Noob question about lights
#26
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,171
Likes: 6,394
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
I have a B&M Ixon Core headlight, though I don't use it frequently. It has a shaped beam. I really like shaped beams. Beams from headlights tend to draw my eyes to the brightest spot. I think I suffer from that more than others do. If a headlight has a hot spot that is not far forward, I focus on it even when I need to see farther ahead. In other words, if there is a weak part of the beam and it is aiming where I need to see, I don't look into the weak part. This is a big problem for me. B&M's shaped beam is strongest at the farthest point where it cuts off drastically. This works extremely well for me. Not knowing much about how to engineer a light, I'm sure this was difficult to do, so I give them a lot of credit.
The higher I point the beam, the farther ahead I can see, but of course, this makes the beam dimmer, since spreading it over a greater area puts less energy on any given point. It is still quite easy to find the optimum angle for me. I aim it as far as I can while still being bright enough. If it's so dark that I wish it were brighter, all I need to do is slow down.
It would be nice if the beam were also wider but only if it didn't sacrifice brightness in the main part of the beam.
One problem with this light is that it comes with a rubber band mount which slips slightly. The center of gravity is slightly behind the mount point, so eventually, vibration tips the light up. I could correct this by weighting the back or using the optional clamping mount. I don't use the light often, so it doesn't matter much to me.
The construction is impressive, as is the battery life. The user interface is excellent, too. Every so often, the power button flashes. In high power mode, it flashes red; in low power mode, it flashes blue. It flashes a number of times corresponding to the charging state. When freshly charged, it flashes five times. When slightly discharged, if flashes four times, and so on, down to nearly completely discharged, when it flashes once.
Here is someone else's review of the light. It says that it charges with a mini-USB connector, but actually, it's a micro-USB. This is important, because micro-USB has the advantage of directing damage to the cable rather than the connector when there is wear or abuse.
The higher I point the beam, the farther ahead I can see, but of course, this makes the beam dimmer, since spreading it over a greater area puts less energy on any given point. It is still quite easy to find the optimum angle for me. I aim it as far as I can while still being bright enough. If it's so dark that I wish it were brighter, all I need to do is slow down.
It would be nice if the beam were also wider but only if it didn't sacrifice brightness in the main part of the beam.
One problem with this light is that it comes with a rubber band mount which slips slightly. The center of gravity is slightly behind the mount point, so eventually, vibration tips the light up. I could correct this by weighting the back or using the optional clamping mount. I don't use the light often, so it doesn't matter much to me.
The construction is impressive, as is the battery life. The user interface is excellent, too. Every so often, the power button flashes. In high power mode, it flashes red; in low power mode, it flashes blue. It flashes a number of times corresponding to the charging state. When freshly charged, it flashes five times. When slightly discharged, if flashes four times, and so on, down to nearly completely discharged, when it flashes once.
Here is someone else's review of the light. It says that it charges with a mini-USB connector, but actually, it's a micro-USB. This is important, because micro-USB has the advantage of directing damage to the cable rather than the connector when there is wear or abuse.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#28
GATC

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,839
Likes: 183
From: south Puget Sound
They are awesome. And required for cars. Required for bikes in Germany. So many people riding with weaponized flashers on the MUP where they truly don't need them. Their only goal, I can guess, is to induce epilepsy in oncoming traffic. Thanks guys. Hope you don't crash into my twitching body when I go down.
#30
If you own one of those Chinese 1 to 3 led bicycle lights. you can add a diffuser lens to have a cutoff beam. Need to measure the diameter to be sure the lens fits before ordering.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00RKP6GZG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475641326&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=bicycle+light+lens&dpPl=1&dpID=51iiL4DiA5L&ref=plSrch
It's a cheaper way to have a bright front light w/o blinding oncoming traffic or pedestrians. But with the diffuser/cutoff lens, you get a wider beam and lose a few lumens of light. Everything depends on your main night riding conditions, road/street or mtn/trail/unlit country roads. "Most" current front lights have the classic flashlight/torch light pattern/adjustments, so controlling that light can be problematic if you have to constantly adjust the beam up or down and/or zooming in or out.
Some mount 2 front lights, one with a cutoff beam (low beam) and turn on the other (high beam) if they want to see things above the horizon...tree branches, etc.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00RKP6GZG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475641326&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=bicycle+light+lens&dpPl=1&dpID=51iiL4DiA5L&ref=plSrch
It's a cheaper way to have a bright front light w/o blinding oncoming traffic or pedestrians. But with the diffuser/cutoff lens, you get a wider beam and lose a few lumens of light. Everything depends on your main night riding conditions, road/street or mtn/trail/unlit country roads. "Most" current front lights have the classic flashlight/torch light pattern/adjustments, so controlling that light can be problematic if you have to constantly adjust the beam up or down and/or zooming in or out.
Some mount 2 front lights, one with a cutoff beam (low beam) and turn on the other (high beam) if they want to see things above the horizon...tree branches, etc.
#31
Keepin it Wheel




Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,964
Likes: 5,224
From: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Yeah, I bought a magicshine clone from amazon, plus one of those diffuser lenses. Still too narrow of a beam for me. The diffuser turned an 18-inch spot into an 18x48 inch oval.
#32
Mad bike riding scientist




Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,152
Likes: 6,209
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Well this might be a dumb question, but how high is too high?
It's one of those small but long cylinder shaped lights, so then I worry if I point the light beam at the ground, can drivers still see it?
And I don't want it directly in front of me, I like to have it about ten feet in front of me so I can see any obstacles I might ride into, but maybe that's angled too high?
It's one of those small but long cylinder shaped lights, so then I worry if I point the light beam at the ground, can drivers still see it?
And I don't want it directly in front of me, I like to have it about ten feet in front of me so I can see any obstacles I might ride into, but maybe that's angled too high?
You don't want the light to shine straight down so that it is only inches in front of your wheel either since you want to see that stuff on, or in, the road before you hit it. That's a waste of your light as well.
As for being seen, if you have a light that is bright enough to light the ground, cars will see it.
This comes up over and over again. It doesn't matter how good your night vision is. If you are running lights or around lights at night, you don't have night vision. Your eyes are full of retinal...a form of vitamin A...that is sensitive to light and changes configuration when exposed to light. Your body makes it continually but if it is exposed to light, it just keeps changing configuration. Once the configuration is changed, it takes about 30 to 45 minutes to clear out of your system. Once the changed form of retinal is cleared from your system, you actually have "night vision" so you could walk across an open field without lights or see many more stars or navigate by the moon. But flick on a light and the whole process has to start over again.
But if you step out of a lighted building and turn on lights on a car or bike or street, you don't have "night vision"...good or otherwise.
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Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
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Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#33
Keepin it Wheel




Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,964
Likes: 5,224
From: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Generally speaking, if you can't see the center of your light beam about 2 carlengths ahead of you, the light is aimed too high. The primary reason that you run the light is to actually see where you are going so that you can avoid stuff on, or in, the road. If the light doesn't hit the road, you are wasting your light.
#34
Señior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,748
Likes: 10
From: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Center out two car lengths (25 feet?) seems a bit tight if you have descents. I want light more than 25 feet out if I hit 25 MPH on the horrible roads I'm on sometimes. I have situations where I can move to avoid a pothole, and be trapped in a converging V of potholes, if that happens with only 25 feet of warning, I will not be able to stop in time and I'm looking at between a pinch flat and a crash.
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#35
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 111
From: North of Boston
Bikes: Kona Dawg, Surly 1x1, Karate Monkey, Rockhopper, Crosscheck , Burley Runabout,
They are awesome. And required for cars. Required for bikes in Germany. So many people riding with weaponized flashers on the MUP where they truly don't need them. Their only goal, I can guess, is to induce epilepsy in oncoming traffic. Thanks guys. Hope you don't crash into my twitching body when I go down.
#36
Mad bike riding scientist




Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,152
Likes: 6,209
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Center out two car lengths (25 feet?) seems a bit tight if you have descents. I want light more than 25 feet out if I hit 25 MPH on the horrible roads I'm on sometimes. I have situations where I can move to avoid a pothole, and be trapped in a converging V of potholes, if that happens with only 25 feet of warning, I will not be able to stop in time and I'm looking at between a pinch flat and a crash.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#37
Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Headlights
[QUOTE=thunderseed;19035207]So, what's the best kind of light for night riding in town?
Cars set to a standard 2" drop at 25'.
Federal requirements state headlights to be 24-54" from the ground, 39" average.
A 2" drop from 39" would be average.
My bike handlebars are 40 & 42" high.
I set the top of my beam to 34" at 22', using duct tape marker the length from the garage door to my handlebar with the rear wheel against the wall. It throws the focal point to about 30'on the ground.
Cars set to a standard 2" drop at 25'.
Federal requirements state headlights to be 24-54" from the ground, 39" average.
A 2" drop from 39" would be average.
My bike handlebars are 40 & 42" high.
I set the top of my beam to 34" at 22', using duct tape marker the length from the garage door to my handlebar with the rear wheel against the wall. It throws the focal point to about 30'on the ground.
#38
Center out two car lengths (25 feet?) seems a bit tight if you have descents. I want light more than 25 feet out if I hit 25 MPH on the horrible roads I'm on sometimes. I have situations where I can move to avoid a pothole, and be trapped in a converging V of potholes, if that happens with only 25 feet of warning, I will not be able to stop in time and I'm looking at between a pinch flat and a crash.
If you can adjust your lights so that you're not blinding drivers or other bicycle riders (or pedestrians) and have enough throw to ride over 25 MPH then go for it. But consideration for others and not causing them to crash comes first. As well, no matter how good your lights you'll likely not be able to see animals or kids that might run in to your path.
#39
I agree, in most instances concerning bike lights, drivers are just complaining. I don't see them get their panties in a twist and reactionary over obnoxiously bright emergency vehicle lights, flashing neon road or commerce signs, Xenon driving lights, etc., all of which (including the standard vehicle low-beams) far outshine the majority of bike lights I've seen being used.
#40
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 8
So, what's the best kind of light for night riding in town?
I have this really powerful white headlight thingamajig, but when I was riding in the dark once I guess it shone in some drivers face and they were still quite a far ways and they honked at me so badly it nearly gave me a heart attack. I have been afraid to use it ever since.
I didn't want to turn it off then because I was on a very dangerous hill that has no bike lane and I also needed to see where i was going.
I think the light might be too bright though. Or maybe I had it pointed up too far so that it was blinding them? Any tips or advice you can give me?
Maybe that driver was just being a jerk?
I have this really powerful white headlight thingamajig, but when I was riding in the dark once I guess it shone in some drivers face and they were still quite a far ways and they honked at me so badly it nearly gave me a heart attack. I have been afraid to use it ever since.
I didn't want to turn it off then because I was on a very dangerous hill that has no bike lane and I also needed to see where i was going.
I think the light might be too bright though. Or maybe I had it pointed up too far so that it was blinding them? Any tips or advice you can give me?
Maybe that driver was just being a jerk?
Which town ? what traffic conditions , what time of day are you riding? How long are you on the bike?.
Go fast you need Bright lights , There is a Brightness competition amongst manufacturers
Seriously bright battery lights will need external batteries Or the run time will be short .
Hub Dynamo Lights are my favorite since I just get on, and start pedaling. LED dont even turn them off.
(though B&M & Schmidt put in light sensors and can do that by themselves , off day/ on in dark.
I wont rehash the brand favoritism. you can look that up. this forum has archives .
and a whole electronics and such gadgets section too.
Last edited by fietsbob; 01-09-17 at 02:29 PM.
#41
Senior Member


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,919
Likes: 1,260
They are awesome. And required for cars. Required for bikes in Germany. So many people riding with weaponized flashers on the MUP where they truly don't need them. Their only goal, I can guess, is to induce epilepsy in oncoming traffic. Thanks guys. Hope you don't crash into my twitching body when I go down.
More pertinent... how many seizures have you had on the MUP as a result of someone's front or rear strobe? A lot of money is spent designing those things so they DO NOT trigger seizures. You would have to be a truly exceptional case, and even then it would be difficult to prove it was the light that did it and not just that your body decided to seize for some other reason. Let it go. Flashers are here to stay. You are asking a lot of the average cyclist that they remember to shut down their flasher for the time that they are on the MUP and re-start them upon exiting.
If a driver seizes, even once, its surrender their license for two years, time. Period. Why should that be different for cyclists? Maybe because the chances of a cyclist causing grievous bodily injury to anyone else is low. The driver doesn't get to say "that's not fair, there are all these flashing lights and things... ...". Cyclists shouldn't either.
#43
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,171
Likes: 6,394
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
[MENTION=36008]Leisesturm[/MENTION], I agree that other people's epilepsy shouldn't be a big concern, but there is such a thing as using a light inconsiderately. Do you agree?
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#44
Senior Member


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,919
Likes: 1,260
@Leisesturm, I agree that other people's epilepsy shouldn't be a big concern, but there is such a thing as using a light inconsiderately. Do you agree?
#45
Senior Member


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,919
Likes: 1,260
Quite a few. Gosh I can rattle off a half dozen, all in a 2 mile circle. There are also the New Seasons' and Trader Joe's' too, but I didn't want to go there. We could be here all night listing the various entertainment, grocery, dining and other retail establishments of interest to Millenials.
#46
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,171
Likes: 6,394
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
I ride a bike route daily that functions for all practical purposes like an MUP, but without the peds! I see all manner of bike lighting coming towards me but tbh I can't say that any have blinded or offended me. The 4,000 lumen HID lamps in late model blinged out Japanese and European sedans, and worse, the lifted trucks with the HID's at head height! They take my breath away. I've been behind the odd cyclist with a real dazzler of a rear flasher, but I know my own PB Superflash is nothing like that. My MagicShine 808 is usually mounted on my helmet. I take pains to keep it out of people's eyes. I've never been flashed at. The odd ped has yelled in the past but really, MagicShine type intensity is no big deal these days. Five years ago, yes, they were ungodly bright, but in 2016, not so much.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
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