Tom Stormcrowe

BY the way, I'm not going to get into a big argument here as to what I can or can't do. I know my ability now vs where I started and that's all that matters to me. If you choose to believe or not is fine with me either way. One thing I have learned though is that if I listened to everybody who told me I couldn't physically do something, I would never have started riding at all....it's impossible for a bike or trike to support someone the size I was....or that's how the common thought goes. I actuallt had a bike shop refuse to sell me a bike because it was "Too risky and they didn't want the liability!" It's impossible to get your life back if you were as sick as I was! That's what my Dr told me! How about it's impossible to distance ride after bariatric surgery? I guess I knocked that one in the head as well! Have a nice day and believe what you like!

charles vail

Progress can be somewhat illusive if one overtrains. I just got tired of seeing that mph number and getting all excited trying to keep it up above some imaginary number that I thought I needed to be riding at. This often happens when we compare ourselves to others of differing abilities and we ignore our own limitations. Keeping our heartrate in the "good zone" where it does the most good with the occaisional interval thrown in for good measure isn't a bad way to train IMHO. What I'm talking about is a more intuitive method of riding that depends on listening to your body signals, with some basic knowledge of training concepts kept in mind. For us overweight riders, which most of us are, not to mention probably over 30 or even 40 or older, like myself, we have to keep in mind that it takes alot longer to recover from overdoing it than it does getting to a certain level in the first place.
If a rider wants to "make progress" and is leveling off it may be that training is not so much the answer but losing additional weight might make the biggest difference. This has been my experience, in that, without losing the excess poundage, I won't make very large gains no matter how hard I push myself. In fact, I will probably overtrain and burnout which will certainly lead to a leveling off in perfromance. Its a big catch 22, the delecate balance of age, weight, training and genetic abilites. Overtrain and you lose progress (sometimes permanently) undertrain and you level off, overeat and you stop progess, undereat and you have no energy to train. The whole thing gets kind of frustraiting, trying to find a healthy balance, that leads to satisfaction. For my peace and tranquility, I prefer to take a more relaxed approach. I ride long rides when I feel like it and shorter or less strenuous ones when I am feeling a little tired. I try to give myself a recovery day between hard efforts and don't worry if I can't keep up with younger and/or faster riders since I am not racing anyway. Keep in mind that very tiny differences separate winners from losers in any race and they usually require huge efforts in training and sacrifice. The actual (average speed) differences between a winner and a 2nd place finisher are oftentimes barely measureable. If you expect to see huge gains in average speed you are going to be dissappointed. How you feel about your riding on a non pro level and how healthy you are I think, is more important overall than ones actual mph increases.

Just my opinions........

masi61

I'm not seeking an argument, I was just trying to imagine that 24 mile one hour time trial. You definitely merit mega high fives for your weight loss accomplishments and long distances travelled. Perhaps you do the first hour "anaerobic" as you say and you're blessed at being able to mash big gears for shorter distances.
Its been years since I averaged over 20mph on a ride, I guess if I keep at it I'll get into the 18mph averages over the next 6 months.
By the way,
Good Luck with nursing school. I'm an RN myself, and have been for over 20 years, like the biking, its a difficult challenge as well.

Tom Stormcrowe

Sorry if I came on a bit strong, Masi! I just get so much of the "You can't do this and you can't do that and that's too risky" from my family and friends that it's a bit of a sensitive subject for me. If I blow my heart out or whatever doing something I love doing, then that's fine with me. I can't seem to get family to understand that is all! Frankly, after a 25 mile TT at that pace, I can't walk for an hr or so because I'm so spent. I must say, the endorphin high is something incredible though. I wouldn't trade that feeling for anything! I can understand the questions though, now that my hot button turned off!

masi61

Riding yourself into fitness really does seem to take a very long time. It sounds like you use a heart rate monitor, that's probably a smart move. I've never tried one myself. I was thinking about this thread as I participated in a club ride today and I wonder if I came across too opinionated. I think I was trying to put myself into the uber-clydes shoes (I'm over 200 but closer to 200, than 300, currently ~230#). As a frequent visitor to the bike mechanics forum and owner of multiple road bikes, I think that a missing component of this thread involves the synergy between the physical training aspects, combined with the fit, and performance of the bicycle. As you become fitter, your body adapts gradually to many specific movements and positions. These adaptations have to be accompanied by ongoing small adaptations to the bike. Many small "tweaks" taken together really become apparent on club rides where some riders (big and small) clearly have their act together where others, well, the others haven't quite gotten it right. I know this sounds like I'm saying you need the full racing kit, lightweight wheels and exotic frame materials ad nauseum - but no - I'm saying you need a long list of equipment choices to harmonize together and all the items are important. For me I need my mega width Sidi cycling shoes and clipless pedals with float, I need my Pace Cat1 bib shorts with elastic chamois, I need my drivetrain to have a triple crank with 172.5mm arms and my rear cassette to have tightly spaced cogs with a gear spread to handle the terrain I'm riding, I need excellent brakes, I need excellent tires at the right tire pressure, I need 2 water bottles, 1 with gatorade and the bigger one with water, I need a microadjusting seatpost with a comfortable saddle that supports continuous high cadence spinning, but doesn't lead to saddle sores. I need to have a bike that I'm fully comfortable in riding in every weather condition.
Anyway, I don't mean to bore folks with all my little obsessions for setting up my bike, I just think that people are too quick to label it "OCP" or "something that racers do". To me, in order to not stall out in your progress you have to stay very active mentally off the bike as well as on. There are a lot of things to learn about and if you keep the process fresh and active, new successes are possible.

catatonic

Yes, it's true....as a clyde we can attain very high speeds for a short time. It's just a function of raw power. It's hard to stay aerobic at such a high weight, so amny heavier riders just go anerobic for as long as possible.

Problem is having the energy stores to go anaerobic for that extended a duration. Bonking hard is very likely. Keep in mind every time you accelerate, you will burn more energy than if you kept the same speed the entire time...so cornering form is crucial for a clyde who expects to get any race time in.

As for picking up speed....you just have to push yourself as hard as you can. Comfortbale long rides will build up cardio, while short insanely intense rides will build up strength.

Oh, and stop obsessing about aero bikes. Get a bike with a sturdy frame and rims, get the smoothest, most durable hubs/BB/headset you can, and enjoy the speed. A smooth bike is worth far more than an aero or light bike. My bike is light by coincidence, since I went for a certtain look, and those parts happened to be light and strong. However, my biggest decisions revolved around bearings...and I could not be happier.

john bono

+1

I've dealt with that too. Everyone in my family is going nuts that I bought a light so I could keep my mileage up through the winter.

Tom Stormcrowe

I ride a 531 lug frame older bike in exceptional condition. I get my best speed in the drops. I do mash in big gears as long as I can and definitely run anaerobic. I'm not comfortable with aerobars, I don't like the lack of control steering with the elbows. Instead I opt for the "Eddie Merx" position, down as low as I can get and tuck in tight as I can without restricting my breathing and on the downhills give it a hard push til I spin out and tuck the knees in tight, cranks at 3 and 9 O'clock, slide back on the saddle and parallel the top bar with my chin about an inch off the quill. That's where I get my primary advantage, believe me! I'm a rocket on the DH and frankly, I'm a bit terrified of using a "lightweight" bike for fear of frame failure. I also get a bit of recovery and reoxygenate in these stretches.

charles vail

Well said........currently my best fit and perfromance as far as high mph averages has been on my recumbent. A well fitting upright bike is absolutely critical to performance and comfort if you can call it that!!! My own upright machines range from a streetified mid 90's MTB, a early 80's Raleigh lugged steel touring bike (my main ride) and a 70's/80's lugged steel Campagnolo equipped race bike that is probably too lightly constructed for my weight. High spoke count (36) on all my wheels and steel frames with higher than the saddle, bars, makes me the most comfortable (no numb hands) and allows me to ride fast enough to suit me. If I were riding a lower handlebar bike I'd still be way slower than
when on my recumbent and in pain. If I want to travel fast, the 'bent' gets the nod, unless the ride is plagued with numerous steep climbs, then its a wash between the old Raleigh with low gearing and the recumbent as far as average overall speeds.
Getting lighter will understandably go a long way to making me more able to endure the awkward position of riding all bent over but......I take the approach touted by Grant Peterson of Rivendell when it comes to rider positioning for everything but racing and that is something I have no plans for. Inside,I'm still a thrill seeking 20 something rider on his Bianchi race bike but (that was over twenty-five years ago) today, I am a overweight, old guy, riding a well fit touring bike, that enjoys riding for the fitness benefit and the
pure pleasure of riding,with no illusions of winning the TDF or any other race.

To the original poster.....wanting to increase his speed who has gone from a 10 mph average to a 12.5 mph average, I'd say you have your work cut out for you! The increase you already have attained is quite impressive when you consider the actual percentage increase! If my math is correct, haven't you
already improved by 25%?

charles vail

Wow! I live not too far from you off Hwy 7

Hambone

In my experience, to increase your speed work on your technique and your motor.

For the technique part: it is about the spin. In the off season training on rollers is great. One legged laps, too. If you have a favorite loop do one righty then one lefty... I've been told that riding a fixed gear is also a great way to improve your spin. I've not done it yet but am considering building a winte bike which is a fixie, just so I don't have to deal with the maintenance of my geared bikes.

And on the technology side, I think a cadence function is better than mph. I find if I ride with cadence displayed my avg. speed increases without my really being fixated on it.

For the motor, just like running, if you want to improve your time it is not enough to just train... it really matters how you train. There are volumes on this and a search of the road section will get you some really knowledgeable and thoughtful information. The number one thing I have done to increase my speed is intervals. At least three/30% of my rides per week are intervals.

SoonerLater

Absotively!

When running was my focus (and I was lot larger than now), I used to run at lunch with a bunch of guys who did various 5 and 6 mile routes M-F. I'd start with them every day and just try to hang on as long as I could. My goal was to stay with the group a little longer every day. It took quite a while, but I went from blowing up in 1/2 mile to staying with the pack the entire route. Biking is no different. Find someone that you have to fight to stay with. Ride with someone who pulls you out of your comfort zone.

SoonerLater

CONGRATULATIONS!

You rock, bdinger. Keep up the good work. Way to go. You inspire us all.

SoonerLater

mkadam68

My stats:I whole-heartedly agree with Big John and cannot say this loudly enough! If you want to go fast, ride with faster riders. It will "teach/train" your body what it feels like to push faster.

Alone, on flat roads, I push 19--21mph. On flat roads, with a group: 25mph+ !

To illustrate the point:

About 14 years ago, I was riding with the local race club. We had 10-12mi circuits we would do laps on. On the hillier circuits, I would drop off on the first hill and never see them again. I just kept plugging away. One day, we were on a flatter than normal course. I still fell off on the small hills, but managed to catch back on every time. I was dying!--But I was staying with the group. At the end, they wound it up and sprinted for the finish. I didn't know where the finish was, so I didn't get a great placing, but I figured I could have been top 5 or 3 places (I got 6th out of 10).

Shortly after this, I won my one and only race--fairly easily too. Being a former football player, I have large muscles and used them to win the flat finishing sprint by two bike lengths. I was also attacking the rest of the racers repeatedly (3 times) throughout the short 12-mile race (they always managed to come back though after 5-10 mins). I also went on for the next 4 years to do well in races I previously did lousy in. I got several third-places, 4th place, a second-place, you get the idea.

But, I only do this once per week (Mondays) with a slower, longer group ride on Saturdays. Pushing harder and faster will take its toll on your knees until they get stronger and adapt.

howsteepisit

One thing to add, if you want to ride faster your have to train faster (hence all the advise to train with faster riders), the other way to do this is interval training. Arnie Baker has some very good descriptions and advise on getting faster in his book Serious Cycling. Although he writes a bit like the physician he is, its one of the best how to books out there.

Edit: Its Smart Cycling by Baker, Serious Cycling is by Ed Burke, not nearly as detailed as Bakers book IMHO. Sorry

Wogster

Well, a stopwatch and a pencil doesn't deal with actual distance, highway markers and distance signs are notoriously inaccurate, map distances can be tricky to calculate, especially if there are twists and turns in your route. Sometimes the best ride, is to get on the bike, point it in a certain direction, and ride until you come across something interesting (then stop and photograph it . However if your just interested in time and distance, one of the small GPS units might be a good compromise, they can show total distance traveled and most of them have clocks built in, and if you get lost, you can use the GPS to find your way back again.

Speed isn't the issue, but I think the original posters concern was distance over allowed time, and in that case, you either need to increase speed or time in order to increase distance. One thing is to follow a fitness regimen that increases distance, then rearrange your time schedule to accomodate those extra rides.

charles vail

Well....I guess my statement that I knew the distances (all of them) was overlooked? In fact, I trust my stopwatch (or my clock at home) and my pencil and paper since if you know the distance you can figure the average speed. Max speed, current speed, who cares, I don't any more. As for getting lost, well, that could be a problem in an unfamiliar area or out on a trail in the boonies. Since I am primarily a road rider in an area that I have lived for 38 years I know most of the roads in my county and quite a few in two adjacent counties, not to mention a map costs less than five bucks and doesn't need batteries, same with the pencil and paper. I'll just about bet that most of us seldom ride our weekly "training rides" outside of our county or the general area that we live in and most simply make an out and back route or a giant loop when we ride. Group rides in unfamiliar areas have maps and markers so the whole GPS/computer thing seems redundant to me. Believe me, I think all the electro-tech stuff is clever but its not the only way or even neccessary. For some of us, these contraptions are expensive, confusing, fragile, distracting, dependant on batteries and subject to not working like they are supposed to, without warning.
Cranky......but hey, I'm cool with whatever works for any of y'all.