steve0257

Methinks the weight matters depending on the type of riding you're doing. If speed is not important to you the weight probably doesn't matter. If you're trying to get that last mph out of your bike than the eight does matter.

grimace308

i dont believe you. as a scientist, im sure youll be happy to fund some of my research. you will build me a top of the line lynskye xbike, with all the latet and greatest components, which i will compare to an off the shelf beater...like say...a felt f35x. daily, i will ride one of these bikes 5 blocks to the local pub and then try and find my way home after an afternoon of lager and snacks...on your tab.

after a year of testing, i shall prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that for a clyde, having the lightest bar bike possible, is not only beneficial in terms of getting to last call, but that it might also save your life...when you run out on a $500 tab

dscheidt

That's how people selling snake oil stay in business. Denial is a very strong defense mechanism. Admitting that you wasted a bunch of money on junk is painful. Getting on the bike and riding faster works a whole lot better. Not as easy as whipping out the visa card, but much more effective.

njkayaker

There are other calculators too.

And there was some validation against real power measuring devices:

"The data for the bicycles are essentially based on measurements, done with SRM Power Measuring cranks, and partly on coast-downhill comparisons."

And you are putting faith in nothing but vague statements and guesses.

===============

This is silly. That's an extreme example. (One thing the calculators don't really account for is the need for output constant power for long periods on long climbs.)

If you are spending lots of money and time preparing for a race, small differences in performance are worth a great deal (as I said earlier). What might be appropriate for person who is a contender in a race won't be appropriate for everybody.

The physics is the same regardless.

How much does each cost?

A 16 lb bike can easily cost $4000, a 20 lb bike costs about a $1000. So, you are saying that only rich people should ride?

Now, if you were going to give me a 16 lb bike, I'd happily take it (see below). If I had the 18 lb bike (and I wasn't concerned about winning), I would use the 18 lb bike (and not worry too much about it).

===============

Keep in mind that the weight issue is an engineering one. That is, you have to know the benefit (and vague guesses won't do) and the cost to be able to decide if the benefits outweigh the costs.

njkayaker

Yup.

Keep in mind that it is very expensive to reduce the weight of a bicycle by any significant amount. Many people who do very long distance riding don't ride especially light bicycles.

njkayaker

Yet, you don't have any numbers measuring this "impact".

CPFITNESS

This discussion is like fitness discussions I have regarding supplements. Some people swear they legitimately work. Others say that its a placebo effect. Because you know your taking something you subconsciously workout harder and get better results. Personally I think its somewhere in between, some help and some just mentally working harder. If you go out and buy a brand new bike your excitement of being on a new bike is probably going to have you riding faster.
Too many clydes say " I need to get weight off me" and end up content with just cruising around. Well if you want to lose weight you need to push harder when you ride and if buying a lighter bike is what's gonna motivate you then go for it. I still stand by my earlier statement. My flat bar rapid is easier in my 42/28 gear combo than my nishiki in 40/28 . The nishiki is 7 lbs heavier.

njkayaker

Yes, it is kind of like that: if you aren't spending money, you are doing it wrong! Lots of that and little science.

People "swear" that ghosts exist too!

The only way you can know a "supplement" really works is with a double-blind controlled study.

So, "supplements" are a crap shoot, that somebody is making money from. That's rational!

I bet the motivation won't last very long! Bicycle riding is hard regardless. Hopefully, people who can't afford an expensive "lighter bike" are not fooled into thinking it's required. People not that long ago managed to do all sorts of riding on 20+ lb (a typical "light" bike weight a few years ago).

Kneez

This really gets to me sometimes. I remember when 20lbs was a really light bike but now it's too heavy to race.

njkayaker

That doesn't get me too much. It's the common idea that such a bike is unacceptable when not racing that is annoying!! 20lbs is a fairly-typical weight for moderately priced (but still good quality) bicycles still!

Herbie53

When you're trying to muster that last bit of available energy to catch the last wheel at the top of a long climb and you can't it matters. Riding around on the MUP, no so much.

Wogster

Well that's the thing isn't it, the lighter bike will give better performance, when the weight difference is significant, there are a few questions though:

1) If the rider went out and worked his tail off and lost 7lbs, would be get similar performance with the heavier bike as he does 7lbs heavier with the lighter bike?
2) How much do other factors have to do with it, tires, tire pressures, fit, rider position, mechanical efficiencies, weather conditions, etc?
3) If 7lbs is significant does that mean 3½lb is half as significant, and is 1¾ pounds as half as significant as that and is ⅞lbs half that significant?
4) Is there a point where the significance of the difference falls below the noise floor?

I have a feeling that the answer is not what the marketers of super light bicycle components would like us to believe....

njkayaker

???

I kind of doubt that it would help much, in such a situation, to stop and take weight-off of the bicycle. And, if it's truly that "last bit" of energy, he will be dropped on the next little climb.

Anyway, "everybody knows" that heavier riders/bikes descend faster!!

Anyway, if this person probably had spent more time in the drops, they wouldn't be in this pickle. I suppose you don't do things like carry water.

pacificaslim

Or you could just ride the lighter bike faster and burn the same amount of calories.

(anyone remember this one? https://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-618706.html)

njkayaker

A classic!

grimace308

first off, the facetiousness of my post was lost, most likely due to me forgetting to insert the proper emoticon...as if wasnt ridiculous enough

secondly, you need to get out of the lab and laugh more often.

thirdly, if youd stop gluing my tires at night, we wouldnt be having this discussion

lastly, i cant run up a $500 tab in the bar anymore, those days are long gone, so $200 is a more accurate number.

you win

PPPPFFFFFPPPT

dscheidt

But gluing your tires at night gets me out ofthe lab. And keeps me from running up a bar tab!

Herbie53

Wut?

I'm talking about fast group rides or races, where getting dropped from a wheel of the group is the difference between continuing on at 25+mph or being left alone at less than 20mph. It can be as little as a foot that makes all the difference.

Sure, I don't carry water. WTH?

chasm54

Thank you. It's rare that I actually laugh out loud while reading.

DX-MAN

I won't spend more than about $50 on lightweight parts unless they'll save more weight than I can lose in a week -- and I once lost 6 lb. overnight with no ill effects. A light supper and a good dump took care of that!

Never had a bike under 28 lb. I'm a little skittish about a bike that light -- I might SNAP it!

njkayaker

All that water is extra weight. Getting rid of it is free! If the small amount of weight really matters, you should strip every unessential thing off of your bicycle!!

Again, there is an performance enhancement to having less weight (that's obvious and no one is arguing that). But the performance enhancement is small (physics says so) and, quite soon, becomes expensive.

Again, the large expense of this small performance enhancement is valuable to some one who is competitive in a race (and we aren't talking racing). But the enhancement is still small.

The problem is that many people think that a small reduction in weight has a large performance enhancement, which is false.

In your scenario, the people on that ride are likely already riding fairly light bicycles (that is, everybody is likely riding similar bicycles). What/where are the large amounts of weight that are there to be removed?

Why is a tiny bit of less (but expensive) weight the best way for this unknown person to keep on the wheel of a club ride?

It sounds like you are suggesting everybody must spend $10,000 on ultralight bicycles before they even think of doing this kind of ride.

sstorkel

Actually, their Achilles heel is that they assume that all power output levels are equally easy to generate by any rider for any length of time. If you've trained with a power meter, and I have, you know that this simply isn't the case!

Especially for those of us who aren't world-class athletes, small differences in required power can make a big difference in real-world results. If dropping weight off the bike means that you can make a 5- or 10-watt difference in required power, that could be the difference between operating at your FTP for an hour then collapsing or riding at a pace that's difficult but which you could maintain for several hours. Human performance is wonderfully non-polynomial sometimes, which is why simplistic on-line calculators can easily lead one astray...

Or it might cost a lot less if you know where to shop.

I have one post in this thread and I don't think it says anything like that. Please: refrain from trying to ascribe such ridiculous bullsh*t to me...

Just so we're clear: what I'm saying is that weight does matter. And, somewhat counter-intuitively, it probably matters more for people who aren't world-class athletes or competitive racers.

Herbie53

From NJK - "It sounds like you are suggesting everybody must spend $10,000 on ultralight bicycles before they even think of doing this kind of ride."

What he said. What is your deal njk?

dscheidt

You're arguing from assertion. Please provide some, you know, evidence. Magical thinking doesn't count.

Absenth

I'm a cycling noob here..... But I'm also in the Clydes and Athenas forum......

Would it be safe to say removing 10 lbs from the average road bike is easier or harder than removing 10 lbs from the average Clyde?
Second question. Would it be safe to say that a clyde who reduces his stature by 10 lbs is likely to also gain an aerodynamic advantage over his former self?
Sounds like a win win.

I'm willing to bet that unlike golfing buying good equipment in cycling can take someone who's average and make them perform a little better than average. In Golf if you give Tiger Woods some $200 clubs from Wal-Mart he's still Tiger Woods. If you give Lance Armstrong a Surley Pacer, he's still Lance Armstrong.