Knowledge is power of which you're lacking some, the Rhinodillo weigh 95 grams not 60.

Preventing flats while commuting or touring is not simply riding with the lightest tire and installing a strip, it's also about making sure you don't get casing failure and sidewall punctures all of which a liner will do nothing for, and a lighter tire will be more susceptible to that sort of damage. Nothing like arriving late to work and explaining to the boss your tire failed because you wanted to use the lightest tire.

The attraction is cost. Pay premium price ($50+ per tire) for tires with built-in flat protection, when they wear out, throw away the tire and the flat protection together, and pay premium price repeatedly for new tires with flat protection. OR, pay $15-20 once for a pair of liners, and for ever after buy cheaper tires without flat protection, and when they wear out, throw away the old tires, keep the same flat protection (liners), and buy cheaper tires again.

I have used Mr Tuffys in the past, I have never had problems with the ends abrading tubes and causing punctures (plenty of others report they have had those problems though, don't know what's different), and they have done a great job preventing punctures from sharp objects, or even emergency skids where I sheared a hole through the tire and the colorful Mr Tuffy liner was clearly visible in like a 1cm diameter circle. Didn't even know my skid had done that until I rode like 15 more miles and got home, got off the bike, and saw my rear tire.

I did have a little bit of problems with keeping the liner straight, did get a few punctures where I got unlucky, the liner was zigzagging and left a vulnerable exposed area near the center of the tread, so you gotta be careful and install them straight.

^^ I understand your logic! However cheaper tire wear out faster than medium priced tires while expensive tires wear out fast because they're for racing purposes. And cheaper tires have poorer rolling resistance than medium priced or high priced tires.

Today's technology with built in flat protection roll very well, while not as fast rolling as expensive fast wearing no flat protection racing tires but they still roll pretty darn good. Take for example the Vittoria Rubino Pro III you can get these for around $28 when on a moderate sale, even less at season end, and they perform within 1 watt of the Conti GP 4000S II that will cost you $20 more when on sale, yet the Rubino will give you just as good flat protection if not better and just as good wear.

Now neither of those tires are considered durable urban commute or (light) touring tire, for that kind of tire you need to do one of two things, either add another layer of protection with a liner or get a heavier tire which by the time you add a liner to a Conti GP or a Vittoria Rubino you haven't saved any weight but with a heavier tire you gain much longer wear and tougher sidewalls, but lose a bit of the ride quality which adding a plastic liner does anyways as does using additional watts which a plastic liner also does!

A cloth liner like the Panaracer FlatAway does not take away from the ride quality nor does it add any significant amount of watts because it weighs just 28 grams instead of almost 100 for a plastic liner...BUT, a Panaracer FlatAway liner is a one time use liner which a plastic liner can be used over and over. However since I use to use a Mr Tuffy in the Mojave Desert of California and had to deal with Goatheads I can tell you that a Goathead will penetrate that liner but would not penetrate a FlatAway. In fact I tried to drive a tack through a Mr Tuffy and had no problems, but try as hard as I could to get it to go through a FlatAway and I ended up bending the tack; when I had to trim the FlatAway I hurt my hands using the scissors to cut it while cutting the Mr Tuffy was like cutting butter. And the FlatAway liner sticks to the tire and not flop around while trying to install the tire and tube and then only hope it's in the right area, then hassle with it again when you get a flat. No thanks, I would rather spend a bit more money and get a real good flat liner.

After I said all of that I need to explain something. I only use the Panaracer FlatAway liner in the rear tire and not on the front because most flats occur on the rear, and I only use it on my commuter bike and my touring bike because I don't want to hassle with a flat on the way to work and I don't want to hassle with a flat on my touring bike because I have to remove the panniers not to mention the mechanicals which is time consuming and not something I want to waste time doing. The front of the either the commuter bike or touring bike I can fix a flat in 5 to 8 minutes (I don't use front panniers...yet).

I recently got Schwalbe Marathon tires from Chainreaction for $19.99 each. They have close to the highest puncture resistance, and close to the lowest rolling resistance for their size according to bicycle tire rolling resistance.
Schwalbe Marathon (GreenGuard) Rolling Resistance Review

Interesting, thx, I had only had experience with Mr TuffY (and it was good experience) but FlatAway does sound better. You should try reusing it though, just because it is sticky tape, seems like there should be no reason you couldn't rip it out and stick it in another tire. Sure, it may not stick as well as the first time, but I bet it would stick well enough to stay in place while inflating, and then the tube will stick it firmly in place eventually. There's a reviewer on amazon said he used the same liners for a decade with multiple tires.

I've never used any tire liners, and I went for about 3 years with only 1 flat while out riding. I generally don't ride in the gutter or near the edge of the road where junk accumulates. Then a few weeks ago I took my road bike commuter to the auto parts store, rode a mere 600 yards on a wide shoulder before getting to the store, and when I came out BAM, flat rear tire.

A week or two before that, I was commuting to work on my heavy utility bike, which was already taking a LONG time due to strong headwinds. Then I decided to get on a shoulder before turning in a neighborhood about a mile from the office, a different way than I normally go. Another 1/4 mile and my rear 1.5" tire was flat, and I stupidly had nothing with me to fix it that day.

I'm sure some tires can handle it, but generally shoulder riding is the devil. If I were in a position where I felt I had to regularly ride on a road shoulder I would probably go with something like Marathon Supreme tires before using tire liners.

I used to swear by them but in recent years have not felt the need to install them. I think it's as simple as "have I been getting a lot of unavoidable flats?" and if the answer is "yes" then they may be worth checking out.

Like I said earlier tires have evolved today to the point where most tires offer adequate flat protection, while they may not stop Goathead thorns but most people don't ride in those areas and those that do seem to find out what works like I did. But today's regular tires are a lot better at warding off flats then they were even just 10 years ago, and they'll probably get so much better over the next 10 to 15 years that liner companies will go out of business.

I think you are confusing rim strips with tire liners...

DOH! thanks ...

No liners; thought about it, but when I got a rear (of course) flat on my shiny new bike, just went ahead and got Specialized Hemisphere Armadillos. So far, so good.

What interested me was when I saw the stock tires that came on my Giant Rove Lite they were so thin and flimsy, I couldn't quite believe it. Are all mid-range bikes equipped with such cheap tires?

You sure you weren't mistaking "thin and flimsy" with folding bead tires? Folding bead tires can indeed appear flimsy while not mounted on a rim, as they can easily twist and fold up into a relatively small package. Wire bead tires always hold their round shape, but at the expense of weight. They're usually cheaper, also.

Beats me. The site says they're Giant S-RX4, 700x40. Here are the full specs on the bike.

Sorry, I'm a child of the 70's; all I knew about bikes was how to make them go and how to make them stop. I'm a bit better now, but still learning. :-)

I don't doubt this. Certain would explain my lack of flats in recent years. However, there is something to be said about the peace of mind offered by tire liners, especially for commuting/touring applications. Would have to do some math to see whether regular tires + liners weigh more or less than tires with heavy duty built-in flat protection.

"Thin and flimsy" tires mean lighter weight and better ride comfort/quality, generally at the cost of mileage and puncture protection.

My flats have gone down as well and I use lighter weight tires with little problems, but I don't commute on real trashy streets like NYC or Boston or LA, etc. if I did commutes in one of those areas I would find the best flat resistant tire I could. The thing about commuting you don't want to be late to work due to flats because you may get fired or told to drive a car in and not use the bike ever again. For me I run my own business so I can't fire myself! But for most people that isn't the case, they have a boss they have to make happy.

I think the toughest tire for most commuters and still be fairly light with good comfort is the new Specialized Armadillo Elite, it beats the Conti Gatorskin and the Bontrager Hardcase; see this for more info: Reviewed: All-new Specialized All Condition Armadillo Elite - VeloNews.com And for those that want a vitally undestructable tire the Schawlbe Marathon is the tire to go with.

Is it safe to assume you meant Marathon plus ? Regular Marathon tires have a slightly lower level of protection.

I forget they have the two types, yes the Plus one is the one I was referring too.

I have used tire liners on my road bike for years. One day I did get flat it was the tire liner at falt when I took my bike off the rim the liner end was folded over. It was a friction flat. I just had got my bike back from the shop to replace a spoke for that rim. The guys at the shop guys messed up the liner when they put it in. As long as you do buy the cheapest liners and get the good ones. The good ones don't evercost a lot. If you install it right you shouldn't have any issues.

My experience (Specialized Nimbus tires) was that liners moved me from a puncture every two weeks (1000 miles) to one per month. Schwalbe Marathon Plus and liners reduced my puncture rate to less than one per five years (10,000 plus miles). The goal was to have my bike reliability exceed my car reliability, and this was achieved.

Way more than two!

(And since that post, they've added Marathon GT365 and Marathon Cross, and maybe others)

I can understand wanting a tire liner to use with cheaper tires to get the same protection against flats as more expensive ones, but it seems to me that you'd be taking a double hit on rolling resistance and ride quality. Once from the cheaper tire and again for the liner itself.

The other thing that keeps crossing my mind, when someone says they've only had X flats in Y years with liners, while I don't doubt them how do you know that it's the liners that deserve credit? I've had fewer and fewer flats as I've moved away from flat-resistant tires. I basically have rare to no flats now, and it's not a consideration in my tire selection, so I have to believe that the change is due to other factors. I always wonder if someone removed his tire liners, if he might still have fewer flats.

I used them on my touring bike for a couple of seasons. Still had flats. I don't know how many they may have prevented, but I still had flats.

Marc

I have never used tire liners, but I haven't flatted since late 2006. I use Continental Sport Contact and Continental Touring Plus tires - a little more expensive. Continental is not the only company selling great flat-resistant rubber, either.

You are using tire liners...just not reusable ones. This is what the liner looks like after a small rock strike threads the worthless Continental touring tires



The red bit is the liner. A user installed liner works just as well, can out live many tires and doesn't cost all that much. I've been using them since the (echoy announcer voice) Dawn of History! and haven't had many problems with them. They work most of the time to prevent flats from goatheads