Here, I'll quote from Rohloff's website:

The difference between the largest and the smallest gears (range of gears) and the size of the increases between them play a large part in deciding which riding situation the gear system has been tailored to (e.g. high speed racing).

Maybe you meant to say gear ratios?

That's right. It depends. Hub brakes also have disadvantages.

Actually both range and ratio are important considerations.

All have advantages and disadvtages, the trick is finding ones best match.

Yes, of course.

All we had were rims brakes for the longest time. Now some claim that they absolutely need disc (or drum) brakes. (OK, drum brakes existed for a while but were not widely used.) I do accept that the presence of something sometimes creates its own need, but the differences between rim brakes and hub brakes isn't as dramatic as some seem to think. I don't ride any hub brakes, and I do just fine. When it's wet out, I allow greater stopping distances. If I believed my brakes were so fantastic that I didn't need to change anything, I'd be delusional, because while the brake might slow my wheel as well when wet as when dry, my tires don't.

I don't have anything against anyone using hub brakes. Really. But if someone were to imply that rim brakes are entirely unsuitable for his purpose, I'd need to see a very special purpose for me to believe him. There are a few, but most of us do just fine with rim brakes. And rims brakes are practically free. I have a bin of them in my barn, too many for me ever to need.

Yes, I agree completely: they do have real advantages, particularly with regard to braking. My hesitation is that they also have real disadvantages. I used drum brakes and Shimano "roller brakes" for several years and eventually gave up on them because of maintenance issues. Replacement parts were hard to find and difficult to install. Furthermore, disk brakes require a frame made for disk brakes; how many frames are made for disk brakes and IGH? I'm sure there are plenty of guys on this forum who are as comfortable working on a disk-equipped bike as I am on one with caliper brakes, and maybe corrado33 is one of them; in which case I trust he'll cheerfully ignore my suggestion.

My every day commuter is not that different from what he's looking for; shown here with a Shimano nexus 8 hub, dynamo lights front and back, fenders, rack. I recently changed the IGH to an old Sturmey Archer AW, again because it's easier to deal with (I can overhaul it myself); but my commute doesn't involve any real hills. My point is, old steel road bike frames are incredibly versatile and you can do almost anything with them. But one of the things you can't do, without serious frame work, is disk brakes.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-k...125_155255.jpg

Its true Shimano roller brakes aren't serviceable, but if greased as required a few times a year they will last many years. I upgraded my gazelles brakes to the top of the line Shimano roller brakes and they didn't cost much more than a couple sets of koolstop brake pads. If I get 5 years out of the roller brakes I'm way ahead of the game as I can go through 4 sets of pads and a rim in one year with the wet environment here in the PNW. The price of this is higher effort at the lever

Disk/Drums vs. rim brakes: [MENTION=152773]noglider[/MENTION] and [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION]. No, I don't absolutely NEED drum/disk brakes. I commuted just fine last year on an old MTB with rim brakes. I never went fast enough to really require brakes honestly. The majority of what I was riding through had enough rolling resistance that I'd most often just coast to a stop.

But the point is, since I'm attempting to build a commuter, I'd like to have brakes that deal with weather better than rim brakes. Both drum/roller and disks do that. I'm not saying that rim brakes are ineffective in the wet/snow, but they are LESS effective than brakes that are contained (drum/roller) or disks.

Also, as visible in the picture above, snow loves to build up between the rim and rim brakes making them totally ineffective. (I've had that happen quite a bit.) Obviously full length fenders would prevent this somewhat. I did not have full length fenders. In fact, I didn't even have fenders on my winter bike. The snow was never wet enough to require them and I never went fast enough to throw stuff on my back.

So yes, if I have to, I'll use normal rim brakes. They work fine, and changing your habits can make riding safe BUT, today we have better options. If I can incorporate at least ONE disk/drum/roller brake, that'd be great.

It would make an interesting experiment. Disc brakes are getting great reviews, but as [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION] says, the frame has to be ready to accept them. They don't weigh much more than rim brakes.

One possible compromise is using a drum brake in front and a rim brake in the rear. The rear brake isn't that important anyway, and you save a little weight that way. Sturmey Archer makes a front hub that has both a dynamo and a drum brake.

I am building up what I hope to be the perfect commuter for me. I am guessing a lot of folks who have posted do not have Seattle like hills. Only 9 miles each way, but about 1500 feet of elevation gain. So, I want lighter, more gears, and disc (very steep hills and rain have me loving disc brakes) brakes. So, each ultimate commuter might vary by region.

I commute 8.4 miles from Covington down to the Kent valley, James is a mile long 15% grade.

Cool. I am going from the Renton Highlands, down into the valley, and back up into Kent (near James). Brutal, but good for an old guy like me.

For 3 season riding I'd agree with you. But for winter I most often use the rear brake over the front. I don't want to wash out my front wheel. I often ride through a parking lot that has next to no drainage so when the snow melts then freezes overnight, you have perfectly clear, ice skate-able black ice. Studded tires help, but rear braking is a good suggestion (and one that sheldon makes.) Thanks for the suggestion for the dynamo and brake!

Good point about the rear brake. I am only beginning to learn to ride off road. I am starting to build the habit of using my rear brake first. On hard, dry surfaces, I only use my front brake, and that's no good in some conditions.

Sounds like you get to take advantage of the interurban trail. I use about a mile of the Soos creek trail, but the rest is on the road.

Looking forward to seeing how you like the shifting and performance of the Nexus hub bike that you try.

I like being able to shift while at a complete stop. Sheldon Brown though (see article posted earlier) recommends not applying pressure to pedals while shifting, to minimize, which in practice is hard to do when climbing.

I'd love to eventually get a 2nd commuter bike for fun fair-weather use and use the Breezer for bad weather duty, or commute with it if the forecast calls for 10% chance or more of rain. Something like a Space Horse, Tamland, etc. So I'd be going kind of in the opposite direction of the OP.

carrado: I had a somewhat similar list of things I wanted in a commuter but with a more specialized purpose: winter

This is what it turned out like:

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psc650b305.jpg

The frame is a Mongoose Sabrosa and it was meant to be set up in a few different configurations. It could be single speed, derailleur based, or IGH based:

http://biketype.com/pics/5537/full/m...osa-1x1_07.jpg

I wanted a winter bike which meant it needed clearance for some bigger studded tires so I ended up with a beefier frame than you might be looking for. This came in well under $1,000 but I built it up from parts (some of which I had lying around). The frame was $25 from Nashbar's frame sale.

I don't have a recent picture but there have been some changes. The fork I had on there originally was something I picked up for $15 and was aluminum with a limited travel head shock. It had the dimensions I was looking for so I grabbed it. I eventually replaced it with a carbon fork similar to the bike in the second pick. Although you can't see it well in this picture, the original IGH was a Nexus 8 speed "Redband" and I had a roller brake on the rear. The front brake is a BB7 (disc).

The shifter is a bar end from Jtek and I highly recommend it if you are going to use a Nexus or Alfine with drop bars.

Anyway I have real world experience with roller brakes, Nexus/Alfine Hubs, and disc brakes.

Roller Brake Pros: Super easy adjustment, quiet, works in all conditions, low low maintenance
Roller Brake Cons: Not the quickest stopping brakes on the planet, heavy, experienced drag from grease in extreme cold

Disc Brake Pros: Relatively light, work in all conditions, can remove wheel without disconnecting anything, stop fast
Disc Brake Cons: Squeal like banshees if something gets on the rotors or pads, tight clearances between pad and rotor means rubbing if something is out of whack

The Nexus 8 speed Premium or "Red Band" and the Alfine 8 are virtually the same except that one works with roller brakes and one with discs. First off I will say that I'm very pleased with it. It shifts smoothly and it's super quiet (something I like), even while coasting. The range is adequate for my needs. People use these things on off-road bikes because they aren't as susceptible to getting gummed up or broken as derailleurs are. I like it because it's not affected by ice, snow, or grit. Grit and ice used to do a number on my derailleurs in the winter.

IGH Performance: This is truly hard for me to gauge. I would not choose to use it on a fast group ride or in any kind of road competition. It's not that I feel there is a huge loss of efficiency but spacing is not as close as I'd like, - especially between 5th and 6th gears. At the same time I don't feel it slows me down much at all on a summer commute. In winter you get some drag in cold weather. I switched from grease to ATF (transmission fluid) and that has helped.

IGH Weight: Somewhere in this thread someone said they replaced their derailleurs with a 7 speed Nexus and couldn't really tell the difference. Maybe the 7 speed is a lot lighter or the original derailleurs and cassette were on the heavy side but in my experience the Nexus/Alfine is quite hefty. Maybe on an otherwise heavy bike it wouldn't be noticeable but on this bike there is a substantial rear weight bias due to the hub. It's kind of annoying when you pick up the bike. How much does it affect performance? Well, their are all sorts of arguments about weight and performance that I won't go into, but if weight is a big concern, you might be bothered by the Alfine (or any IGH with more than 2 or 3 gears).

One last note about brakes. If you want a brake you can set up and then not have to worry about at all for a long long time, a roller brake is a very good choice. If you care about weight and you want the best stopping power in all conditions, then discs are a very good choice.

My Gazelle has a standard nexus 8, and my Robin Hood has a red band nexus 8, the only noticeable difference is the red band shifts better under load.

I replaced the derailleurs with a 7 speed Shimano on a steel Ross Mt Whitney. The hub is heavier than the freewheel hub, but I also removed 2 derailleurs, 2 chairings, 5 sprockets, a shifter, cable, and about 20 chain links, so overall the gain in weight is about equal to a bottle of water, and I'm not sensitive enough that feel that.

If so, maybe 3 speeds might be enough. Granted, I'm not a super fast or athletic rider, but I've been quite satisfied with 3 speeds for my commutes.

Of course the pro's and con's are easy to guess, because the numbers don't lie. With less than a 2:1 overall gear range, you have to give something up, either ease of cranking up tall hills, or having useful power going downhill.

And, much as I love gear hubs, I have to agree with @noglider that it's hard to make sense of IGH's from cost or weight standpoint. Adding one more gear to a cluster involves a simple piece of flat metal. Adding one more gear to an IGH is a whole new design. And it seems like modern derailer systems have gotten pretty darn reliable, even those of modest price.

Soos Creek sometimes, but I am a long way away from Interurban during my commute.

So you stay east of 167? That is a rollercoaster ride.

It depends on the model and year of red band vs standard Nexus. When I was looking at them the red band had 3 roller clutches compared to the standard Nexus which had 1. The standard Nexus hub used pawls and they'd click when coasting just like a cassette hub. The Alfines and Red Bands don't. They coast silently.

As far as drivetrain weight difference goes my first conversion came out to about a pound heavier with the IGH. I was starting with relatively light components though and that makes a difference. It would seem like you're getting rid of so much stuff that it would compensate for the beefier hub but it depends. For example, I had campy brifters which were replaced with tektro brake levers and a Jtek shifter. Getting rid of the extra shifter didn't save much if anything in my case because the Campys were pretty light.

I like my IGH a lot but if I never rode in real winter weather I probably wouldn't have one. But, in addition to working well in bad conditions, I also think they offer advantages to those less mechanically inclined. You don't worry about dropped chains and you don't need to lube or replace your chains as often. For those that like chain guards or cases an IGH make those a lot easier to fit.

Both hubs are 2014s, and both coast silently. The only difference I can tell is the shifting when using an Alfine trigger shifter.

Hmm. Sounds like I was wrong since I don't think they've changed much in the last couple of years. Don't know what the "external" roller bearings do vs Internal but the Red Band supposedly has 3 sets of roller bearings where the Standard hub has just has one.

There's a doc that explains the differences but it may be dated. It also claims the Red band is more efficient in every gear except 5th. Not sure if it's a difference that anyone would notice. I seem to remember something about Alfines and Redbands being rated for offroad use. Not that it matters in this case anyway.

http://poehali.net/attach/Differences_Between_Hubs.pdf