ace or Ultegra hubs laced 3x to a decent MAvic rim -- (although i like Chris King's stuff too ) Great bearings, quiet, positive pawl engagement, long life -- good stuff


Disc brakes dont work for you? Dont buy 'em ---- my thoughts of the current crop of disc brake equipped bikes is they are day to day commuters, cruisers, and tuesday night group ride and weekend charity century machines -- y'know, - the type of riding most of us do

They are not light enough to be pure race bikes yet, and there are some aspects of the racing world they just dont seem to fit in with (It would be amusing to see a 90mm time trial wheel laced to a disc hub for instance ) -

--- When Specialized released photos of their "throw the gauntlet down" 2015 Venge, as well as Trek's upper tier machine, - they are still on rim brakes -- albeit, very trick rim brakes

But a simple fact is the manufacturer's dont care if a curmudgeon like you or me has a stockpile of old wheels that are now obsolete --- its planned that way , --- much like the rise of the gravel and fatbike fads

JohnJ80

I have 3 sets of wheels with Ultegra hubs (10 speed) just as you describe - Shimano Ultegra laced to Mavic Reflex rims. When I bought a set of wheels with similar rims but DT350 hubs, my average speed went up. I replaced my wife's wheels with some non Shimano hubbed wheels and the same thing happened. While not conclusive or scientific, all three Shimano wheels seemed to suffer the same fate. The DT Swiss hubbed wheels seemed to be across the board faster (not mention 10/11 speed capable). Not surprising, the DT Swiss hubs are going to be an upgrade over the Shimano ones anyhow but I didn't expect it be that noticeable.

So, I'm pretty much done with the Shimano wheels and hubs. They are going on bikes I'm preparing to sell.

J.

B8888S

I did not read this entire thread, but I will share my opinion anyway. I have five bikes in my "bike room" right now. All of those bike are mountain bikes except for one. My road bike, Roubaix, is the only one I currently own that uses rim brakes. I have learned how to work on disc brakes and none of them currently make any noise or cause me any problems. You do need to bed the pads properly at first or they can get pretty noisy. I really like the ability to brake using only 1 finger and easily control the modulation. On my downhill mountain bike, Specialized Demo 8 II, it is very comforting knowing I can slow from 45mph, down the Mammoth Kamikaze, in a controlled fashion using only finger on each lever. They only downside I see with my setups are that they tend to go through pads pretty quickly. My trail bike, Stumpjumper FSR, tends to get new pads about twice a year, or approximately every 500 miles or so. This is likely due to my weight, 225, and the type of trails that I typically ride. My Roubaix has 5K plus miles on it and still on the stock pads that came with it. Anyway, I have already made up my mind and know that my next road bike will be equipped with hydraulic disc brakes for sure.

Damien09

I like disks on my moutian bike.But on road bikes that dont see the rain the benfit is not a big for me as the small tires limit the brakeing power, where what good is it to have more power if you just end up locking wheels out sooner. Modulation is a plus but not enough for me to switch my road bikes to them.In the wet they are amazing tho or with bigger tires that can take advantage of the extra power.

JohnJ80

Sounds pretty much like my Ultegra 6800 caliper rim brakes.

J.

sgtrobo

I have a 2015 Roubaix Comp Carbon SL4 with disc brakes, and they are ridiculously smooth and silent. I'm 250 and I ride in all conditions here in the Pacific NorthWET. So that's a good choice.