dealing with pace on group rides
12-12-12, 11:03 PM
#26
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The larger clubs have a big variety of rides and will make it easy to become a ride leader. You would be able to post your ride on their website which is an invitation for others to join. You would need to be up front in the posting about a longish lunch stop (although 30 minutes is reasonable on a casual ride). A regroup every 45 minutes or so is reasonable and casual (slower) rides won't "launch" from the regroup site the second the last rider appears, but the pace you list for the ride should be one where you're not the last rider up a hill unless your the sweep.
Pacelines: The ride you discussed initially isn't one I'd expect to feature a paceline. Most of the riders won't be very experienced given the pace and/or are casual riders who have little interest in a paceline. Pacelines comprised of inexperienced riders are to be avoided (IMO); If you're on a faster ride you can learn a bit from the back, but you would want to find a ride with a leader interesting in providing some instruction.
Rest Breaks: I would try to shorten your rest breaks and stretch them out a bit. On a shorter ride, let's say 20-25 miles, set a goal of doing the ride non-stop. Stop at the top of a hill if the need is strong, but just for a few minutes to put a foot down and take a few swallows of water. Generally, there's no need to stop at the top of a hill as you can rest on the way down; come up with a reward other than stopping such as a few bites of a Clif bar.
Pacelines: The ride you discussed initially isn't one I'd expect to feature a paceline. Most of the riders won't be very experienced given the pace and/or are casual riders who have little interest in a paceline. Pacelines comprised of inexperienced riders are to be avoided (IMO); If you're on a faster ride you can learn a bit from the back, but you would want to find a ride with a leader interesting in providing some instruction.
Rest Breaks: I would try to shorten your rest breaks and stretch them out a bit. On a shorter ride, let's say 20-25 miles, set a goal of doing the ride non-stop. Stop at the top of a hill if the need is strong, but just for a few minutes to put a foot down and take a few swallows of water. Generally, there's no need to stop at the top of a hill as you can rest on the way down; come up with a reward other than stopping such as a few bites of a Clif bar.
12-12-12, 11:34 PM
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I have one group i ride with that is comfortable, with people at my pace. I just get bored with the same weekly ride. They arent too adventurous with new routes. In fact as you would expect when fast riders show up they usually dont come back and sometimes they ride off in the distance and we never see them again.
The comment about about "redlining" stricks a chord with me, that is what happened to me on my 54 mile ride SUn. I was riding faster than my comfortable pace for quite a whole to keep up with the person in front (who was the paceliner i guess, assistant to the leader who was further behind at that point) but then when we hit the hills later on in the ride I couldnt maintain that pace and then on the way back i had "redlined" and was exhausted.
About my weight, at 186 at 5'9 i figure i can drop another 30 pounds. I hvae been down that low but years ago. I might have some more muscle weight now from biking but i think it is safe to say i could drop 20 pounds and be more fit and lighter. Some of the fast ride leaders i see are very slim and obviously if i am 20-30 pounds heaver that will make it hard for me to keep their pace oarticularly up hills but downhills as you know i would have an advantage.
Club v. recreational rides-- most of the regular attendees of my usual slow group think it is odd when we do our 40 mile ride including some hills starting Sun morning, when some of the people dont want to make the stop for lunch we usually do. People give various reasons-- eating in the middle of the ride gives them muscle aches, upset their stomaches, or they just dont have the time. Most of the regular attendees make a lunch stop We dont time, when are done eating and talking and have paid the bill we resume biking. So i find it odd when i do other rides also starting on a weekend morning and they dont want to make ANY stops for lunch or rest, but from what some people say on here that is the norm for club rides.
Theres one group out here that does a lot of rides at night. I have been on a few rides, they have diff leaders so they are all diff. So are the ones i have tried are either too fast OR they make TOO long stops where some of them seem to engage in imbibing certain substances either alcohol or pot and they make announcements ie warning "we're not going to make a stop at a liqour store so make sure you bring what you need". I tried 2-3 of those rides but i dont want to do the partying and got bored sitting around waiting for the group to get back on their bikes and continue to the next stop (they may stop at one location for an hour or two at night ie a park with a nearby liqour store. Another kind of ride i have seen is a ride of maybe 10 miles or less to go drink beer at a brewery or pub, and back. So those dont interest me either.
The comment about about "redlining" stricks a chord with me, that is what happened to me on my 54 mile ride SUn. I was riding faster than my comfortable pace for quite a whole to keep up with the person in front (who was the paceliner i guess, assistant to the leader who was further behind at that point) but then when we hit the hills later on in the ride I couldnt maintain that pace and then on the way back i had "redlined" and was exhausted.
About my weight, at 186 at 5'9 i figure i can drop another 30 pounds. I hvae been down that low but years ago. I might have some more muscle weight now from biking but i think it is safe to say i could drop 20 pounds and be more fit and lighter. Some of the fast ride leaders i see are very slim and obviously if i am 20-30 pounds heaver that will make it hard for me to keep their pace oarticularly up hills but downhills as you know i would have an advantage.
Club v. recreational rides-- most of the regular attendees of my usual slow group think it is odd when we do our 40 mile ride including some hills starting Sun morning, when some of the people dont want to make the stop for lunch we usually do. People give various reasons-- eating in the middle of the ride gives them muscle aches, upset their stomaches, or they just dont have the time. Most of the regular attendees make a lunch stop We dont time, when are done eating and talking and have paid the bill we resume biking. So i find it odd when i do other rides also starting on a weekend morning and they dont want to make ANY stops for lunch or rest, but from what some people say on here that is the norm for club rides.
Theres one group out here that does a lot of rides at night. I have been on a few rides, they have diff leaders so they are all diff. So are the ones i have tried are either too fast OR they make TOO long stops where some of them seem to engage in imbibing certain substances either alcohol or pot and they make announcements ie warning "we're not going to make a stop at a liqour store so make sure you bring what you need". I tried 2-3 of those rides but i dont want to do the partying and got bored sitting around waiting for the group to get back on their bikes and continue to the next stop (they may stop at one location for an hour or two at night ie a park with a nearby liqour store. Another kind of ride i have seen is a ride of maybe 10 miles or less to go drink beer at a brewery or pub, and back. So those dont interest me either.
12-13-12, 12:05 AM
#28
SuperGimp
Gary, I guess the fundamental question is... do you want to ride faster or do you want to stay at your current pace?
If you want to stay at your current pace, your current group (which you sort of labeled "boring") is probably where you'll be. If you want to ride with faster groups, then by all means, work on that and I'm sure you'll find plenty of people to encourage you.
Personally, a 50 mile ride warrants about a 5 min. break to munch on a clif bar and refill my bottles. 2000 feet over 50 miles really is pretty flat, although there may have been hills, it's largely pretty restrained.
And heck, maybe the bike IS a factor! It depends on the 80s bike of course, there were some gems.
Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize but if you're interested in breaking out of your comfort zone then by all means - go for it.
If you want to stay at your current pace, your current group (which you sort of labeled "boring") is probably where you'll be. If you want to ride with faster groups, then by all means, work on that and I'm sure you'll find plenty of people to encourage you.
Personally, a 50 mile ride warrants about a 5 min. break to munch on a clif bar and refill my bottles. 2000 feet over 50 miles really is pretty flat, although there may have been hills, it's largely pretty restrained.
And heck, maybe the bike IS a factor! It depends on the 80s bike of course, there were some gems.
Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize but if you're interested in breaking out of your comfort zone then by all means - go for it.
12-13-12, 12:14 PM
#29
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Mantra #1: Ride Your Ride.
Mantra #2: Don't expect anybody else to Ride Your Ride. They have their own ride to do.
The best way to get faster on hills is to ride hills. Don't just do it in the group rides: seek out the hills on your solo rides, and do repeats (ride up, then down the same hill or series of hills). Don't think of the downhill as the reward - think of the UPHILL as the reward, because it's the uphills that are going to make you a better hill climber.
By the way, I applaud your attitude about not worrying about getting dropped.
You also have to understand that in group rides, the first 1/3 of the ride, people are often holding back. If you're going all out to keep up with the group, then get dropped halfway, see if you can find a slower group where you're riding comfortably until the ride is more than half done. You'll still get dropped, but you'll have more time riding with the group, and you might even get a chance to take a pull or two.
Mantra #2: Don't expect anybody else to Ride Your Ride. They have their own ride to do.
The best way to get faster on hills is to ride hills. Don't just do it in the group rides: seek out the hills on your solo rides, and do repeats (ride up, then down the same hill or series of hills). Don't think of the downhill as the reward - think of the UPHILL as the reward, because it's the uphills that are going to make you a better hill climber.
By the way, I applaud your attitude about not worrying about getting dropped.
You also have to understand that in group rides, the first 1/3 of the ride, people are often holding back. If you're going all out to keep up with the group, then get dropped halfway, see if you can find a slower group where you're riding comfortably until the ride is more than half done. You'll still get dropped, but you'll have more time riding with the group, and you might even get a chance to take a pull or two.
12-13-12, 01:04 PM
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I remember reading an earlier post from the OP saying he was slow, old (in the 40's???
) and riding a steel bike. I believe it was his post about being last on a Solvang ride. In the post he says he was not fast and did not have any intentions of putting any effort into increasing his speed. He made that very clear.
That is cool but why in the world would you go on a group ride and expect others to hold back for you, limit their ride, or change their ride plan for you if you have this attitude about working on speed?
You have 20 riders that have agol of riding fast, hard or trying to make gains. Doesn't seem that they owe the OP any consideration at all. I'm not being hard nose, just speaking the truth. If I ride with a rider that says they are slow and have no intentions of increasing speed while asking us to stop several times, longer stops etc, I'd say "hasta la vista baby".
) and riding a steel bike. I believe it was his post about being last on a Solvang ride. In the post he says he was not fast and did not have any intentions of putting any effort into increasing his speed. He made that very clear.That is cool but why in the world would you go on a group ride and expect others to hold back for you, limit their ride, or change their ride plan for you if you have this attitude about working on speed?
You have 20 riders that have agol of riding fast, hard or trying to make gains. Doesn't seem that they owe the OP any consideration at all. I'm not being hard nose, just speaking the truth. If I ride with a rider that says they are slow and have no intentions of increasing speed while asking us to stop several times, longer stops etc, I'd say "hasta la vista baby".
12-13-12, 01:34 PM
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Where I live there is not much choice. Group rides turn out to be above my ability and I get dropped. Although we have re-groups as needed. MY abilities have improved steadily since going on them but I'm sure my 5K miles this year has also contributed as well. By the way I am 5'9" and currently weigh 242. Perhaps you are smaller framed than I but your pace would bore me to tears, I do not take breaks on my solo rides except to buy water as needed, and on supported rides the breaks are short to water and grab a snack. More time on the bike may help you so you do not feel the need to stop as much if that is what you want. However it really is about what you want. Make sure you enjoy what you are doing and find folks that want to share it with you. Maybe break away with a smaller group and change things up to add variety.
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12-13-12, 02:12 PM
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We're slackers now but you get what you put in when it comes to cycling. There is no reason the OP can't get faster other than his comments in the other thread, he doesn't chose to improve his pace. Again, that is cool, just don't expect others to follow your plan.
In return, both Gina and I can and have ridden faster than we do now, it's all about desire and effort.
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12-13-12, 03:19 PM
#34
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Gary, I guess the fundamental question is... do you want to ride faster or do you want to stay at your current pace?
If you want to stay at your current pace, your current group (which you sort of labeled "boring") is probably where you'll be. If you want to ride with faster groups, then by all means, work on that and I'm sure you'll find plenty of people to encourage you.
If you want to stay at your current pace, your current group (which you sort of labeled "boring") is probably where you'll be. If you want to ride with faster groups, then by all means, work on that and I'm sure you'll find plenty of people to encourage you.
The best way to get faster on hills is to ride hills. Don't just do it in the group rides: seek out the hills on your solo rides, and do repeats (ride up, then down the same hill or series of hills). Don't think of the downhill as the reward - think of the UPHILL as the reward, because it's the uphills that are going to make you a better hill climber.
Ding, Ding, Ding
The above
12-13-12, 04:55 PM
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Control is all up to the ride leader, really. You'll find that different ride leaders offer a different experience -- even if technically they're all advertising the same pace. Some people consider a B ride not getting any higher than 15 or so and some stick to the letter of the law, which says the flat pace is more like 17 or 18 mph, with 15 mph being the average with any climbs factored in. The most important thing and easiest way to handle this is ride with a leader and/or group whose style matches your own.
Most people won't be taking breaks nearly as long as you want because, honestly, if you're doing any kind of vigorous riding and take breaks of that length, your muscles start to contract and the return portion of the ride can be painful until everyone's warmed up again. Also, many people are like me and have family and other obligations on the weekends and have a limited amount of time for group rides. Also, it's likely that you're overestimating your total climbing, as that's something most people do. Even Garmin devices often report the actual gains a bit high because that's based on a barometric altimeter rather than measured elevations on existing maps.
Having said all that, most larger clubs offer something for everybody, including rides than are as much social as riding. Perhaps you should ask your club's ride captain, if there is one, what the best fit is for you. We've all been on rides where we've been dropped. Personally, I don't mind it that much, as I can always find my way home if I do, but if it bugs you, then aim a category lower than you want to ultimately achieve on the riding scale, concentrate on being at the front of that pack and go on some aggressive rides by yourself, where you'll use more energy from not having anyone to pull for you and you'll get there.
Most people won't be taking breaks nearly as long as you want because, honestly, if you're doing any kind of vigorous riding and take breaks of that length, your muscles start to contract and the return portion of the ride can be painful until everyone's warmed up again. Also, many people are like me and have family and other obligations on the weekends and have a limited amount of time for group rides. Also, it's likely that you're overestimating your total climbing, as that's something most people do. Even Garmin devices often report the actual gains a bit high because that's based on a barometric altimeter rather than measured elevations on existing maps.
Having said all that, most larger clubs offer something for everybody, including rides than are as much social as riding. Perhaps you should ask your club's ride captain, if there is one, what the best fit is for you. We've all been on rides where we've been dropped. Personally, I don't mind it that much, as I can always find my way home if I do, but if it bugs you, then aim a category lower than you want to ultimately achieve on the riding scale, concentrate on being at the front of that pack and go on some aggressive rides by yourself, where you'll use more energy from not having anyone to pull for you and you'll get there.
12-13-12, 09:33 PM
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HI responding to a comment by Mr Bean-- (thanks for your comments) I am not expecting faster riders to slow down for me on group rides that are organized that i join. If you read what ive said above, the rides where I try to control and set the pace are not big group rides but rides of maybe 2-4 bikers of people i have met on these group rides, then we talk about doing a route ourselves in a little group, to supplement what we do in the other groups or on our own. THen in the course of those discussions, and planning, that is when i bring up what i would like the pace to be based on my recent experiences. In this siuation I am organizing or co-organizing a ride of a few people and we're planning the details.
About my being last on the Solvang 63 yes that is right. My goal was to finish, that was my first 63 and I found it very hard so had a goal just to finish. I am not adverse to getting faster over time and doing longer harder hillier rides, but what i am adverse to is if some rider is prodding me to increase my pace much faster than i am comfortable with at present. I got from being unable to bike more than a few blocks up hill to doing that hilly 63 ride so i am making some progress. But yes when i talk to people who have organized rides going on, i ask what their anticipated pace will be and if it is faster than my anticipated pace by a quite a bit (ie a SART ride paced at 15mph+) I am going to tell the leader I doubt i can do that pace, i dont want you to prod me into doing that pace if we cant work out a way for me to do the ride at a pace that i anticipated to be more like 10-12mph average than i cant do the ride. In the case of SART in particular i wouldnt want to be by that golf course in Santa Ana where the muggings and shootings have happened after dark. So i plan ahead based on my anticipated pace and try to be smart about it. With the hills of Palos Verdes I know i want to be down from the winding hills with car traffic safely before it gets dark, with some time to spare (in case i get a flat for example or have other problems) so if i am going roundtrip over those hills i want to be proactive and plan a pace that i think i can do and then factor in some extra time for a safety margin. With the Solvang 63 my objective was to finish before they cut off the SAG support and i very barely accomplished that which i think was a big achievement for me.
About my being last on the Solvang 63 yes that is right. My goal was to finish, that was my first 63 and I found it very hard so had a goal just to finish. I am not adverse to getting faster over time and doing longer harder hillier rides, but what i am adverse to is if some rider is prodding me to increase my pace much faster than i am comfortable with at present. I got from being unable to bike more than a few blocks up hill to doing that hilly 63 ride so i am making some progress. But yes when i talk to people who have organized rides going on, i ask what their anticipated pace will be and if it is faster than my anticipated pace by a quite a bit (ie a SART ride paced at 15mph+) I am going to tell the leader I doubt i can do that pace, i dont want you to prod me into doing that pace if we cant work out a way for me to do the ride at a pace that i anticipated to be more like 10-12mph average than i cant do the ride. In the case of SART in particular i wouldnt want to be by that golf course in Santa Ana where the muggings and shootings have happened after dark. So i plan ahead based on my anticipated pace and try to be smart about it. With the hills of Palos Verdes I know i want to be down from the winding hills with car traffic safely before it gets dark, with some time to spare (in case i get a flat for example or have other problems) so if i am going roundtrip over those hills i want to be proactive and plan a pace that i think i can do and then factor in some extra time for a safety margin. With the Solvang 63 my objective was to finish before they cut off the SAG support and i very barely accomplished that which i think was a big achievement for me.
12-13-12, 09:41 PM
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About my bikes, i am riding 1980's good steel framed road bikes with triple crank setups. So while these arent the lightest modern bikes they are not my limiting factor in keeping up with most bikers i meet on group rides. Right now i have two bikes I am riding on these long rides and trying to get a decent average mph with other riders. One is a 1983 specialized sequoia sport touring bike and the other is a 1983 Trek 760 modified with a triple crank. The Trek is maybe 22 pounds as opposed to the Specialized that maybe is 24.5 pounds, i am not sure. I just very recently got the Trek set up with a triple hoping it would help me increase my average mph but i dont think the difference between the 2 bikes is significant in terms of my speed on them, but i am still working out the adjustment of the seat and stem on the Trek. I rode the trek on this 54 mile ride this past sunday and wasnt too comfortable i think due to adjustment. The Specialized i rode on Solvang 63 and I am very comfortable on that bike. The Specialized has 28mm Panaracer T-serve tires and they are comfortable. The Trek has old Specialized Armadillo 25mm tires and they are not comfortable, I am going to swap them out for T-Serve tires, i dont know if that will make a difference with my comfort on the bike or not. I didnt buy the Armadillos, the bike came with it and they are very old.
12-13-12, 10:15 PM
#38
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Gary, I applaud your self awareness. All I can add is, that if you're finding yourself mostly amongst people who are cycling for "fitness" you are likely to find people who will encourage you as much as they do themselves to attempt to improve and go faster. If you're content with your pace and don't desire to try and "push" the pace, I would recommend that you look for a few riding companions who are in it for more of the adventure and "touring" so to speak. Where the days ride is about the places you stop and the sights you see as much as it is about the riding itself. They're out there, you just gotta' look for them.
I hope you find a few riding companions with whom you share some great rides. And, if it makes you feel any better, the parking lot I ride out of on Saturdays frequently has as many as 50-60 riders in it, but, there are 4-5 of us who really enjoy riding with each other at the same pace and with the same mindset. I'm fit enough to ride with any of the others, it's just not as much fun. The message being, that finding your goldilocks partners can be a realative challenge.
I hope you find a few riding companions with whom you share some great rides. And, if it makes you feel any better, the parking lot I ride out of on Saturdays frequently has as many as 50-60 riders in it, but, there are 4-5 of us who really enjoy riding with each other at the same pace and with the same mindset. I'm fit enough to ride with any of the others, it's just not as much fun. The message being, that finding your goldilocks partners can be a realative challenge.
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12-13-12, 10:17 PM
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Hi I am not experienced on mapmyride.com but if you put in Dock 52, marina del rey, ca as starting point and you put in Point Fermin, San Pedro as ending point and you choose the route that goes along the coast, not bypasses the coast in any way, and you do that roundtrip, then you have the route i did on Sunday. It shows as having 1830 feet total elevation gain, and a highest elevation of about 500some odd feet starting at elevation of 50 feet. I consider this pretty hilly. what do you think? IF you look at the route you will see that for the first (and last) 10-12 miles or so it is flat, but after that it is hilly.
12-13-12, 10:42 PM
#40
Senior Member
Hi I am not experienced on mapmyride.com but if you put in Dock 52, marina del rey, ca as starting point and you put in Point Fermin, San Pedro as ending point and you choose the route that goes along the coast, not bypasses the coast in any way, and you do that roundtrip, then you have the route i did on Sunday. It shows as having 1830 feet total elevation gain, and a highest elevation of about 500some odd feet starting at elevation of 50 feet. I consider this pretty hilly. what do you think? IF you look at the route you will see that for the first (and last) 10-12 miles or so it is flat, but after that it is hilly.
Given the numbers you've mentioned, an awful lot of folks (those that are avid cyclists) aren't going to consider that to be particularly hilly. If you would like an example of my hilly rides, here you are:
https://app.strava.com/activities/25252844
https://app.strava.com/activities/27388231
If you're after improving, but, just don't want to be pushed into it. Keep doing what you've been up to. Go for rides. Challenge yourself. And, don't feel bad about declaring those rides that you're not comfortable doing. As your fitness improves you will find that your group of acceptable riding partners grows. And, then, if you continue to focus on improvement and speed it will eventually start to shrink again. But, that's probably a few years off.
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12-13-12, 11:02 PM
#41
SuperGimp
Gary, keep in mind that those route planning websites tend to overstate the hilliness by about 50% and it's just the way they calculate things.
As an example, here's a 50 mile ride I did in September. The route planned version here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1674466
The actual results here: https://app.strava.com/activities/23645429
It's the exact same route at both, but the strava elevation was measured with an altimeter on my bike (garmin) as opposed to calculated from a map.
As an example, here's a 50 mile ride I did in September. The route planned version here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1674466
The actual results here: https://app.strava.com/activities/23645429
It's the exact same route at both, but the strava elevation was measured with an altimeter on my bike (garmin) as opposed to calculated from a map.
12-14-12, 08:45 AM
#42
Senior Member
Gary, keep in mind that those route planning websites tend to overstate the hilliness by about 50% and it's just the way they calculate things.
As an example, here's a 50 mile ride I did in September. The route planned version here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1674466
The actual results here: https://app.strava.com/activities/23645429
It's the exact same route at both, but the strava elevation was measured with an altimeter on my bike (garmin) as opposed to calculated from a map.
As an example, here's a 50 mile ride I did in September. The route planned version here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1674466
The actual results here: https://app.strava.com/activities/23645429
It's the exact same route at both, but the strava elevation was measured with an altimeter on my bike (garmin) as opposed to calculated from a map.
I see the problem here Trojan - the ocean is on the left as you look North. That just ain't right.
12-14-12, 08:58 AM
#43
Senior Member
Gary - can we ask how many miles you have in a saddle since you started back riding?
I know for myself it wasn't until I had many thousands of miles on the bike (since July of 2011) that I thought about going faster.
Do I still get dropped on rides?
You bet, got dropped on a flat 35 mile with 1500' gain ride earlier in the month. Got back to the parking lot in 1 hour and 54 minutes shaking my head. Really? Average 18+ mph and get dropped. Killing me but I knew it would happen. All the guys I was riding with are CAT4 and up.
I think that everyone who's posted has encouraged you to push yourself if you want to be faster.
As our esteemed collegue Mr. Beanz put it...
... it's all about desire and effort.
Doesn't matter if it's cycling, tidly winks or archery
I know for myself it wasn't until I had many thousands of miles on the bike (since July of 2011) that I thought about going faster.
Do I still get dropped on rides?
You bet, got dropped on a flat 35 mile with 1500' gain ride earlier in the month. Got back to the parking lot in 1 hour and 54 minutes shaking my head. Really? Average 18+ mph and get dropped. Killing me but I knew it would happen. All the guys I was riding with are CAT4 and up.
I think that everyone who's posted has encouraged you to push yourself if you want to be faster.
As our esteemed collegue Mr. Beanz put it...
... it's all about desire and effort.
Doesn't matter if it's cycling, tidly winks or archery
12-14-12, 09:48 AM
#44
Climbers Apprentice
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I was staying with my buddy this week who got me into running. he is one of those fast skinny types. I was running a few nights and would come back to his house and ***** about being slow. I am slow by his standards, or by most people who run, but he kept reminding me....this time last year, I couldn't make it around his block without stopping a few times. This time I ran 3.33 miles a night with times around 36 minutes. Thats still slow, but a hell of a lot faster than last year, and I am not ready to die when I get home.
You have excellent advice in this thread. My advice is quit trying to categorize yourself, quit trying to rank, or compare, or say hilly or flat. Get your but on the bike and ride, push harder, come home wiped out a few times. Do it again, go when its cold, go when its hot, just go. you want to get better, it requires work, hard work, and its not easy or fast.
BUT it does happen however slowly. I seriously doubt I ever ride with the A group, but I bet I hang in the lead pack on our B group rides this summer, or die trying.
You have excellent advice in this thread. My advice is quit trying to categorize yourself, quit trying to rank, or compare, or say hilly or flat. Get your but on the bike and ride, push harder, come home wiped out a few times. Do it again, go when its cold, go when its hot, just go. you want to get better, it requires work, hard work, and its not easy or fast.
BUT it does happen however slowly. I seriously doubt I ever ride with the A group, but I bet I hang in the lead pack on our B group rides this summer, or die trying.
12-14-12, 10:01 AM
#45
Senior Member
I was staying with my buddy this week who got me into running. he is one of those fast skinny types. I was running a few nights and would come back to his house and ***** about being slow. I am slow by his standards, or by most people who run, but he kept reminding me....this time last year, I couldn't make it around his block without stopping a few times. This time I ran 3.33 miles a night with times around 36 minutes. Thats still slow, but a hell of a lot faster than last year, and I am not ready to die when I get home.
You have excellent advice in this thread. My advice is quit trying to categorize yourself, quit trying to rank, or compare, or say hilly or flat. Get your but on the bike and ride, push harder, come home wiped out a few times. Do it again, go when its cold, go when its hot, just go. you want to get better, it requires work, hard work, and its not easy or fast.
BUT it does happen however slowly. I seriously doubt I ever ride with the A group, but I bet I hang in the lead pack on our B group rides this summer, or die trying.
You have excellent advice in this thread. My advice is quit trying to categorize yourself, quit trying to rank, or compare, or say hilly or flat. Get your but on the bike and ride, push harder, come home wiped out a few times. Do it again, go when its cold, go when its hot, just go. you want to get better, it requires work, hard work, and its not easy or fast.
BUT it does happen however slowly. I seriously doubt I ever ride with the A group, but I bet I hang in the lead pack on our B group rides this summer, or die trying.
Good advice about not trying to compare, categorize. I know I do it to myself all the time.
My daughters father in law runs sub 9 min miles and did a marathon in 5 hrs. Being an old, fat, short type I doubt I'll ever get there but I'll keep trying.
12-14-12, 02:59 PM
#46
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Someone asked about my miles-- I started riding in May 2011 and couldnt finish 1/3 a mill if it was uphill. I worked up to an average of 75-100 miles a week with a long group ride of 35 miles once a week. Since then I have fallen into a pattern of not riding at all during the week but do a long ride once a week of 50-60 miles, with some hills ie total elevation 1850 but maybe 30-35 of the miles are almost flat so the elevation increases are somewhat worse than one might think if they were averaged out over the entire ride.
Most of the comments to me here is advice on how to increase my pace and get more fit.
Most of the advice I was looking for is the opposite-- how to respond to faster riders that i talk to about riding together who are prodding me to ride faster than I am comfortable with now and who are calling me controlling and pessimistic if I try to plan a ride with 2-3 other people at my current pace (as per my bike computer) on similar rides in recent past. Basically I would like assurance that it is not unduly controlling or negative to want to plan rides with 2-3 other riders at the current pace of my most recent rides. Instead most of the comments i have received here is how slow I am, how much I could and should improve, how what I think are hills are really not so hilly, and the benefits of working harder to get faster.
This is surprising to me becuase I expected that there would be some very overweight people here working to get fit who would be barely over to ride over a 10mph on a flat route, for more than a few miles (this is how many of us start out) but the people responding to me are seemingly all more advanced and fit than me and are not too supportive of what I described as my current pace.
So it basically seems more of the same of what i hear from some local more fit and mostly thinner riders (although most of you are probably heavier than me, since i am 186 and on a clydesdale discussion) but it seems most of you have been riding longer and harder than me and are much faster.
Personally I dont have much desire to increase my speed very much very soon, I am just looking for more and longer rides at my current pace to keep up my biking and add more rides with other people.
There seems to be a built in bias here to constantly increase one's speed whereas I am much less concerned with my speed than finding comfortable rides and riders at my current pace that i can plan to more rides with, so i can keep up the slow and continuous progress i have been making.
By slowly and gradually increasing the distance of my rides and the hilly nature, and the weekly miles (though I have slumped in total miles per week but have lengthened my long ride and added hills to it.) The reason I want to find other people to ride with at my pace is to avoid a slump in not doing more biking.
The long ride i mostly do now with a group is the same ride week after week, I am looking for people to ride on different routes, at different days/times of the week, but at the same pace.
Most of the comments to me here is advice on how to increase my pace and get more fit.
Most of the advice I was looking for is the opposite-- how to respond to faster riders that i talk to about riding together who are prodding me to ride faster than I am comfortable with now and who are calling me controlling and pessimistic if I try to plan a ride with 2-3 other people at my current pace (as per my bike computer) on similar rides in recent past. Basically I would like assurance that it is not unduly controlling or negative to want to plan rides with 2-3 other riders at the current pace of my most recent rides. Instead most of the comments i have received here is how slow I am, how much I could and should improve, how what I think are hills are really not so hilly, and the benefits of working harder to get faster.
This is surprising to me becuase I expected that there would be some very overweight people here working to get fit who would be barely over to ride over a 10mph on a flat route, for more than a few miles (this is how many of us start out) but the people responding to me are seemingly all more advanced and fit than me and are not too supportive of what I described as my current pace.
So it basically seems more of the same of what i hear from some local more fit and mostly thinner riders (although most of you are probably heavier than me, since i am 186 and on a clydesdale discussion) but it seems most of you have been riding longer and harder than me and are much faster.
Personally I dont have much desire to increase my speed very much very soon, I am just looking for more and longer rides at my current pace to keep up my biking and add more rides with other people.
There seems to be a built in bias here to constantly increase one's speed whereas I am much less concerned with my speed than finding comfortable rides and riders at my current pace that i can plan to more rides with, so i can keep up the slow and continuous progress i have been making.
By slowly and gradually increasing the distance of my rides and the hilly nature, and the weekly miles (though I have slumped in total miles per week but have lengthened my long ride and added hills to it.) The reason I want to find other people to ride with at my pace is to avoid a slump in not doing more biking.
The long ride i mostly do now with a group is the same ride week after week, I am looking for people to ride on different routes, at different days/times of the week, but at the same pace.
12-14-12, 03:30 PM
#47
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Someone asked about my miles-- I started riding in May 2011 and couldnt finish 1/3 a mill if it was uphill. I worked up to an average of 75-100 miles a week with a long group ride of 35 miles once a week. Since then I have fallen into a pattern of not riding at all during the week but do a long ride once a week of 50-60 miles, with some hills ie total elevation 1850 but maybe 30-35 of the miles are almost flat so the elevation increases are somewhat worse than one might think if they were averaged out over the entire ride.
Most of the comments to me here is advice on how to increase my pace and get more fit.
Most of the advice I was looking for is the opposite-- how to respond to faster riders that i talk to about riding together who are prodding me to ride faster than I am comfortable with now and who are calling me controlling and pessimistic if I try to plan a ride with 2-3 other people at my current pace (as per my bike computer) on similar rides in recent past. Basically I would like assurance that it is not unduly controlling or negative to want to plan rides with 2-3 other riders at the current pace of my most recent rides. Instead most of the comments i have received here is how slow I am, how much I could and should improve, how what I think are hills are really not so hilly, and the benefits of working harder to get faster.
This is surprising to me becuase I expected that there would be some very overweight people here working to get fit who would be barely over to ride over a 10mph on a flat route, for more than a few miles (this is how many of us start out) but the people responding to me are seemingly all more advanced and fit than me and are not too supportive of what I described as my current pace.
So it basically seems more of the same of what i hear from some local more fit and mostly thinner riders (although most of you are probably heavier than me, since i am 186 and on a clydesdale discussion) but it seems most of you have been riding longer and harder than me and are much faster.
Personally I dont have much desire to increase my speed very much very soon, I am just looking for more and longer rides at my current pace to keep up my biking and add more rides with other people.
There seems to be a built in bias here to constantly increase one's speed whereas I am much less concerned with my speed than finding comfortable rides and riders at my current pace that i can plan to more rides with, so i can keep up the slow and continuous progress i have been making.
By slowly and gradually increasing the distance of my rides and the hilly nature, and the weekly miles (though I have slumped in total miles per week but have lengthened my long ride and added hills to it.) The reason I want to find other people to ride with at my pace is to avoid a slump in not doing more biking.
The long ride i mostly do now with a group is the same ride week after week, I am looking for people to ride on different routes, at different days/times of the week, but at the same pace.
Most of the comments to me here is advice on how to increase my pace and get more fit.
Most of the advice I was looking for is the opposite-- how to respond to faster riders that i talk to about riding together who are prodding me to ride faster than I am comfortable with now and who are calling me controlling and pessimistic if I try to plan a ride with 2-3 other people at my current pace (as per my bike computer) on similar rides in recent past. Basically I would like assurance that it is not unduly controlling or negative to want to plan rides with 2-3 other riders at the current pace of my most recent rides. Instead most of the comments i have received here is how slow I am, how much I could and should improve, how what I think are hills are really not so hilly, and the benefits of working harder to get faster.
This is surprising to me becuase I expected that there would be some very overweight people here working to get fit who would be barely over to ride over a 10mph on a flat route, for more than a few miles (this is how many of us start out) but the people responding to me are seemingly all more advanced and fit than me and are not too supportive of what I described as my current pace.
So it basically seems more of the same of what i hear from some local more fit and mostly thinner riders (although most of you are probably heavier than me, since i am 186 and on a clydesdale discussion) but it seems most of you have been riding longer and harder than me and are much faster.
Personally I dont have much desire to increase my speed very much very soon, I am just looking for more and longer rides at my current pace to keep up my biking and add more rides with other people.
There seems to be a built in bias here to constantly increase one's speed whereas I am much less concerned with my speed than finding comfortable rides and riders at my current pace that i can plan to more rides with, so i can keep up the slow and continuous progress i have been making.
By slowly and gradually increasing the distance of my rides and the hilly nature, and the weekly miles (though I have slumped in total miles per week but have lengthened my long ride and added hills to it.) The reason I want to find other people to ride with at my pace is to avoid a slump in not doing more biking.
The long ride i mostly do now with a group is the same ride week after week, I am looking for people to ride on different routes, at different days/times of the week, but at the same pace.
Also, I think it's fine that you don't want to increase your speed too much too soon. Everyone else has made the point that you need to push yourself if you want to improve, and it can be tough to do that solo. Anyway, I'm curious about your comments on getting caught in the darkness and all that...what time are you starting your rides that a 50 mile weekend ride will get you caught at night? Even if you take your time, 50 miles will take what, 4 hours? Unless you're starting AFTER lunch, you're not going to get caught in the dark...I don't want to say you're making excuses, but seriously, riding in the dark won't kill you, I do it every day. Maybe instead of this meticulous planning to make sure you're home before dark, get some lights and reflective gear and remove that as a possible excuse to not get out there.
12-14-12, 03:39 PM
#48
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Most of the advice I was looking for is the opposite-- how to respond to faster riders that i talk to about riding together who are prodding me to ride faster than I am comfortable with now and who are calling me controlling and pessimistic if I try to plan a ride with 2-3 other people at my current pace (as per my bike computer) on similar rides in recent past.
I know many people who use a GPS device and analyze all their numbers, post them to Strava and for them that is part of the fun. BF's own Doohickie, however, does not have a bike computer on any of his bikes. He feels he would obsess on the numbers and it would take away from simply enjoying the ride. I'm kindof in the middle. I have a basic bike computer to know how fast and how far I have gone, but I don't want detailed analysis. The point is everybody is different in their approach. The important thing is to enjoy it., If you enjoy it, you will ride more. If you don't then it becomes a chore.
12-14-12, 03:52 PM
#49
Senior Member
Sorry, Gary, if I gave you the impression that you should speed up. If that's something you don't want, that's fine by me. (This reminds me a bit of a funny observation I have: I ride with both racers and club/rec riders. The rec riders seem to have this opinion that racers look down on them if they're not as fast. Riding with the racers I do, nothing could be further from the truth. Racers only care about one thing regarding other riders: don't crash us. That's all. They could care less what you wear, what bike you have, how fast you go.)
As for your dilemma: announce a ride you're organizing, state the pace and other guidelines. How do you respond when they say you can go faster? Shrug your shoulders, say, "Maybe, but right now, this is what I want to do."
As other ride organizers have discovered: you can't make anyone ride at a certain pace. You can only ask and encourage. If they won't? It's not worth it to lose sleep. It's a free country & they can do what they want. If they try to encourage you to go faster and you don't want to, don't. The upside? Less stress. More enjoyment. Downside? Maybe you ride alone for awhile. Keep doing it. Either they'll slow down & begin riding with you, or they'll stop coming to your ride. Then you can replace them with somebody else. Invite somebody new to the sport who maybe has the same pace as you.
As a friend says, "No drama."
As for your dilemma: announce a ride you're organizing, state the pace and other guidelines. How do you respond when they say you can go faster? Shrug your shoulders, say, "Maybe, but right now, this is what I want to do."
As other ride organizers have discovered: you can't make anyone ride at a certain pace. You can only ask and encourage. If they won't? It's not worth it to lose sleep. It's a free country & they can do what they want. If they try to encourage you to go faster and you don't want to, don't. The upside? Less stress. More enjoyment. Downside? Maybe you ride alone for awhile. Keep doing it. Either they'll slow down & begin riding with you, or they'll stop coming to your ride. Then you can replace them with somebody else. Invite somebody new to the sport who maybe has the same pace as you.
As a friend says, "No drama."
12-14-12, 05:22 PM
#50
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Gary, keep in mind that those route planning websites tend to overstate the hilliness by about 50% and it's just the way they calculate things.
As an example, here's a 50 mile ride I did in September. The route planned version here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1674466
The actual results here: https://app.strava.com/activities/23645429
It's the exact same route at both, but the strava elevation was measured with an altimeter on my bike (garmin) as opposed to calculated from a map.
As an example, here's a 50 mile ride I did in September. The route planned version here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1674466
The actual results here: https://app.strava.com/activities/23645429
It's the exact same route at both, but the strava elevation was measured with an altimeter on my bike (garmin) as opposed to calculated from a map.