Well, they are. I agree that they have no business on a MUP at night but then I feel that bicycles...well not bicycles per say but lights in general...have no business on a MUP at night.

In my area many MUPs are closed at night anyway but people still use them. Pedestrians that are walking on the MUP without lights but under the benefit of "real" night vision are immediately plunged into darkness when exposed to any light...low intensity or otherwise. And it takes from 30 to 45 minutes for them to readapt their night vision to the level it was before. It may take 15 to 20 minutes to be able to see well enough to stumble along.

Even if you are running a light that puts out 50 lumens...which is really, really dim...you've ruined the night vision of someone who isn't using lights. More light doesn't change that equation, so I avoid using MUPs at night time. It's the courteous thing to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 19107268)

Personally for nighttime riding on my mostly well-illuminated suburban and urban roads, I prefer a flashing light at a low setting pointed at the road surface, and two flashing rear lights, for redundancy and dyssynchrony.

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Perhaps the Denver metro area is darker than other cities but I really doubt that based on my experiences in other parts of the US. That said, there are enough dark places on my commute to and from work along "lighted" streets, that having a "flashing light pointed...at the road surface" would mean that I'd have significant stretches of dark riding and pothole surprises.

On the other hand, if I'm riding in a well-illuminated area, I want to be noticed by the drivers. I'm not worried about their night vision...they don't have any...but I want to stand out against a sea of other light sources. I have no problem with confusing drivers into thinking that I'm another car or a truck or a train off the tracks. When I'm approaching them, I want them to think twice about how big this thing coming at them is and stop to think about pulling out in front of it.

It's kind of the puffer fish approach to riding at night so, yes, my lights are a kind of force shield.

y'know it's funny, I don't even really consider those to be close calls. I saw what they were doing way in advance and was ready for it. Not much bothers me anymore I guess.

This one here, this amazed me with the driver's idiocy:

FWIW, at night if someone does want some flashing, the Cygolite Metros (maybe others) have a steady+strobe mode which I think is pretty good. It's a bright steady light, on mine I think 500 lumens, with a 50 lumen very short pulse over the top. It is very attention getting without being irritating, and I can ride with it as my only light at night.

I generally don't use it much since the runtime is too short for my commute. I keep it on the bar in the summer to use as a daytime light in pure strobe mode, and in the winter as a backup light in case my main (cheap Chinese light, which is fantastic) fails. If I felt I was in a bad traffic situation I might use the Metro in strobe on top of the Chinese light.

On the bikes that have a switch on the dynamo light, I leave it on all the time. On others, such as my commuter bike, there isn't a switch, so if the front wheel is turning, the lights are on.

I don't think helmet-mounted lights are much help for making the rider visible at night. I see them only as a disembodied light that doesn't make sense. Not so bad in the daylight, though.

What I mean is that, because I don't ride at night, lights are a non-essential for me, based on the definition I've had of "non-essential" all along. Lately, I am more and more convinced that daytime lights are a good idea, but I'm not yet sure that they are "essential," like tires and brake pads.

There is NOTHING wrong with flashing lights during the day--or at night, too, if you're in a well lit area.

IMO best scenario is a good solid headlight, aimed correctly, paired with a blinky-non blinding front as well. On the rear, the same except red.

I too ride only in the daytime, but I have found these to be awesome little lights, especially considering they're rechargeable and inexpensive.

CLICK USB LIGHT SET

I hate flashing front lights and find them extremely annoying and distracting. For some strange reason, strobing lights seem to be popular among a small segment of riders that I encounter on the greenways, and all that they serve to do is annoy riders coming from the other direction. IMHO, front lights that pulse rather than strobe are a better option.

Light & Motion's Urban series of lights are a good option for a daytime running light, and they have a setting that pulses rather than strobes. Biketiresdirect.com has a number of L&M lights on sale right now. I also have a L&M Viz 360 on my helmet, and it's a great backup or supplemental light for commuting, but oddly it strobes rather than pulses when in flash mode. I rarely ever run it on flash mode.

I ride these during the day:

Bicycle 3 LED Front Rear Tail Warning USB Light Rechargeable White Lamp | eBay

Tail Red Rear Safety Bicycle Cycling NEW Warning Light Bike USB Rechargeable

Bright enough to be seen without blinding anyone.

I have had more than one driver tell me these made it much easier for them to notice me on the road...

Using a helmet light with a handlebar mounted light makes more sense.

There is a category of riders who have been using headlights during the day since very long ago. I am talking about motocyclists. They needed that to be identified as oncoming trafic in spite of their (relatively) small dimensions. Have you ever seen one of them using blinkies ?

If you want to be identified as a fast approaching vehicle claiming its right of way, use a steady headlight.
If you want to be identified, in the first tenths of a second, as en enigma, and then only as a (slow) bicycle , use a blinking headlight. Blinking light doesn't help understanding the speed of the approaching object. Quite the opposite, actually.

Yikes. I had a ride like that several weeks ago, with about half a dozen near-collision passes. But it was in daylight. Most drivers went out of their way to avoid crowding me, but in so doing some exposed themselves and oncoming vehicles to extraordinary risks. And it wasn't necessary. In every case they could have passed safely by just waiting a few more seconds.

Motorcycles are much wider than most bicycles and easier to identify at a distance, even in a wide angle rear view mirror.

At a distance on the MUP I often find it difficult to tell whether an oncoming person is a jogger or a slow bicyclist. From hundreds of yards away the bike is very difficult to spot, unless it's the bulky city bikes with baskets. And in my wide angle rear view mirror it's even more difficult to tell the difference between a jogger/pedestrian and a cyclist, especially on a road bike. I have to glance in the mirror a couple of times to get a sense of their approach speed or whether I'm putting more distance between myself and whatever's in my mirror. And I have very good distance vision (although I need reading glasses for anything within arm's length).

Also, some motorcycles use paired lights, especially on the back. Makes it much easier for drivers to estimate distance and speed of the narrower vehicles. That's why I use paired lights on my bicycle. I use helmet lights, front and rear, and bike-mounted lights. I recorded some nighttime videos of myself riding away from and toward the camera and it was much easier to estimate my distance and speed with the paired lights. At a glance two or more visual reference points are easier to determine divergence/convergence.

The problem with the 'don't use hi beams' argument is that close to zero percent of walkers, and at least half of all cyclists, don't use lights or reflective clothing at all at night. Even at the highest settings, with two headlights AND abundant trail lighting, cyclists and walkers are often difficult to spot until they are within, say 10 or 15 feet as a result.

Many trail users wander into the opposite lane, stop in the middle of the lane, and there is a large homeless population who camp near the trails who pay no attention to where they are or what's going on.

Hmmm, good point.

Lots of cars have day time running lights now too - day time lights are required going through many tunnels and in some special geographical areas. Imagine how annoying and dangerous it would be if EVERYBODY had flashing headlights.

my observation when driving is that flashing lights on bikes are far more visible than steady lights day or night. I want to be visible so I use flashing red blinkies in the back and bright (360 or so lumen) flashing white in the front.

I do use a MUP on the way home at times, and once I had a guy complain about my bright light....it was a bit situational I was going uphill so the beam aim caught him differently than it would on the flat. Hoever, I had very little sympathy for the guy.....he was using the MUP as a personal race track, was passing some on too fast on a narrow section and was directly in front of me...I braked.

Wow! I had some reservations about starting this thread, but now I'm glad I did. Initially, I thought flashing daytime lights, front and rear, were the new norm for cyclists - especially commuters. But the differing views posted here have been a real eye-opener.

I, personally, still believe that a blinking headlight is much more noticeable than a static one. Often, when I see a solid bright light on the road during the day, I am convinced that it's just a piece of metal reflecting the sun, so I ignore it. But the first few times I saw blinking headlights on bicycles, I could not take my eyes off them, and somehow I was able to easily determine what direction they were moving and how fast. Several people have tried to convince me I am wrong about that, but I know what I saw.

On the other hand, I am an obsessively "polite" cyclist, who will go out of my way not to confuse, upset, or piss off other cyclists, pedestrians, or drivers, so I do not take the comments from people who dislike blinking headlights lightly.

Keep the replies coming, folks. This is a good discussion.

I think that people are annoyed by flashing lights if they're determined to be annoyed. When I've seen flashing lights coming towards me, I treat them the same as car headlights. I just don't look at them, and they don't really bother me.

If I had decided that they were annoying, I guess I'd stare at them and be irritated by them.

This is what you don't want. There's a basic instinct to move in the direction you look. Do you want either pedestrians, joggers, or cyclists to start steering towards you? Granted, it's only a momentary reflex, and easily overridden, but it seems to me that this might not be a good idea.

Many years ago, I took the motorcycle safety course, and the instructors were very against the 'common' belief that 'loud pipes save lives'. First day of class was how to turn, and the basic, very simple rule was 'look where you want to go, and the bike will follow'. Loud pipes, they said, tend to cause drivers to steer toward the sound, not away.

If the same principle applies, then by attracting your attention to the point that 'you could not take your eyes off', then the automatic reflex is to start steering slightly in that direction.

My gut reaction is that blinking lights are probably a bad idea, as a general rule. Right now, I DO use them in the daytime, because part of my commute is through a wooded MUP that is narrowed by untrimmed growth, and is not straight. A flashing light gives some warning to oncoming dog walkers, and the rare cyclist. I've been using a blinking rear light, but am rethinking that. Part of my evening commute involves pretty bad solar glare, on an urban street, and I feel vulnerable.

from canklekat:

This makes so much sense, that if I continue commuting much longer, where I am doing nighttime riding, I may have to double my light budget (or more, I am currently using inexpensive, AAA-based lights, and have a $20 USB light on order. I may need more, better lighting all around)

I've had several occasions that people don't see a flashing light at night. The split second the light is off was the split second I was in their sight. Since bicycle has a very thin profile, easily blocked by land posts, or windshield frame. One guy even stopped and asked my why I didn't turn my lights on when approaching the intersection, said he saw me too late. I showed him my light and said it was flashing all the time.

Flashing lights also make it hard for drivers to judge speed and direction of your movement.

I wrote an article here about bicycle lights:
Bicycle lights

It explains differences between being seen and being noticed.
Effectiveness of reflective materials.
Dangers of poor light positioning, beam alignment and brightness.

Cool stuff in that article. Especially the explanation of how the angles of a bike and a vehicle on a hill can render a rear reflector useless.

No lights on MUP except solid, pointed down, when it is dark

On the street, I like a flashing headlight in the daytime. A bright flashing light, pointed down, allows you to be seen and does not "freeze" drivers.

Sure, but we're not talking about night lighting, this thread is about daytime lighting.

At night, I MIGHT run a strobe, but only in addition to a bright steady light. On the route I ride, if I turn my lights off, I literally can not see my hand in front of my face. I once lost my front light about 2 miles from home and I couldn't even really walk the bike. Since there is essentially traffic there at night, I took my taillight off, put it in steady mode and rode home slowly with that held in my hand. One car did come, when it got close I pulled over and stopped and pointed the taillight at him until he passed.

Yes, but the point of the post was the short amount of time you are in driver's focus. So a flashing front light, without a steady one can be useless.

Your peripheral vision is much better at detecting movement/motion. This is the reason a flashing light catches a driver's attention. In day time riding this is far superior to a steady one because the issue of judging distance isn't so relevant.