Replacing chain after 1350 miles
10-20-15, 12:03 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
New in the bag Campag Chorus 11spd chain. Lucky for you was time to change chains 
https://www.dropbox.com/photos/share...aBY3eFO6n5wuzI
All bicycle chains (that I know of) everywhere are 1" pitch (1 full link is 1", and thus internall the distances are the same), thus the roller spacing is identical....kinda funny when you think about how everything else is metric. Campagnolo advises in their official documentation to track chain wear measuring roller pitch across 6 full links, and when their length exceeds 132.7mm to replace, and not to use the 12" equals 12 links and 0.5% rule....however, with a decent digital caliper that is accurate and repeatable to thousands of an inch, that averaging over 6 links isn't necessary just remember 0.200" new and 0.240" replace (or rotate at 0.220", for fans like myself of rotating chains). The iGaging one above was $25 IIRC and certified as accurate to 0.001" IIRC, not only cheaper than most chain-checkers but far more accurate and repeatable as well and tells you what you need to know in a meaningful data way.
Sorry was in a hurry earlier and meant to type "roller pairing" in my last post. Probably what confused y'all.
https://www.dropbox.com/photos/share...aBY3eFO6n5wuzI
All bicycle chains (that I know of) everywhere are 1" pitch (1 full link is 1", and thus internall the distances are the same), thus the roller spacing is identical....kinda funny when you think about how everything else is metric. Campagnolo advises in their official documentation to track chain wear measuring roller pitch across 6 full links, and when their length exceeds 132.7mm to replace, and not to use the 12" equals 12 links and 0.5% rule....however, with a decent digital caliper that is accurate and repeatable to thousands of an inch, that averaging over 6 links isn't necessary just remember 0.200" new and 0.240" replace (or rotate at 0.220", for fans like myself of rotating chains). The iGaging one above was $25 IIRC and certified as accurate to 0.001" IIRC, not only cheaper than most chain-checkers but far more accurate and repeatable as well and tells you what you need to know in a meaningful data way.
Sorry was in a hurry earlier and meant to type "roller pairing" in my last post. Probably what confused y'all.
For 0.5% wear you should be looking for something like 0.202" if 0.200" is new.
10-20-15, 12:22 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Posts: 9,083
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3376 Post(s)
Liked 5,522 Times
in
2,862 Posts
Roller wear != chain stretch.
These are two different kinds of wear.
Chain stretch is from the the pins wearing against the *inside* of the bushings.
Roller wear is from the inside of the rollers wearing against the *outside* of the bushings, (and probably a little of the outside of the roller wearing against the cogs).
These are two different kinds of wear.
Chain stretch is from the the pins wearing against the *inside* of the bushings.
Roller wear is from the inside of the rollers wearing against the *outside* of the bushings, (and probably a little of the outside of the roller wearing against the cogs).
10-20-15, 12:26 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Okefenokee Swamps.
Posts: 577
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Something about that doesn't sound right. 0.240" would represent the wear of two pins, correct? If new is 0.200", then the wear of one pin would be 0.020", times 24 rollers in 12 inches, is 0.48" or nearly 1/2 inch of total wear in 12 inches. That is FAR more than 0.5% wear. That's more like 4%.
For 0.5% wear you should be looking for something like 0.202" if 0.200" is new.
For 0.5% wear you should be looking for something like 0.202" if 0.200" is new.
Hmmmm, interesting. I just "mic'ed" a couple of pairs of rollers and got .224 inches. And my chain has about 1000 up to 1200 miles on it.
10-20-15, 12:33 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
I still have my old original worn chain pictured above, laying around in the garage. I'll measure between rollers this evening and see how it comes out. It was stretched nearly 1% based on ruler measurement.
10-20-15, 02:08 PM
#30
Unlisted member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 6,192
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1376 Post(s)
Liked 432 Times
in
297 Posts
I don't keep track of my mileage, but change the chain based on the Park Tools chainwear checker. It's cheap insurance, and much better than replacing the cassette.
10-20-15, 09:14 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 199
Bikes: Trek Allant
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
10-20-15, 09:38 PM
#32
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
Hmm! I would expect much more from that model, but winter does take a toll on chains.
10-21-15, 06:14 AM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montpelier VT
Posts: 855
Bikes: Scott Genius, Surly Crosscheck, Yuba Mundo cargo, Specialized Dolce Triple (stolen 5/8/15)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
That's generally the first clue that a chain is nearing the end. A good cleaning and quality lube job should make it almost silent. If that is not the case, it's likely wearing.
With some of the newer lubes, cleaning and lube is a single pass. I started using Rock n Roll gold for just that reason. You lube up the chain so it's pretty wet with the lube, spin the chain forward for 10 seconds. Then let it sit for a few seconds then spin it backwards for 10 seconds. All the dirt and grit floats up and you spin the chain through a cloth to take off the excess carrier in the lube that is holding all the grease and grit. Do it again until the grit is gone. I'm pretty picky about chain cleaning and lubes and I really like a clean chain. This is the easiest way to get there that I have seen.
J.
With some of the newer lubes, cleaning and lube is a single pass. I started using Rock n Roll gold for just that reason. You lube up the chain so it's pretty wet with the lube, spin the chain forward for 10 seconds. Then let it sit for a few seconds then spin it backwards for 10 seconds. All the dirt and grit floats up and you spin the chain through a cloth to take off the excess carrier in the lube that is holding all the grease and grit. Do it again until the grit is gone. I'm pretty picky about chain cleaning and lubes and I really like a clean chain. This is the easiest way to get there that I have seen.
J.
10-22-15, 07:23 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
I then checked a length of my current KMC X10L Ti chain that I had laying around, cut off from when I first installed it, so still brand new. It measured .202 between rollers at outer plates.
Just checked the X10L chain on my road bike and it's also stretched out a fair bit, about the same as my old chain. But I've been using my current chain about 3 times as long (2K vs 6K miles).
Last edited by PatrickGSR94; 10-22-15 at 07:36 PM.
10-22-15, 08:07 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
This is what my Gazelles chain looks like after over 3800 miles of all weather riding with no maintenance.
10-22-15, 08:42 PM
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Okefenokee Swamps.
Posts: 577
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I just checked my old chain (pictured earlier in this thread, stretched nearly 1%), and most rollers measured .217 to .218 at outer link plates (micrometer won't fit between the inner link plates on the 3/32" chain).
I then checked a length of my current KMC X10L Ti chain that I had laying around, cut off from when I first installed it, so still brand new. It measured .202 between rollers at outer plates.
Just checked the X10L chain on my road bike and it's also stretched out a fair bit, about the same as my old chain. But I've been using my current chain about 3 times as long (2K vs 6K miles).
I then checked a length of my current KMC X10L Ti chain that I had laying around, cut off from when I first installed it, so still brand new. It measured .202 between rollers at outer plates.
Just checked the X10L chain on my road bike and it's also stretched out a fair bit, about the same as my old chain. But I've been using my current chain about 3 times as long (2K vs 6K miles).
10-22-15, 09:56 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
My brand new and unused SRAM PC850 chain measures .211" between the rollers within the outer link plate fwiw. Looking at the previous post where his X10L chain measures .202" between rollers, it appears that different brands of chains offer rollers having different diameters!?!?!?!?
10-22-15, 10:03 PM
#38
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
My brand new and unused SRAM PC850 chain measures .211" between the rollers within the outer link plate fwiw. Looking at the previous post where his X10L chain measures .202" between rollers, it appears that different brands of chains offer rollers having different diameters!?!?!?!?
10-22-15, 10:07 PM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
So check this out, I examined my old chain under a magnifier, and found the links are stamped "SACHS PC59". I looked that up and apparently that's a 9-speed chain. But it came stock on my 2011 Felt Z85 with 10-speed 105 5700. Weird.
10-23-15, 05:14 AM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Okefenokee Swamps.
Posts: 577
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Therefore it would seem that it's not the absolute measurement that counts; rather, it's the before (brand new chain) and after (used chain) measurement that should be looked at to compare the difference.
10-23-15, 07:28 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
I still think it's better to measure total stretch over 10-12 links rather trying to measure in between each roller.
10-23-15, 07:53 AM
#43
Señior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
I needed to clean and lube my chain today. I normally do this at home, but since I was in the co-op at the time I decided to go ahead and use the Park tool chain checker. It failed the .5% measurement and very nearly failed the .75% one! I was really surprised because the chain only has 1350 miles on it. I ride in the rain quite a bit, but I'm pretty good about wiping the chain down and keeping it properly lubed.
I'm on a 2015 Bianchi Volpe with a 3x10 Tiagra drivetrain. Any recommendations for a new chain that might hold up better?
I'm on a 2015 Bianchi Volpe with a 3x10 Tiagra drivetrain. Any recommendations for a new chain that might hold up better?
I honestly did some experimentation and found two things: First, for me, it didn't make any sense to be super meticulous about cleaning - if I cleaned several times a week I got maybe another 100 miles out of the chain, at the cost of several hours of chain cleaning time and a lot of scrweing around and getting dirty. Second, it actually didn't make sense to replace the chain at all. I was riding a hybrid with fairly cheap components ($20 cassette, and I could usually find full cranksets on clearance at Nashbar or somewhere for < $20). I could replace the chain every 1800 miles and at about 9000 miles I'd have to replace the cassette because it was too worn. Or I could just leave the chain on there an let it wear, and I'd still have to replace the cassette and chain at 9000 miles. So changing the chain did nothing but use up more chains. I didn't even always have to replace the crankset, only maybe every other time.
I think it was maybe because it was an 8 speed cassette, probably a lot less picky about things than the 10 speed I run now. But honestly, I was perfectly happy with 8 speed - I'm considering switching my road bike to 8. With 10 there are gears when I can't really tell if it shifted or not, they're so close.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
10-23-15, 07:54 AM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
So I think that .218" represents the wear of two rollers AND two pins all added together, which is WAY inaccurate. Still better to measure total stretch over 12 links with a ruler like I showed on the last page.
10-23-15, 07:55 AM
#45
Señior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Well, sure, the wear you're trying to measure is on the order of 1/64 of an inch. That's hard to measure. Multiply by 10, you're measuring 1/6 of an inch, which is trivial to measure.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
10-23-15, 09:46 AM
#46
GATC
I have also pushed chains to stretch at around 1k miles. It only got that low one time, 2500 is about my ceiling. I am not too attentive about cleaning during the rainy season (October->June). I don't find it too hard or expensive to just replace chains and not replace cassettes as often.
I am intrigued by that Shimano gauge that takes out roller wear from the stretch estimate. Will be thinking about that in the future.
I am intrigued by that Shimano gauge that takes out roller wear from the stretch estimate. Will be thinking about that in the future.
10-23-15, 10:10 AM
#47
Full Member
It may not be the chain, it could be the engine. What is your riding style? Do you mash the pedals frequently by standing up or by maintaining low rpm? I get about 8000 miles per chain, without very much maintenance, but I never stand up and I pedal at about 90 rpm plus or minus 5.
__________________
Longbikes Slipstream
Longbikes Slipstream
10-23-15, 12:04 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Okefenokee Swamps.
Posts: 577
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
***t. Taking all of the comments into account, I'll simply replace the chain at xxxx miles and not worry about further unless shifting becomes an issue. ....and then just R&R the whole drivetrain.
10-23-15, 12:08 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Not me, I don't like wasting stuff when there's still life left in it. Although I haven't really checked the stretch on my KMC chain until last night, and it's been on the bike 2 years and 6,000 miles. Time for a new one! I hope I can get by without replacing the Ultegra cassette.
10-23-15, 12:10 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Posts: 9,083
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3376 Post(s)
Liked 5,522 Times
in
2,862 Posts
I use the Shimano chain checker.
I ride 4000-5000 miles a year.
Looking over my records, it looks like I have ordered 8 chains over the last 7 years, so I'm getting ~4000 miles/chain.
I ride 4000-5000 miles a year.
Looking over my records, it looks like I have ordered 8 chains over the last 7 years, so I'm getting ~4000 miles/chain.