Gah. I hate living in an area where all bikes are overpriced, even the $100 wal-mart bikes sell for much more than they're worth.

My feeling is impossible to quantify precisely, but if you are a 15+ mph rider, you're conceiving a bike that's too heavy. My cruising speed is slower than yours, around 14 mph, and I don't want drum brakes or IGH's because of the weight penalty. But I would not worry about internal friction. I doubt it makes much difference. I use a dynamo front hub on two of my bikes, and I can't discern the drag they create.

That describes most bikes other than cruisers, or BMX bikes........depending on the engine of course.

The best use for an IGH is on bike with a dog and a wide chushy "seat."

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...NDuMyMzwB7TZDT

Thanks to both of you for your honest opinions. I think I really just have to find an IGH bike and take it for a serious ride, instead of just around the parking lot. Maybe I'll just try to put an IGH on one of my bikes first, to see if I'll notice the difference. Then, if I like it, build a bike up around it.

That's a good plan.

I highly recommend you test ride a bike with a Shimano Nexus hub before you buy. My Breezer Uptown 8 has one.

Read Sheldon Brown's article - it's true there is a "clunk" when you shift sometimes - I notice it most after shifting into 6th gear: Shimano Nexus and Alfine Eight Speed Internal-Gear Hubs

You can do 20 mph or more on the 8th gear on flats, at least on this Breezer, according to Cyclometer GPS - MapMyRide says I've never done faster than 18 mph, but it also stopped reporting elevation too so who knows how messed up that app is now. Because of my current level of strength/conditioning, it takes me a while to get up there - maybe you can accelerate faster. I'm not sure though you will like the performance as much as you might with a Shimano 105 set or something.

Thank you. There's no way I'd put 105s on a commuting bike though. Maybe that though will change one day when I have more money to spend, but for now I feel like 105s are too nice to be used on a commuting bike. My current commuter has Soras, so almost anything will be an upgrade. I'm not saying they don't shift well (they do), but I can definitely tell the difference between them and my 105 bike. (It could also be that the 105 bike has very many fewer miles than the commuter bike, who knows.)

Perfect as you wish, out of the box, maybe Not, But, you can always change component parts.
just needs Money added.

The point is not that you should get a 105 set but that you may or may not get the performance out of the Nexus 8 that you might be used to seeing, in comparison to non-IGH, geared bikes like the 105 or the Claris or the whatever.

I converted a derailleur MTB to a 7 speed Shimano IGH, and I couldn't tell any difference in weight, or efficiency within comparable gear ranges.

:roflmao2:

Well we are limited by the OP's $1000 price point.

My Rohloff bikes easily cruise at 15-18 on the flats but the hub alone is well over $1000.

The BMC Alpenchallenge and the Spot Brand bikes with Alfine hubs will all likely outperform any sub-$1000 IGH bike given the same or comparable rider.

[MENTION=345109]corrado33[/MENTION], what you want is a decent steel road bike frame from the early 70's, which you build up to your specifications.

I suggest you forget about hub brakes. Rim brakes are just so much easier to deal with.

Look at the IGH shifter options; comparatively few fit on a 23.8 mm bar (which is standard for drop bars). Sturmey Archer makes a good 5 speed hub that comes with a bar end shifter; and there are aftermarket options for some others. But most IGH shifters fit on a 22.2 mm bar, which is standard for "upright" style bars but also some older steel drop bars. Soma makes a "Lauterwasser" shape bar that's 22.2 mm and works well with IGH shifters. That's what I have on my commuter.

And who exactly would expect 7 speed road gearing to be fully comparable to MTB gearing. :roflmao2:

Sounds nice to me. My cruising speed on flats with my Shimano Nexus 8 is more like 10 mph. I only get into the 20s when I have momentum from a descent, or traffic conditions (when sharing roads with cars) forces me to pedal harder/faster.

That said, I'm more of a "take responsibility for the bike's engine (me)" than a "blame the tools" kind of person.

Good suggestions.

You might be happy with mounting the shifter on an accessory mount. The mount clamps to the handlebar, next to the stem. Here is one with a bike computer attached to it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U...0/IMG_0007.JPG

typical MTB (24/32/44 12/34) 519%
Rohloff 526%
Nexus 7 245%

not exactly comparable gear ranges
http://www.rohloff.de/en/technology/...ge_comparison/

That depends a lot on ones environment, hub brakes have real advantages in most conditions other than clean and dry.

Yes, thank you, my point is that within that 245% range the difference in efficiency is hardly perceptible. If the gear range is inadequate for ones needs, the type isn't going to make a difference. :rolleyes:

Here, I'll quote from Rohloff's website:

The difference between the largest and the smallest gears (range of gears) and the size of the increases between them play a large part in deciding which riding situation the gear system has been tailored to (e.g. high speed racing).

Maybe you meant to say gear ratios?

That's right. It depends. Hub brakes also have disadvantages.

Actually both range and ratio are important considerations.

All have advantages and disadvtages, the trick is finding ones best match.

Yes, of course.

All we had were rims brakes for the longest time. Now some claim that they absolutely need disc (or drum) brakes. (OK, drum brakes existed for a while but were not widely used.) I do accept that the presence of something sometimes creates its own need, but the differences between rim brakes and hub brakes isn't as dramatic as some seem to think. I don't ride any hub brakes, and I do just fine. When it's wet out, I allow greater stopping distances. If I believed my brakes were so fantastic that I didn't need to change anything, I'd be delusional, because while the brake might slow my wheel as well when wet as when dry, my tires don't.

I don't have anything against anyone using hub brakes. Really. But if someone were to imply that rim brakes are entirely unsuitable for his purpose, I'd need to see a very special purpose for me to believe him. There are a few, but most of us do just fine with rim brakes. And rims brakes are practically free. I have a bin of them in my barn, too many for me ever to need.

Yes, I agree completely: they do have real advantages, particularly with regard to braking. My hesitation is that they also have real disadvantages. I used drum brakes and Shimano "roller brakes" for several years and eventually gave up on them because of maintenance issues. Replacement parts were hard to find and difficult to install. Furthermore, disk brakes require a frame made for disk brakes; how many frames are made for disk brakes and IGH? I'm sure there are plenty of guys on this forum who are as comfortable working on a disk-equipped bike as I am on one with caliper brakes, and maybe corrado33 is one of them; in which case I trust he'll cheerfully ignore my suggestion.

My every day commuter is not that different from what he's looking for; shown here with a Shimano nexus 8 hub, dynamo lights front and back, fenders, rack. I recently changed the IGH to an old Sturmey Archer AW, again because it's easier to deal with (I can overhaul it myself); but my commute doesn't involve any real hills. My point is, old steel road bike frames are incredibly versatile and you can do almost anything with them. But one of the things you can't do, without serious frame work, is disk brakes.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-k...125_155255.jpg

Its true Shimano roller brakes aren't serviceable, but if greased as required a few times a year they will last many years. I upgraded my gazelles brakes to the top of the line Shimano roller brakes and they didn't cost much more than a couple sets of koolstop brake pads. If I get 5 years out of the roller brakes I'm way ahead of the game as I can go through 4 sets of pads and a rim in one year with the wet environment here in the PNW. The price of this is higher effort at the lever

Disk/Drums vs. rim brakes: [MENTION=152773]noglider[/MENTION] and [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION]. No, I don't absolutely NEED drum/disk brakes. I commuted just fine last year on an old MTB with rim brakes. I never went fast enough to really require brakes honestly. The majority of what I was riding through had enough rolling resistance that I'd most often just coast to a stop.

But the point is, since I'm attempting to build a commuter, I'd like to have brakes that deal with weather better than rim brakes. Both drum/roller and disks do that. I'm not saying that rim brakes are ineffective in the wet/snow, but they are LESS effective than brakes that are contained (drum/roller) or disks.

Also, as visible in the picture above, snow loves to build up between the rim and rim brakes making them totally ineffective. (I've had that happen quite a bit.) Obviously full length fenders would prevent this somewhat. I did not have full length fenders. In fact, I didn't even have fenders on my winter bike. The snow was never wet enough to require them and I never went fast enough to throw stuff on my back.

So yes, if I have to, I'll use normal rim brakes. They work fine, and changing your habits can make riding safe BUT, today we have better options. If I can incorporate at least ONE disk/drum/roller brake, that'd be great.

It would make an interesting experiment. Disc brakes are getting great reviews, but as [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION] says, the frame has to be ready to accept them. They don't weigh much more than rim brakes.

One possible compromise is using a drum brake in front and a rim brake in the rear. The rear brake isn't that important anyway, and you save a little weight that way. Sturmey Archer makes a front hub that has both a dynamo and a drum brake.

I am building up what I hope to be the perfect commuter for me. I am guessing a lot of folks who have posted do not have Seattle like hills. Only 9 miles each way, but about 1500 feet of elevation gain. So, I want lighter, more gears, and disc (very steep hills and rain have me loving disc brakes) brakes. So, each ultimate commuter might vary by region.