Sixty Fiver

I have known my doctor for 15 years... our relationship is that of peers as before he was my doctor I worked in the medical field and he was one of the primary care providers to the clients I was caring for.

I don't practice a radical dietary plan... I just keep my carb levels lower than what is suggested and my already good numbers just got better. I probably won the genetic lottery as I have functioned well as a vegetarian, functioned well on higher carb diets, but have never felt so good as when I decided to lower the carbs in my diet and get back to a more ancestral way of eating.

With a chronic back problem I am often limited in how much activity I can participate in and this also affects the intensity of the activity... I have not worried about gaining weight and my energy levels have been excellent.

We do cook from scratch with whole ingredients and I do most of the cooking.

This has been most significant for my wife who has no thyroid and suffers from Celiac disease and over the past 4 years has also had major surgery and contracted pertussis which has a long recovery time (2 years is not uncommon) and as such has not been able to be as active and yet, she has lost 60 pounds since August which was the weight she gained after surgery that just would not go anywhere.

She feels great and by changing our diet her thyroid absorption is better, her vitamin absorption is better because of the increased fats and she has a higher restriction on carbs than me. When you have no natural thyroid, your metabolism and endocrine system are never right and insulin has a profound effect on metabolism.

By limiting carbs her insulin levels stay extremely stable (very important), by keeping them at or below the threshold where ketosis (fat burning kicks in) she has been able to shed the extra weight easily with no caloric restriction and no increase in physical activity.

She was never one to eat any kind of junk food, processed food, and have always enjoyed eating fresh and healthy foods.

Many of the folks who rail against a lower carb diet do not understand how our metabolisms work and to simple it up, we can burn fat or sugar but we can't burn them both at the same time.

Sugars are not created equal, fructose is metabolized in the liver and turned into fat while some fats are metabolized just as we metabolize glucose... the medium chain triglycerides in coconut oil are this type of fat.

If you are over-weight you need to enter into ketosis to burn fat and you can do this through glycogen depletion via exercise or fasting or reduce your carb intake to where ketosis becomes more of a steady state of being.

Human beings do not have to eat any carbohydrates to function, our bodies have the ability to produce glycogen on it's own.

If you are going to eat carbohydrates they should come from vegetables and nuts with a limited amount of fruit and this will vary by individual.

The problem with carbs is that they you make you crave more carbs because of insulin spikes and blood sugar swings... it is like burning paper.

If you are fat adapted you do not have insulin spikes and for most, there are no food cravings.

Besides my doctor I know other health care professionals, have worked in health care, and am married to a genius who studied biochemistry and cellular biology... she knows how things work and probably has a better understanding than most.

lopek77

Thank you. Good posting.

lenA

You make no sense. The thread is fine.

Ursa Minor

I'm sorry I triggered this guy. Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Charlie

lopek77

Don't worry. Some people just can't take others /different/ opinions very well. Too bad it's OP...pooping in her/his own crib.

lenA

I find everything about you unbearable.

howsteepisit

This would be Lopeks idea of tolerance and acceptance of differing ideas. All with no source of reliable dietetic information. Wow!

Sixty Fiver

A ketogenic diet has been used for therapeutic reasons for over 60 years and those people on long term ketogenic diets have not suffered ill effects.

I believe the confusion lies with those who do not understand the difference between ketosis, a process whereby the body metabolizes fats into ketones (which are used as energy) and keto-acidosis which is a condition that afflicts type 1 diabetics and alcoholics where an impaired or absent insulin response results in ketones and an excess of glucose in the bloodstream.

More confusion stems from those who equate a ketogenic diet as one being high in protein... a ketogenic diet replaces carbohydrates with fats (which do not have to be animal based) and limits protein as excessive protein can trigger glyconeogenesis which is a process where the body converts protein to glycogen in the absence of other fuels.

The increased consumption of processed foods and sugars, namely fructose, has increased the rates of diabetes and things like fatty liver disease among non alcoholics... fructose is metabolized by the liver and turned into fat and it gets put in way too many foods. Look at a cereal box these days and you will find that most have added fructose and many foods that don't need sugar have it added anyways because it is the hook that keeps you eating and buying more of whatever it is.

The consumption of fructose has soared in the past 4 decades and most of that comes in soft drinks and processed foods as it is a cheap sugar substitute when it is made from corn.

Soy consumption has also increased as it is added to many products... it is a powerful endocrine disruptor and can inhibit the absorption of nutrients in other foods. Those who have issues with estrogen levels need to limit and avoid products with soy as it disrupts this even further.

When I had my last series of blood / urine tests they ticked all the boxes as I wanted to get as much information as possible... my liver and kidneys are fine and I do not suffer from gout either.

Because we include organ meats in our diet (liver and heart) this provides essential vitamins and my neurologist remarked on what were exceptional B12 levels...I told him what my diet was and he had no objections as it is a diet that is also anti-inflammatory.

Grains can cause serious issues for celiacs but also cause lesser issues for those who do not have this diagnosis... I limit my grains to oatmeal and every once in a while I have some brown rice.

Wheat pasta now upsets my stomach and I used to be quite the pasta loving fiend... by removing it from my diet I have lost the tolerance I had for it.

When you live with someone who has no thyroid and cannot eat wheat / gluten because of celiac disease, and has experienced women's health issues where increased estrogen levels have caused further complications you get to see firsthand how what you eat can have serious effects on one's health.

Despite that my wife is still healthier than most of the people walking around as she has never had any vices, exercises, and really has to watch everything she eats.

If we look at heart disease, the rates have dropped since the 1960's and people like to cite this as a success but the rates are still considerably higher than they were in 1900. Some attribute this to people being more sedentary but you can be sedentary and not be overweight... if you are sedentary and fill your gob with crap you are going to have issues.

Exercise helps but it is not required for weight loss... it does not contribute as much as people think.

howsteepisit

good summary 65er. BTW its gluconeogenisis, the metabolic production of new glucose from proteins. I do have a degree in biochemistry also. In my experience with low carb diets, its really not a substantial issue, you have to eat one hell of a lot of protein to where gluconeogenisis kicks you out of ketosis.

lopek77

How about that? You happy now? You can do the same. I'm not a doctor and I base my opinion on what I hear and read. Follow this link to learn more All about Ketogenic diet

Or here some quickly found resources.

Ketogenic Diet


Bodybuilding.com - In Depth Look At Ketogenic Diets And Ketosis.


Ketogenic diet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If still not enough - I like what Sixty Fiver explained.

Next time please add to the topic instead of fighting here. I found it much more useful.

howsteepisit

Actually, I did not come onto this thread and call people foolish for following a low carbohydrate diet that results in dietary ketosis, you did. When I challenged you source of such criticism, you went off on a rant about back surgery, and the lack of the US mainstream establishment to solve back pain issues. Your "sources are a column about using a severe ketogenic diet for refractory epilepsy, which its effective to some degree. Then we get a body building column, and yes, while I believe bodybuilding is not healthy, is about reducing body fat to the lowest point possible for a competition, and once again ketogenic diets are effective for that goal, however unhealthy that may or may not be. Thens there is wikipedia, which we learn in college is not a reviewed source and is potentially not reliable. Ok so lets move on here. You stated that a low carb diet is foolish, and further hope that anyone who believes that a ketogenic diet is useful for weight loss is castigated by the other forumites.


By the way, as a former researcher in pharmacology, holder of a BA in biochemistry, BS in economics,and someone who in the past has lost significant weight using a very low calorie, low carbohydrate diet, medically supervised and Dr overseen, I have indeed a researched the topic. There is a lot out there, corroborated and not, but enough to say there is more than one side to the story, certainly more than your original that I posted above.

You sir, are a foolish and intolerant ass.

sstorkel

Is there a published study somewhere that supports this conclusion? How many people were involved?

Sixty Fiver

I must have tired fingers today... got my y and u crossed.

Sixty Fiver

Search epilepsy and ketogenic diets.

sstorkel

I know that ketogenic diets have been recommended for some, but not all, epileptics. I've yet to find any study where someone followed up to determine the long-term health implications of the diet. You keep talking like the data exists, so I wonder where it can be found? I see quite a few people throwing around anecdotal evidence about the benefits of this diet, but as far as I can determine nobody here has followed the diet for more than a few years nor can point to any scientific study that supports its benefits...

lopek77

Well done Mr. Perfect. You put that crap in my mouth and called me intolerant ass...Next time please don't do that if its not truth. Reading with understanding is not a hard thing to do...

Sixty Fiver

Some interesting research on fructose and how it might even be more complicated than we thought...

Fructose Metabolism More Complicated Than Was Thought -- ScienceDaily

Sixty Fiver

The bickering can stop any time.

howsteepisit

Reread post 85, I will no longer bicker

lopek77

I don't need to reread my own post...I was the one who wrote it...
It's about previous posts, and about high protein diet, and not low carbohydrates diet...
Story about back issues was really about different opinions of professionals in the same field...You missed the point...
Link I used is just that...one of many resources about that "diet"...
Link from Wikipedia explains why it's a "medical therapy" - I think you had issues with that also...
According to you - "potentially not reliable" pages of Wikipedia are more reliable to me than you, since there is many folks talking care of it. And if you have a problem with that article - go ahead and contribute and change it...
Your BA and BS is "potentially" a good knowledge and I hope they talked instead of providing written materials...You definitively have issues with reading with understanding.
Why am I explaining all of the above if you have BA and BS? That is kind of silly. And on the side not - you are not the only one who have such a rich academic experience...

Now...get over it and contribute to the topic...I'm sick and tired of trashing threads by this kind of pointless conversations.

Rowan

The problem is that the issues that arise from a diet like this don't manifest themselves in a couple of years. It takes a while for kidney issues, liver issues and gall bladder issues to emerge, along with other little nasties such as intestinal cancer.

I have never disagreed in the various threads on this and related subjects that overconsumption is the major dietary problem. But the solution is much simpler than promulgated time and again by the ketosis/low carb proponents. Reduce the portion sizes, and check the calorie counts and increase exercise levels.

There has been all along a thing called a balanced diet. It involves not just calories, but ensuring people have sufficient intakes of vitamins and minerals. Fruit and vegetables play a significant role in that balanced diet -- and the contain goodly amounts of carbs. Yep, fats are a part of the equation, along with protein.

But going all the way with one nutritional component isn't a solution to being fat. Going heavy protein or heavy fat is just as bad as going heavy carbs.

I also am really amused by people who attribute their weight loss to a particular diet fad... when there are so many other uncontrolled influences that have contributed to that weight loss.

With the problems that are emerging with high-protein diets in particular, let's all come back here in 10 years' time and see who has survived without any diet-related health issues.

lopek77

+1. Balanced diet is a way to go, unless some health issues requires other type of diet.
I lose a lot of weight and quick when riding a lot, while eating like a pig. I just don't count calories.
I also lose a lot of weight and pretty fast without​ exercising, just by eating right. Easy to digest meals, soups and no crappy highly processed products.
But since I love to try things, and even travel to other countries just to try local cuisine - I may happily stay in Clydesdale group...well...at least closer to 200 than to 250 ;-)

lenA

One of these days in the not so distant future, I'm going to be driving past some magnificent medical facility that rivals in grandeur any hotel on the Vegas strip and there is going to be a giant garish flashing sign out front proclaiming

We guarantee to find something wrong with you or you or your money back!!

This one is for you sstorkel :-)

























s

daviddavieboy

It is great diet x works for one and diet y works for another. My experience has been diets only work for a short time. My observation has been when your working method of eating/exercise becomes your 'lifestyle' then you will get long term results. I have only been trying to control my weight for 30 or so years and my success only came when I ate a full, healthy diet and exercised regularly-except for all u can eat pasta at the olive garden

I seem only to lose weight when I BURN more calories than I CONSUME, go figure right?

lenA

How can I live on 50 grams of carbs? If you serve this salad with a nice oil and vinegar dressing, it's only 14 grams

1 cup romaine 1 carb
1 cup spinach 1 carb
1/4 c shredded cabbage 2 carbs
1 stick celery, or about 1/4 cup sliced 1.5 carbs
1/4 cup chopped bell pepper, 2.5 carbs
1 small chopped tomato, or about 1/4 cup 4 carbs
1/2 small cucumber, or about 1/4 cup chopped, 2 carbs

Still leaves 36 for the day

one cup broccoli 4 net carbs
4 oz asparagus 2
10 sugar snaps 2.5

Well, you get the picture.......stay away from root crops, and other starchy veggies, and you can have your bunny food and eat it too, and get fiber, and micros