I commute 8.4 miles from Covington down to the Kent valley, James is a mile long 15% grade.

Cool. I am going from the Renton Highlands, down into the valley, and back up into Kent (near James). Brutal, but good for an old guy like me.

For 3 season riding I'd agree with you. But for winter I most often use the rear brake over the front. I don't want to wash out my front wheel. I often ride through a parking lot that has next to no drainage so when the snow melts then freezes overnight, you have perfectly clear, ice skate-able black ice. Studded tires help, but rear braking is a good suggestion (and one that sheldon makes.) Thanks for the suggestion for the dynamo and brake!

Good point about the rear brake. I am only beginning to learn to ride off road. I am starting to build the habit of using my rear brake first. On hard, dry surfaces, I only use my front brake, and that's no good in some conditions.

Sounds like you get to take advantage of the interurban trail. I use about a mile of the Soos creek trail, but the rest is on the road.

Looking forward to seeing how you like the shifting and performance of the Nexus hub bike that you try.

I like being able to shift while at a complete stop. Sheldon Brown though (see article posted earlier) recommends not applying pressure to pedals while shifting, to minimize, which in practice is hard to do when climbing.

I'd love to eventually get a 2nd commuter bike for fun fair-weather use and use the Breezer for bad weather duty, or commute with it if the forecast calls for 10% chance or more of rain. Something like a Space Horse, Tamland, etc. So I'd be going kind of in the opposite direction of the OP.

carrado: I had a somewhat similar list of things I wanted in a commuter but with a more specialized purpose: winter

This is what it turned out like:

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psc650b305.jpg

The frame is a Mongoose Sabrosa and it was meant to be set up in a few different configurations. It could be single speed, derailleur based, or IGH based:

http://biketype.com/pics/5537/full/m...osa-1x1_07.jpg

I wanted a winter bike which meant it needed clearance for some bigger studded tires so I ended up with a beefier frame than you might be looking for. This came in well under $1,000 but I built it up from parts (some of which I had lying around). The frame was $25 from Nashbar's frame sale.

I don't have a recent picture but there have been some changes. The fork I had on there originally was something I picked up for $15 and was aluminum with a limited travel head shock. It had the dimensions I was looking for so I grabbed it. I eventually replaced it with a carbon fork similar to the bike in the second pick. Although you can't see it well in this picture, the original IGH was a Nexus 8 speed "Redband" and I had a roller brake on the rear. The front brake is a BB7 (disc).

The shifter is a bar end from Jtek and I highly recommend it if you are going to use a Nexus or Alfine with drop bars.

Anyway I have real world experience with roller brakes, Nexus/Alfine Hubs, and disc brakes.

Roller Brake Pros: Super easy adjustment, quiet, works in all conditions, low low maintenance
Roller Brake Cons: Not the quickest stopping brakes on the planet, heavy, experienced drag from grease in extreme cold

Disc Brake Pros: Relatively light, work in all conditions, can remove wheel without disconnecting anything, stop fast
Disc Brake Cons: Squeal like banshees if something gets on the rotors or pads, tight clearances between pad and rotor means rubbing if something is out of whack

The Nexus 8 speed Premium or "Red Band" and the Alfine 8 are virtually the same except that one works with roller brakes and one with discs. First off I will say that I'm very pleased with it. It shifts smoothly and it's super quiet (something I like), even while coasting. The range is adequate for my needs. People use these things on off-road bikes because they aren't as susceptible to getting gummed up or broken as derailleurs are. I like it because it's not affected by ice, snow, or grit. Grit and ice used to do a number on my derailleurs in the winter.

IGH Performance: This is truly hard for me to gauge. I would not choose to use it on a fast group ride or in any kind of road competition. It's not that I feel there is a huge loss of efficiency but spacing is not as close as I'd like, - especially between 5th and 6th gears. At the same time I don't feel it slows me down much at all on a summer commute. In winter you get some drag in cold weather. I switched from grease to ATF (transmission fluid) and that has helped.

IGH Weight: Somewhere in this thread someone said they replaced their derailleurs with a 7 speed Nexus and couldn't really tell the difference. Maybe the 7 speed is a lot lighter or the original derailleurs and cassette were on the heavy side but in my experience the Nexus/Alfine is quite hefty. Maybe on an otherwise heavy bike it wouldn't be noticeable but on this bike there is a substantial rear weight bias due to the hub. It's kind of annoying when you pick up the bike. How much does it affect performance? Well, their are all sorts of arguments about weight and performance that I won't go into, but if weight is a big concern, you might be bothered by the Alfine (or any IGH with more than 2 or 3 gears).

One last note about brakes. If you want a brake you can set up and then not have to worry about at all for a long long time, a roller brake is a very good choice. If you care about weight and you want the best stopping power in all conditions, then discs are a very good choice.

My Gazelle has a standard nexus 8, and my Robin Hood has a red band nexus 8, the only noticeable difference is the red band shifts better under load.

I replaced the derailleurs with a 7 speed Shimano on a steel Ross Mt Whitney. The hub is heavier than the freewheel hub, but I also removed 2 derailleurs, 2 chairings, 5 sprockets, a shifter, cable, and about 20 chain links, so overall the gain in weight is about equal to a bottle of water, and I'm not sensitive enough that feel that.

If so, maybe 3 speeds might be enough. Granted, I'm not a super fast or athletic rider, but I've been quite satisfied with 3 speeds for my commutes.

Of course the pro's and con's are easy to guess, because the numbers don't lie. With less than a 2:1 overall gear range, you have to give something up, either ease of cranking up tall hills, or having useful power going downhill.

And, much as I love gear hubs, I have to agree with @noglider that it's hard to make sense of IGH's from cost or weight standpoint. Adding one more gear to a cluster involves a simple piece of flat metal. Adding one more gear to an IGH is a whole new design. And it seems like modern derailer systems have gotten pretty darn reliable, even those of modest price.

Soos Creek sometimes, but I am a long way away from Interurban during my commute.

So you stay east of 167? That is a rollercoaster ride.

It depends on the model and year of red band vs standard Nexus. When I was looking at them the red band had 3 roller clutches compared to the standard Nexus which had 1. The standard Nexus hub used pawls and they'd click when coasting just like a cassette hub. The Alfines and Red Bands don't. They coast silently.

As far as drivetrain weight difference goes my first conversion came out to about a pound heavier with the IGH. I was starting with relatively light components though and that makes a difference. It would seem like you're getting rid of so much stuff that it would compensate for the beefier hub but it depends. For example, I had campy brifters which were replaced with tektro brake levers and a Jtek shifter. Getting rid of the extra shifter didn't save much if anything in my case because the Campys were pretty light.

I like my IGH a lot but if I never rode in real winter weather I probably wouldn't have one. But, in addition to working well in bad conditions, I also think they offer advantages to those less mechanically inclined. You don't worry about dropped chains and you don't need to lube or replace your chains as often. For those that like chain guards or cases an IGH make those a lot easier to fit.

Both hubs are 2014s, and both coast silently. The only difference I can tell is the shifting when using an Alfine trigger shifter.

Hmm. Sounds like I was wrong since I don't think they've changed much in the last couple of years. Don't know what the "external" roller bearings do vs Internal but the Red Band supposedly has 3 sets of roller bearings where the Standard hub has just has one.

There's a doc that explains the differences but it may be dated. It also claims the Red band is more efficient in every gear except 5th. Not sure if it's a difference that anyone would notice. I seem to remember something about Alfines and Redbands being rated for offroad use. Not that it matters in this case anyway.

http://poehali.net/attach/Differences_Between_Hubs.pdf

We can BS about commuters that are hill friendly and the need for disc brakes, because it sounds like the other folks see commuters as flat land bikes.

yes, east of 167. So, painful elevation changes for this older dude.

You can use a trigger shifter with any Nexus hub, the cable pull is the same. I've interchanged grip shifters and trigger shifters on several of my Nexus 7 and 8 bikes.

I've never used a 7 shifter on an 8 hub or vice versa, but my understanding is that will work too, you just won't be able to access all the gears or one of your shift detents won't do anything.

Hmmm. The thing about roller brakes is they suck out loud in all conditions. Not sure about conventional drum brakes, but my experiences with roller brakes in particular are not that positive. Personally I've been happy enough with rim brakes even in winter. If it gets really snowy, I'm going so slow at that point that it hardly matters that the performance suffers. Still. Of the available hub brakes, discs are what I personally would choose.

What roller brakes are you basing that opinion on? If it's what you get on bike share bikes, then I agree, but Shimano sells several models and the bigger ones with heat dissipation fins perform better (but they're heavier too). What I had initially was a disc brake on the front and a roller brake on the rear and that may be a nice combo. It doesn't take much to skid a rear wheel. Even a wimpy roller brake can usually do that.

Agreed,
My Gazelles OE rear brake was the smallest IM-30 that Shimano makes that is also typically used on share bikes and they are underwhelming at best. My Robin Hood has a mid size IM-45 on the back and its much better. The one now on my Gazelle is the IM-80 and its yet another step up. There is also the IM-81 that has additional fins on the cooling disc for tandems and cycle trucks.

If you can let go of the IGH, Volagi makes your bike.

http://www.volagi.com/shop/viaje-shimano-105-hydro/

And they do make a dynamo version of their "bulletproof" wheelset.

Nice bike but costs over twice what he wanted to spend. Unless you meant the 1 X 10 which is about $1,400

I don't know how much BSing I may do, it seems my preferences can be a direct challenge to some folks, as if speed and weight are all that defines the quality of ones riding experience.

Yeah, basically the bike share versions. If there are models out there that work better, that's great, but I don't see much reason to bother with any hub brake system that isn't a disc brake. That's just my opinion, of course. I ride rim brakes in the winter, personally, and I just don't get why anyone insists disc or other hub brakes are essential equipment on a commuter bike. Nice to have, sure, but when the road conditions get bad enough that a decent set of rim brakes really starts to become non-functional, I'm traveling too slowly for it to matter much. YMMV.

Basically exactly what I said above. :)

Apparently one of the other workers at the shop has an alfine 8, so I'll see if I can ride his bike for a bit or simply ask him about it. Honestly the nexus is cheap enough (you can buy an entire wheel for 200 on amazon.) that I'm not really worried if I don't like it. (The advantages of being a single male without many financial obligations are many.)

We'll see, I'll keep you guys updated.

For me, choosing roller brakes has been for simple economics. They're much cheaper and easier to retrofit than discs, and don't use pads or shoes. If or when I wear them out I can simply replace them for the cost of a few sets of brake pads. Besides that, it eliminates the need to replace worn rims.
Keep in mind I'm in the PNW, and deal with 9 months a year of wet weather riding which eats up wear components. I have nothing against discs other than pad replacement, and seriously considered a couple of bikes that have them.

Not essential, but cheaper and easier.


Oh yeah, one more thing, it keeps me out of the doghouse, because I bring my bikes in the house, and with hub brakes I no longer get that nasty black brake smut on the floors or carpet.

I have a big problem with rim brakes when the temperature is around freezing.
Several times I have had water freeze onto the rims, leaving me with no braking effect at all.

I now have a disc braked winter commuter, but before that I used to get through a set of wheels every 2 years.

[MENTION=365305]kickstart[/MENTION], those are some good reasons to try drum brakes.

I rode Citibike today and paid attention to the brakes. Citibike is the NYC bike share, a very big program. Most of the bikes have Shimano roller brakes. They can stop very well but you have to squeeze very hard. I have large and strong hands, so it's not a problem for me, but it could be for people with small or weak hands.

For the most part I tend not to be traveling that fast in bad winter conditions and when I was using rim brakes they almost always worked well enough. I did have a couple of occasions one year where I hit the brakes at an intersection and they did absolutely nothing. I don't know if it was just that particular rim and pad combination or just the right set of conditions.

For many years I was changing winter bikes and equipment frequently, - trying to figure out what worked best. One particular wheel has moved from bike to bike and is now getting worn out from using rim brakes in bad weather.

So based on experience I do have a preference for discs but I'm not terrified of using rim brakes in the winter either. If I lived in climate with less extreme cold, my preference might be for rollers instead.

It seems like the OP would be fine with a 3spd IGH, Sturmey Archer of course. I have A SA XL-FDD dyno drum and SA-RD5w. I also have a Rohloff 14 that I got for my Tour bike. Both have 8000 miles. Before that I wasted 38 years with 4 POS derailler bikes, what total junk. Faster starting and faster to the landfill.

The fastest and most efficient hub is the Sturmey Archer. NO doubt, in any gear. Mostly because the middle gear is direct drive. Just using the middle 3 spds I can go from 7% hills to 31 mph with just 2 clicks of the shifter. Stop to 13 mph, 2nd up to 20, then 3rd to 31+ mph, I usually am in 5th gear before that so I don't know. I do gear it higher than 99% of wussie users probably. 45, 54, 72, 92, 116 GI. Fastest ever at 45.8 mph and longest day was 126 miles. Sheldon's uphill advice for 3 spds is STUPID. I have little problem going high teens. My shifting can be finicky to 1st. The reason they last forever is the direct middlegear, which ought to be used 80% of the time.

How many clicks/ kerchunks for [MENTION=212987]spare_wheel[/MENTION] going 0-30 mph ??? 9 or 11? Lets see his bike carry a sack of potatoes.
Great bikes there @kickstart !!!

My Tour with Herr Rohloff and SA dynohub was 4200 miles, half city, 22 to 120 GI. Bike was like 130 lbs and did lots of hill repeat days of 75/ 85 miles. This hub is definately slower than SA, but still as good as deraillers, but NO kerchunk shifts. Unlike defaillers it Works thru ANY mud slime roads. Only been up to 41.6 mph, same hill. The direct gear is in a dumb spot at 11th gear. Mine is also high at 83 GI, so only good when chasing tri-geeks at 24 mph with a tail wind. ha 7th gear is a slug tho. ... Oh yah, 130 lbs = 8 TdF bikes, a WHOLE team is 9 bikes. Inefficient my eye. Totally dropped any loaded MTB guys I saw. Actually in the big crowded cities in Asia I didn't even bother using more than 2 gears.

Rim brakes with mud slime also gets you useless 20% performance and/or rim grinding. Why would anybody choose roller brakes over Zero maintenance drum brakes ??

I only went around the block with an Alfine8. They seem OK. I never see them being geared more than wussie either.