Willbird

I picked up a Wahoo TICKR last weekend, snagged it at the Apple store actually, then after that found out a Local Bike Store had them too.

Kind of neat, I decided to devote the month of August mostly to Zone 2 riding, which for me is 104-122 beats a minute. This feels like "riding slow" for the most part except hills, there I end up in my lowest gear which is 28 front and 26 rear, and there are a couple little steep hills that still take me above 122. Of course your heart rate lags behind your effort by 20 seconds or so it will take some practice to stay in that zone consistently.

A ride I was doing in just under 2 hours at 160-170 beats per minute takes 2-1/2 hours at 120 beats per minute right now.

I will run that 30 mile ride at 160 after a month of rides in the 120 zone and see if there was an improvement, there should be according to the experts :-).

Running at 120 beats makes it easier to concentrate on nice round pedal strokes, and building a faster smooth cadence too.

Bill

Willbird

Here is what Cyclemeter gives me from todays ride


....Zone.....................Range............................Miles Distance............Minutes Time.......
[TABLE="class: ab-stattable, width: 1304"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]Zone 1[/TD]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]87 - 104[/TD]
[TD]0.45[/TD]
[TD]4:40[/TD]
[TD]5.72[/TD]
[TD]17.49[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]98[/TD]
[TD]104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]Zone 2[/TD]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]104 - 122[/TD]
[TD]23.18[/TD]
[TD]1:44:48[/TD]
[TD]13.27[/TD]
[TD]23.14[/TD]
[TD]1298[/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]101[/TD]
[TD]116[/TD]
[TD]121[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]Zone 3[/TD]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]122 - 139[/TD]
[TD]7.86[/TD]
[TD]39:04[/TD]
[TD]12.07[/TD]
[TD]21.36[/TD]
[TD]536[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]125[/TD]
[TD]137[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #EEEEEE"]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]Zone 4[/TD]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]139 - 157[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0:00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]Zone 5[/TD]
[TD="class: ab-stattable-column-left, align: left"]157 - 174[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0:00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

ZoneHead

That's a heck of a workout! How many calories did that translate to?

Black wallnut 

You are saying you will do a month of only recovery rides? I would call that type of training building a base but you already have a base. Are you planning to increase the duration of your rides during this month?

Willbird

I guess I do not know :-)....maybe need to mix it up some :-) ? Read some stuff on a web page about this, will link it when I get home.

as for the calories wahoo came up with some insane number I know is incorrect :-). It said 1846...baloney hehe

linnefaulk

After you posted this this morning, I started looking up training with a HRM monitor since my Tickr will arrive tomorrow. I have only 3 months for a base and think I need some more since I really didn't do a proper base. I have been riding more in zone 3 (perceived, not measured) and zone 4 and my longer Saturday rides in zone 2.
I used to use a HRM back in the 90s but it was so much simpler without all the data collected at the end.

Willbird

And now I'm less sure than I was earlier. The basic theory I was relating is that training at 122 max in my case forces your body to become more efficient...and going back once a month or so and riding a known distance sort of line a TT will show progress.

Not so sure now, friend tells me 50 year olds should not ride at 160 beats a minute, but another thread on the road forum has guys in their 60's who ride with HR higher than that .

What I have been doing plainly is working, do not really think I could expect MORE than my results 90 days cutting weight , and coming up on 60 days riding.

I'm not buying that my daily ride that is hardly ever at 100% effort is putting me at risk for an impending heart explosion.

Plainly either the HRM is wrong, or my maximum heart rate is higher than the 171 that 220-age gives me.

Willbird

Heart rate monitor training for cyclists - BikeRadar

Here is the article I was talking about..........and he was talking about building base, which I pretty much have already done :-).

TrojanHorse

I don't think a month of zone 2 would be very interesting... matter of fact, I did a zone 2 ride on Monday to recover from a nice long ride on Sunday and made an effort to keep in Z2 (my garmin apparently thinks Z2 is lower than strava does, I need to look into that.)

Here's mine: Bike Ride Profile | recovery Monday near Brea | Times and Records | Strava

Mostly flat or flat adjacent with a few irritating hills mixed in, and it was HARD to keep my HR down on those hills. it was also hard to pedal that gently for an hour! I was largely bored out of my gourd but my legs appreciated the ride.

Calories consumed - 453. 13.2 miles, 14 mph average. I don't know if the formatting of the HR table will work but I tried keeping between 120 and 130 for the whole ride, with some excursions into the 130s on those pesky hills.

[TABLE="class: distribution-chart unstyled"]
[TR]
[TD]Z1[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Endurance[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]< 104[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 2:26 [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 4% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z2[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Moderate[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]104 - 138[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 54:08 [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 96% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z3[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Tempo[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]138 - 154[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 0s [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 0% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z4[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Threshold[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]154 - 171[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 0s [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 0% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z5[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Anaerobic[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]> 171[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 0s [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Compare and contrast to Sunday's 80 mile, 3400+ calorie ride, where I really went hard for the first 3 hours:
[TABLE="class: distribution-chart unstyled"]
[TR]
[TD]Z1[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Endurance[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]< 104[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 4:07 [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 1% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z2[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Moderate[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]104 - 138[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 49:32 [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 16% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z3[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Tempo[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]138 - 154[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 3:26:56 [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 66% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z4[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Threshold[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]154 - 171[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 55:01 [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 17% [/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Z5[/TD]
[TD="class: name"]Anaerobic[/TD]
[TD="class: range"]> 171[/TD]
[TD="class: time"] 0s [/TD]
[TD="class: percent"] 0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Willbird

I suppose learning to ride in zone 2 is a worthwhile skill. And there are other things one can work on while doing so, like pedal stroke and increasing cadence. But ya doing a month of it after I re-read the article was a "base building" technique.

My normal riding is not structured other than attacking some pesky small but steep hills and trying to have more gears left this week than I did next week. I need to learn to do some interval training and work that in at least once a week :-).

But most importantly keep it fun and interesting, it is not a second job :-).

Bill

linnefaulk

I did read that building a base is boring. But so is learning scales on the piano.

Willbird

I have not found it boring YET :-).

Hate reading about runners that find running boring and more or less hate it so much they seek endless distractions to be able to endure it :-).

Did more of a "normal" ride today 90 minutes but spent some time adjusting saddle....threw in (3) three minute intervals up towards 160 beats per minute, with a 5 minute recovery between them, did one earlier to explore maximum heart rate a bit, it is 180 or more :-).

My natural tendancy apparently is to hover 130-135.....

mav52

I'm 61 5'11" 288lbs. I was speaking to my cardiologist during a routine checkup and he noted " You gain the most benefits and lessen the risks when you exercise in your ''target heart rate zone."

For me; 80-136 beats per minute 'Target Heart Rate Zone, 160 beats per minute Maximum Heart Rate, 100% numbers from the America Heart Assoc.
[h=4]Know Your Numbers[/h] The table below shows estimated target heart rates for different ages. In the age category closest to yours, read across to find your target heart rate. Your maximum heart rate is about 220 minus your age. The figures are averages, so use them as general guidelines.
[TABLE]
[TR="bgcolor: #e1f2e0"]
[TH="width: 211, align: center"]Age[/TH]
[TH="width: 379, align: center"]Target HR Zone 50-85%[/TH]
[TH="width: 379, align: center"]Average Maximum Heart Rate, 100%[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]20 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]100-170 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]200 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #f7f7f7"]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]30 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]95-162 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]190 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]35 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]93-157 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]185 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #f7f7f7"]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]40 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]90-153 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]180 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]45 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]88-149 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]175 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #f7f7f7"]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]50 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]85-145 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]170 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #f7f7f7"]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]55 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]83-140 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]165 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #f7f7f7"]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]60 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]80-136 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]160 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #f7f7f7"]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]65 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]78-132 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]155 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #f7f7f7"]
[TD="width: 211, align: center"]70 years[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]75-128 beats per minute[/TD]
[TD="width: 379, align: center"]150 beats per minute[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Target Heart Rates

Willbird

BUT, there are at least 5 formulas easily found for maximum heart rate, and each has it's flaws. The 220-age has been almost thoroughly debunked....heart rate for a given age will hold to an average within that age with a high degree of variability WITHIN that group of individuals.

Calculate your Maximum Heart Rate by Age

Here are the results of some Formulas
220-age gives me 171 (wrong answer)
The original formula, later found to have a fairly large standard deviation.

220-1/2 age gives me 185 (hmm maybe)
One of the first modifications to the original formula

202-(.55 x age) 175
Male (Gender Adjusted)

There is a thread over on the Road forum with some guys in their 60 or older with maximum heart rates that are around 190. So 220-age is plainly only good as an average number when you have LOTS of samples.

If I had to guess right now from my limited data so far my Anaerobic threshold is between 130 and 140.

Which makes perfect sense according to this.........

Determining Your Heart Rate Training Zones

Bill

Willbird

[TABLE="width: 550"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][TABLE="width: 175"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone-Max, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Max HR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Zone 5
Speed (anaerobic)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Zone 4
Economy (anaerobic)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Zone 3
Stamina (aerobic)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Zone 2
Endurance (aerobic)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Zone 1
Recovery (aerobic)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][TABLE="width: 125"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone-bluetitle, bgcolor: #E9F2F9, align: center"]By % of
Max HR [2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone-Max, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"] 180[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]162-180
90%-100% MHR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]144-162
80%-90% MHR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]125-144
70%-80% MHR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]108-125
60%-70% MHR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]90-108
50%-60% MHR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]By % of Max HR - Digifit default[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][TABLE="width: 125"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone-bluetitle, bgcolor: #E9F2F9, align: center"]Karvonen modified [3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone-Max, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"] 180[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]168-180
90%-100% HRR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]156-168
80%-90% HRR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]144-156
70%-80% HRR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]132-144
60%-70% HRR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]120-132
50%-60% HRR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Based on % of Heart Rate Reserve (Max HR - Resting Heart Rate)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][TABLE="width: 125"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone-bluetitle, bgcolor: #E9F2F9, align: center"]Zoladz modified [4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone-Max, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"] 180[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]165-180
MHR - 15 bpm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]155-165
MHR - 25 bpm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]145-155
MHR - 35 bpm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]135-145
MHR - 45 bpm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]125-135
MHR - 55 bpm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: HRzone, bgcolor: transparent, align: center"]Zone BPM defined at fixed bpm per zone[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


The zones are shifted a little with the cut/paste, so just follow them down from top to bottom, I moved the maximum up to 180 because plainly mine is not 174 today because I can achieve 180 on a bicycle, it would be even higher probably if my knees tolerated running :-). 125-144 should be my Aerobic zone.

sstorkel

Right. The problem is that the number is an average across a large swath of the population. Which means that it includes tons of people who sit in front of the TV all day long eating Cheetos. The more training you do, the higher you should be able to push your heart rate. If you train regularly 220 - Age is completely useless, I've found; I don't feel like I'm working at all until I'm pretty close to what it predicts as my maximum heart rate!

FYI, here's another formula that's been making the rounds recently: 211 - (0.64 * Age)

Willbird

The most dangerous thing heart rate wise seems to be when 50 year old TV/Cheeto guy hooks up with a 21 year old hottie, or he decides to go out and shovel snow when it is 10F outside :-).

jbenkert111

To even come close to effective heart rate training you have to throw out all those charts. You have to go out and ride to find out YOUR max hrt rate (everyone's is different regardlesss of age). There are a number of ways to do it, but basically you warm up and then ride as hard as you can for ten minutes or so and your highest heart rate achived is your max hrt rate.
Now check your resting hrt rate for 3 mornings (in bed) before you get up, average them and then apply the Karvonen formula and you will have your zones. Here is the formula: MHR - RHR x 70%(Z3) + RHR = Training zone. For example: My MHR is 170 and my RHR is 50. If I want to train in Z2 (80-89%). 170 - 50 = 120 x .80 = 96 + 50 = 146. So I would train at a HR between 146 to 157/158.

Willbird

A lot of the "methods" for finding max say to ride standing, IE not setting on the seat, and I have to admit that is something I really have not done much of since I was a kid :-).

I was able to hit 180 by just working up a hill and pushing and pushing, keeping cadence up but increasing effort, that number can be refined I am sure with more effort :-).

I "do" my daily ride (now and then I walk for a day off the bike) because I truly love how I feel when I do it, and how I feel afterwards, and how I feel thinking about the next ride.

The only thing IMHO I was leaving on the table on the road to becoming more proficient was intervals, I need to integrate them several times a week, everything else seems to be "working".....HOWEVER today is day 60 back on the bike, so the honeymoon may fade and I may need to inject more technical aspects into the game to keep it "working" :-).

But the goal is always the same, being able to BARELY suppress an ear to ear grin smoking along at 20mph with a tail wind (fast for me on my bike and at my stage of the game) at 135bpm or so feeling like I can continue that all day as long as the road keeps going :-).

Bill

mav52

For right now I'm following my Doctors requirements (after my physical which includes stress test) and his heart rate targets for me. And then work towards improvements as my conditioning improves. I never believed in internet medical advice as it can lead to somewhere you might not want to go.

Willbird

I have had two stress tests, but the last one was over ten years ago. My dad passed away at a young age (46) from a heart attack (he smoked) and it always worried me. Might be nice to do another one to see what they get for a maximum reading :-).

Black wallnut 

Who is giving medical advice? You seem to have much more faith in your Dr. than I have in mine, however I greatly respect mine. She is not an expert in athletic training which for me is what cycling is. My goals include better health but also increased athletic performance as measured on on the road climbing hills or faster times over set courses (segments on Strava) plus how I do on race day during cx season. Weight loss makes me faster while also making me feel better, look better. Yeah I had a stress test once. It did not include finding the limits of my heart rather that I had a healthy heart. I was not much of a cyclist at the time, if at all.

Bill you might also want to add once a week or so an all out effort for 30-40 minutes or maybe not. If you do over time increase the duration as your fitness improves.

I also am not bored when I do base building miles at slow speeds. I do know I will not be able to do it for a month straight without some hard efforts.

linnefaulk

Are you using any other app with this or just Wahoo Fitness?
I have been Strava and I know I can upload the Wahoo data to Strava.
I am unsure if I should run both apps at the same time or run Wahoo then let it upload to Strava after the ride is done?

Willbird

Actually I run cyclemeter, wahoo, and now strava ( just now learning strava) all at once, I leave wahoo in the foreground while riding, the others are in background. Cyclemeter IMHO does a great job with the HRM data, the others may too but I have about 60 days more experience with cyclemeter. Strava is baffling me a bit right now :-)

Willbird

As to the 30-40 minutes Black Wallnut, yes that may be good.....a lot of the structured workout strategies were sort of happening naturally anyway, but there has to be benefit in structuring and quantifying some things better :-)