TrojanHorse

can you upgrade to hornets?

I've heard people say they got a much better ride out of DA hubs than CK, saying it was much smoother. I have no idea, but Chris King hubs are priced right at the top of the hub game and I'll probably pass for that reason.

sstorkel

Sorry, angry bees only.

I doubt there's much difference in smoothness; all of the really expensive hubs use decent bearings. The big problem with Chris King hubs is the noise.

TrojanHorse

nice find.

Shimagnolo

When I bought a pair of Phil Woods in 1997, the rear came with angry bees. I got used to it and it was even handy when I approached people from behind on the MUP, since I could just coast and they would immediately know I was there.

About 12 years later, I sent it in for service when the freehub started making noises like it was going to self-destruct. When it came back, it worked perfectly, but they forgot to put the angry bees back in; In fact it was dead silent! I got curious, so I called them up. They told me there was nothing different in the new freehub they had put on, except that it was packed full of grease, and would eventually get louder.

dramiscram

He can't tell precisely but he told me to expect a bill around 50-60$ for the rebuild of a 32 spoke wheel.
the first time I took the wheel he charged me 15$ for 3 spokes, the second time He charged me 13$ for 4 spokes and last week He didn't have enough spoke to rebuild the wheel then so he didn't charge me for 1 spoke. He ordered spokes and will rebuild the wheel this coming friday, which is a good thing because I broke a 9th spoke this morning

Buck_O

Sad truth is, any monkey can "true" a wheel with 5 minutes of instruction.

It takes a skilled wheel builder to properly tension a wheel.

Theose CXP-22 rims should hold up just fine. And i would imagine your hubs are probably ok too. My guess would be, as others have asserted, that the wheels was not tensioned properly to begin with, and now that you have replaced one spoke, the other fatigued spokes are starting to let go under the strain.

For a 28 spoke wheel, at your weight, i would consider some beefier DT Swiss spokes, or some bladed spokes that can give a little more tension preload, and help carry the weight more efficiently.

I might also try shopping the differnt shops in your area to find a better wheel builder.

szewczykm

Here's what I've decided, and have under way. There are about four bike shops in my area. Everyone is nice and they're all about the same distance apart, so it's hard to choose which shop. Having this work done is helping narrow things down. The shop that replaced the first spoke seemed to have a decent mechanic, but they seemed hurried. Hence the spoke twang when I first got on my bike after the spoke had been replaced. I think he just put in a new spoke, trued the wheel, and considered it done.

My regular, regular only because I've been there 4 times, shop was closed for a couple of days so that's why I tried the different shop. Anyway, my "regular" shop is full of road bikes and mountain bikes. It seems really geared for more serious riders and adult clients. There are no kids bikes in the shop. The guys there really seem like craftsman. I e-mailed the owner and we traded some messages. Then I went into the shop and spoke to one of the mechanics.

I'm having a 36 spoke wheel built. Velocity Synergy OC rims, Double Butted Spokes, Shimano 105 Hub. I'll get it this week. The other thing we did was have them de-tention all of the spokes on the 'old' rear wheel, replace the bad spoke, and re-tention the spokes again. He said that before he retentioned the spoke, the spokes were much tighter than he prefers them to be, which may have accounted for the spoke breakage.

I rode 30 miles on the repaired wheel without a problem, but then again, I didn't push it too hard. I didn't get out of the saddle to pedal at all. I wanted to play it safe until I get the new wheel.

Hopefully now I'll have a solid rear wheel and a sound spare. I'll get the front done when I have some extra money, but right now I'm not in a hurry.

bud16415

Sounds like a great plan. I think you will like that new wheel and feel safer.

Mr. Beanz

Curious why you didn't go with a Deep V at your weight? A Synergy is only 11 mm deep on one side and 18 on the other. I myself have had a ton of problems with box profile type rims over the years. FTR, that was way before I ever started doing hills or riding long miles.


Some riders claim Deep V's are too heavy. I put one on Gina's bike and she likes it. Says the 30 mm profile makes it plenty stiff and responsive unlike the wimpy rims that were on it before (Bontrager Race Lite). I asked her if the rim felt too heavy (as I heard plenty of clydes complain about rim weight) but she said no, feels fast and rolls well.

Just curious as the V is known for strength and you weigh 288.

Drew Eckhardt 

Don't use that shop for wheel work again.

1. He's wrong. Too much spoke tension will eventually cause fatigue cracks in the rim bed but isn't going to hurt the spokes. Wheel building machines don't get things tight enough which is what leads to nipples unscrewing and the wheels go out of true. Decreasing tension from that point made problems more likely for you.

2. _ALL_ of the remaining original spokes in that side of the wheel are about at the same point in their fatigue life as the originals and are going to fail too. As long as the wheel was de-tensioned it wouldn't have cost you any more in labor to replace those at the same time.

Not relevant. With the correct repair you'd have had no problems after 3,000 or 30,000 miles which do involve a significant number of stress cycles.

Doohickie

I'm not quite as heavy as the OP, but I replaced my original wheels with 36-spoke, low-end LBS replacement wheels (I think about $120 for the set) and they've held up pretty well. I prefer 36 spoke wheels and wouldn't go below 32 myself.

Pamestique 

I heard new CK hubs will be sans bees... not certain why; I love the noise.

I am a fan of custom wheels and have them built for all my bikes. Pretty much I know if nothing else I need to replace spokes. Just someting us biggest folks have to deal with. It is good money spent and the wheels should be bomb proof after. I have a pair of custom wheels, yes I spent alot of money on, but I've had them many years on several bikes and most likely they will outlive me.

sstorkel

Perhaps the OP wanted to mount a wider tire than the Deep V could reasonably handle? The Deep V is only 19mm wide while the Synergy OC is 23mm. The off-center drilling also leads to spoke tension that's significantly more even across the drive and non-drive sides of a rear wheel. I tend to think this will lead to longer wheel/spoke life. I used the Synergy OC for the front and rear wheels on my touring bike and have been pretty impressed so far...

sstorkel

The new R45 road hubs have fewer engagement points on the internal RingDrive than the MTB hubs (45 vs 72, IIRC). This is supposed to make them quieter, though perhaps not silent?

Drew Eckhardt 

There's also the Chukker which is essentially a 23mm wide Deep V.

Mr. Beanz

Could bd but he is ridinga Giant Defy 2 equipped with 23's. If the spacing between tire and stays is anything like my Lemonds, Madone or Cannondale, I don't think it will handle any more than a 700x25. The 25 was rubbing the paint from the frames on my Lemonds.

The Deep V's handle 700X28's just fine on our tandem and I know I can't fit a 28 on any of my roadies. Does the Defy 2 have more clearance for wider tires, or even a 28?

szewczykm

I'm riding with 25's. I haven't considered changing tire size yet.

The shop owner, for whom I have great respect, recommended them. The wheels I'm buying are the same as are on his touring bike. I like the idea of the OC's. We'll see how it goes.

sstorkel

Makes sense to me! The V-shaped profile of the Deep V makes the rim very strong. More Clydes seem to have problems with spokes than rims, however. The more uniform spoke tension created by the off-center drilling on the Synergy OC may end up being more beneficial to a Clyde than a stronger rim...

mcrow

So far my 36 spoke on 26" rim wheels are holding up nicely on my MTB. It came stock with them and I've done some off roading with it and no problems to this point. I'm sure if it was a narrower rim I'd probably have to worry more.

Mr. Beanz

Makes sense to me too but as far as spokes being the problem for most clydes, I'd say that has to do more with poor maintenance, shotty builds by unskilled shop builder, and cheap machine built wheels that haven't had any kind of skilled adjustments. I've put some pretty good stress on my Deep V's and only had to do one "minor" truing at 13,000 miles with an end result of 20,000+ before the brake surface wore out, wheel still true. I'd bet that has more to do with the quality of the build rather than center or off center drilling aspect.

I'd be very interested in reading your 2,000-3,000 mile ride report since I haven't seen any first hand in the clyde forum. Heck, if it's good, I just might build one for my roadie seeing it should be lighter and maybe a softer ride.

Shimagnolo

I have Synergy O/C's on the rear of two bikes, and Aerohead O/C on the rear of another.
You can use spokecalc.xls to see the tension difference it makes.
I swear by them.

Mr. Beanz

Thanks. I've always wondered about the OC's. I think the softness of a box size/type rim would make for a smoother ride than the V. If anything for Gina's roadie.

sstorkel

I probably have 2,500-3,000 miles on the Synergy OC wheelset that I built for my touring bike. Used the OC rim front and rear (since I'm running a front disc brake), Shimano XTR hubs, 32 DT Swiss Competition (2.0/1.8mm) double-butted spokes, and brass nipples. I've mounted Vittoria Randonneur Hyper or Randonneur Pro tires in 700x32 and 700x35 sizes. Most of my riding has been on paved roads and paths, including a 500-mile trip from SF to LA, but I've also done a small amount of riding on gravel and dirt roads. So far, the wheels have been very reliable. I did need to do a small amount of truing of the front wheel around the 2000-mile mark, but that has been the first and only maintenance that the wheels needed. Even then the wheel was within about a millimeter of true, which most people would consider perfectly acceptable.

Mr. Beanz

Ah thanks! May be a wheel looking at for future builds. I'm sure a true and tension check at the 2000 mark will give it many more years of happiness.